Ideas for upcoming trip - bike issues!
Discussion
Morning all,
Not entirely sure on the reason for this post other than perhaps a rant and ideas sharing, or at the least you can enjoy my misfortune.
I'll try and add all info so it's going to be a long post.
I have an upcoming trip (I leave this Friday) to Scotland with a couple of friends and I didn't have a suitable bike so decided to buy one. Key buying points were to have hard luggage and be comfortable without being too slow.
Settled about 6 weeks ago on a BMW F800gs - bike is on approx 58k miles but a good load of history, all the right bits and bobs and seemed fine on the test ride so a deal (from a private seller) was done.
On my first trip out the bike was misbehaving slightly, it'd cut out when you clutch in changing down gears or when pulling up at a junction. Lots of research later and people online suggested a fuel pump.
Fast forward to now and after tons of research the bike has had the following work;
- Fuel pump replaced for a (recommended from another f800 owner) to a "fuel performance quantum" fuel pump. https://www.fuelperformance.co.uk/index.php?route=...
- Fuel pump controller, aka FPC (a little widget that varies the fuel pump between 80-100% voltage to alter the fuel flow) bypassed as they are a known failure point
- TPS cleaned and reset
- Idle actuator cleaned and reset
- Idle control hoses replaced as old ones were perished
- Sent to a dealer for diagnostic - cleared faults on air temp sensor and air pressure sensor. Fuel pump was showing faulty also
- refitted old fuel pump - noticed when doing so my bypass of the FPC wasn't brilliant, re-did the job properly. No change
- refitted replacement fuel pump and cleaned out the filter at the same time, drained tank and wiped down the inside as it had some residue too.
- Checked and charged battery. Checked charging system. All ok
The problem persists.
The exact problem only starts when the bike has warmed up and gone off the cold start sequence, i.e. been running for 5-10mins or so which is why I think I didn't notice it during my test ride.
The bike starts, runs and then when warm, the idle becomes more erratic and occasionally the bike will stall. If you blip the throttle, once you have closed the throttle and the revs drop, the bike will stall. Again if riding and you go to a closed throttle, the bike will stall but it 95% of the time, will instantly restart at the first push of the button.
You can hold the revs at a constant 2000rpm+ and it'll run. Close the throttle, it'll stall.
So now i'm 4 days away from leaving - have a 3k bike that I can't really use right now. I have a wedding to go to on Thursday and the bike can't go back into the garage who did the diagnostic test until 10am Friday morning...
I've just ordered a replacement fuel pump controller in case that is the issue (having bypassed it) and I'm about to contact the fuel perfomance folk to see if they can send a replacement fuel pump to see if it's a faulty one (due to the dealer saying the fuel pump was throwing a fault).
My options as I see them are;
- Throw money at the BMW in the hope I fix it in time but it'll be close
- Take my old CB500 with soft luggage - but I really don't want to do this as it's not comfortable long distance and not very fast so keeping up with a VFR750 and Triumph Sprint is going to mean ringing it's neck all the time.
- Buy another used bike and hope it's not a turd and I can take that - I don't really want to do this
- Buy a brand new bike and take the loss of reselling quickly - pros are I'm almost guaranteed no faults. Cons are cost
- Rent a bike - dead money.
Anything I'm missing? I'd welcome any input as it's really starting to annoy me...and yes it is all my fault really but I can't change it now!
TL;DR
I bought a bike for a trip I can't use and now I'm stressed about what to do and I think I'm about to spend a ton of money I don't have.
Not entirely sure on the reason for this post other than perhaps a rant and ideas sharing, or at the least you can enjoy my misfortune.
I'll try and add all info so it's going to be a long post.
I have an upcoming trip (I leave this Friday) to Scotland with a couple of friends and I didn't have a suitable bike so decided to buy one. Key buying points were to have hard luggage and be comfortable without being too slow.
Settled about 6 weeks ago on a BMW F800gs - bike is on approx 58k miles but a good load of history, all the right bits and bobs and seemed fine on the test ride so a deal (from a private seller) was done.
On my first trip out the bike was misbehaving slightly, it'd cut out when you clutch in changing down gears or when pulling up at a junction. Lots of research later and people online suggested a fuel pump.
Fast forward to now and after tons of research the bike has had the following work;
- Fuel pump replaced for a (recommended from another f800 owner) to a "fuel performance quantum" fuel pump. https://www.fuelperformance.co.uk/index.php?route=...
- Fuel pump controller, aka FPC (a little widget that varies the fuel pump between 80-100% voltage to alter the fuel flow) bypassed as they are a known failure point
- TPS cleaned and reset
- Idle actuator cleaned and reset
- Idle control hoses replaced as old ones were perished
- Sent to a dealer for diagnostic - cleared faults on air temp sensor and air pressure sensor. Fuel pump was showing faulty also
- refitted old fuel pump - noticed when doing so my bypass of the FPC wasn't brilliant, re-did the job properly. No change
- refitted replacement fuel pump and cleaned out the filter at the same time, drained tank and wiped down the inside as it had some residue too.
- Checked and charged battery. Checked charging system. All ok
The problem persists.
The exact problem only starts when the bike has warmed up and gone off the cold start sequence, i.e. been running for 5-10mins or so which is why I think I didn't notice it during my test ride.
The bike starts, runs and then when warm, the idle becomes more erratic and occasionally the bike will stall. If you blip the throttle, once you have closed the throttle and the revs drop, the bike will stall. Again if riding and you go to a closed throttle, the bike will stall but it 95% of the time, will instantly restart at the first push of the button.
You can hold the revs at a constant 2000rpm+ and it'll run. Close the throttle, it'll stall.
So now i'm 4 days away from leaving - have a 3k bike that I can't really use right now. I have a wedding to go to on Thursday and the bike can't go back into the garage who did the diagnostic test until 10am Friday morning...
I've just ordered a replacement fuel pump controller in case that is the issue (having bypassed it) and I'm about to contact the fuel perfomance folk to see if they can send a replacement fuel pump to see if it's a faulty one (due to the dealer saying the fuel pump was throwing a fault).
My options as I see them are;
- Throw money at the BMW in the hope I fix it in time but it'll be close
- Take my old CB500 with soft luggage - but I really don't want to do this as it's not comfortable long distance and not very fast so keeping up with a VFR750 and Triumph Sprint is going to mean ringing it's neck all the time.
- Buy another used bike and hope it's not a turd and I can take that - I don't really want to do this
- Buy a brand new bike and take the loss of reselling quickly - pros are I'm almost guaranteed no faults. Cons are cost
- Rent a bike - dead money.
Anything I'm missing? I'd welcome any input as it's really starting to annoy me...and yes it is all my fault really but I can't change it now!
TL;DR
I bought a bike for a trip I can't use and now I'm stressed about what to do and I think I'm about to spend a ton of money I don't have.
With the symptoms you've mentioned, as you've tried the idle control valve/actuator my next suggestion would be coil packs. My dad used to have a BMW R1100S which would struggle to idle and stall at junctions etc. once it had warmed up, as far as I can remember it turned out to be the coil packs breaking down in one or both of the cylinders at any one time.
Genuine ones are about £90 each, you could buy one and swap it beween the cylinders to see if that narrows it down to one that's failed or try replacing both at the same time - it might fix it, or you might have thrown a bit more cash into the fire.
Sounds like a frustrating situation, hope you get it sorted in time!
Genuine ones are about £90 each, you could buy one and swap it beween the cylinders to see if that narrows it down to one that's failed or try replacing both at the same time - it might fix it, or you might have thrown a bit more cash into the fire.
Sounds like a frustrating situation, hope you get it sorted in time!
FSEngineer said:
With the symptoms you've mentioned, as you've tried the idle control valve/actuator my next suggestion would be coil packs. My dad used to have a BMW R1100S which would struggle to idle and stall at junctions etc. once it had warmed up, as far as I can remember it turned out to be the coil packs breaking down in one or both of the cylinders at any one time.
Genuine ones are about £90 each, you could buy one and swap it between the cylinders to see if that narrows it down to one that's failed or try replacing both at the same time - it might fix it, or you might have thrown a bit more cash into the fire.
Sounds like a frustrating situation, hope you get it sorted in time!
interesting point... the BMW tech did mention coil packs too and said they cause low speed running issues on these. I would have thought (hoped) it would show up as a fault during his test though. Genuine ones are about £90 each, you could buy one and swap it between the cylinders to see if that narrows it down to one that's failed or try replacing both at the same time - it might fix it, or you might have thrown a bit more cash into the fire.
Sounds like a frustrating situation, hope you get it sorted in time!
Good point through and something I'll consider and see how long it takes to get a couple of coil packs...
Ilikemotorbikes said:
interesting point... the BMW tech did mention coil packs too and said they cause low speed running issues on these. I would have thought (hoped) it would show up as a fault during his test though.
Good point through and something I'll consider and see how long it takes to get a couple of coil packs...
They're a bit of a tricky thing to diagnose unless you have a known good one to swap in and see if it fixes it. Good point through and something I'll consider and see how long it takes to get a couple of coil packs...
Motorworks should be able to get them to you on next day delivery if the dealer can't lay their hands on them, if you give them a call they're very helpful in my experience.
FSEngineer said:
Ilikemotorbikes said:
interesting point... the BMW tech did mention coil packs too and said they cause low speed running issues on these. I would have thought (hoped) it would show up as a fault during his test though.
Good point through and something I'll consider and see how long it takes to get a couple of coil packs...
They're a bit of a tricky thing to diagnose unless you have a known good one to swap in and see if it fixes it. Good point through and something I'll consider and see how long it takes to get a couple of coil packs...
Motorworks should be able to get them to you on next day delivery if the dealer can't lay their hands on them, if you give them a call they're very helpful in my experience.
Just to add, if you're doing the coils it would be worth putting new plugs in at the same time and making sure they're gapped correctly - old/dirty plugs will put more load on the coils and could cause them to fail faster.
It sounds like you've more or less exhausted the fuel and air supply routes so hopefully getting the spark sorted will do it!
edit: also make sure the throttle bodies are balanced, although I'd hope that BMW would have already done this as one of their first steps.
It sounds like you've more or less exhausted the fuel and air supply routes so hopefully getting the spark sorted will do it!
edit: also make sure the throttle bodies are balanced, although I'd hope that BMW would have already done this as one of their first steps.
Nothing constructive to add and feel your pain… a little anecdote to hopefully make you feel better.
1996’sh…getting ready for the annual Buffalo Rally, circa 1000km ride each way. Spent a good week going over my bike , a 1981 Kawasaki Z1100 shaft drive. My mate riding down with me had a 1982 Z1000r Lawson rep, he had just spent an absolute fortune on it with new tyres, chain & sprockets, service and all usual maintenance before such a trip.
2 days before leaving he rings me in a panic… the bikes just been nicked and he heard the ripping away from his house flat out. That was the end of his trip, so he thought ! Another close friend had a Z750 stripped down for a resto in boxes, stripped to a bare frame, carbs all stripped and bagged up, top end of engine stripped and just thrown in a box. I raced over to him and made him a fair offer for the lot, threw it in my van and immediately started the ‘project’
Many beers later the z750 doggo special was running and my mate couldn’t believe when I said I had a bike for him to ride down on. The needle and seats were worn and fuel tap diaphragm was knackered so everytime we stopped we had to lift the 750’s tank off . The Z750 was finished about an hour before we were due to leave so there was a mad rush to get packed and sorted.
When I picked my mate up I asked the all important question, “have you got your ticket”. Yes it’s in my bag came the reply…. Well first fuel stop around 180km’s away and what does old ballbag discover, yup, the t
t forgot his fking ticket !!! As my bike was far better mechanically than his doggo special he jumped on the back of mine and we flew back the 180k’s to his for his ticket and then back to the petrol station where we had abandoned the 750.
Bizarrely enough the old dog made it there and back with very little in the way of hiccups, my ultra mint Z1100, decided to spit a couple of cam caps out when we arrived on day one. A quick bush repair of hammering the bolts flat and winding them back in did the job and the Z1100 made the trip back to base.
What an adventure that all turned out to be ! Couple of young lads on some redneck repaired bikes covering 1000 Kim’s, getting smashed off our tits for 4 days and then ridding our battered bikes a 1000 km’s home.
Oh, and the Lawson that got stolen, we stole it back !!! Ride past a bike shop a month later that was known to favour the ‘warmer’ bikes and there it was parked outside featuring a brand new shiny paint job. Bike was 100% the right one, we phoned police who asked if we had the key still. After a brief discussion their advice was it was our bike and we had the keys so just starting up and ride it home, and that’s exactly what we did
Gotta love being young idiots
Good luck with your adventures and I hope it all pans out with your bike.
1996’sh…getting ready for the annual Buffalo Rally, circa 1000km ride each way. Spent a good week going over my bike , a 1981 Kawasaki Z1100 shaft drive. My mate riding down with me had a 1982 Z1000r Lawson rep, he had just spent an absolute fortune on it with new tyres, chain & sprockets, service and all usual maintenance before such a trip.
2 days before leaving he rings me in a panic… the bikes just been nicked and he heard the ripping away from his house flat out. That was the end of his trip, so he thought ! Another close friend had a Z750 stripped down for a resto in boxes, stripped to a bare frame, carbs all stripped and bagged up, top end of engine stripped and just thrown in a box. I raced over to him and made him a fair offer for the lot, threw it in my van and immediately started the ‘project’
Many beers later the z750 doggo special was running and my mate couldn’t believe when I said I had a bike for him to ride down on. The needle and seats were worn and fuel tap diaphragm was knackered so everytime we stopped we had to lift the 750’s tank off . The Z750 was finished about an hour before we were due to leave so there was a mad rush to get packed and sorted.
When I picked my mate up I asked the all important question, “have you got your ticket”. Yes it’s in my bag came the reply…. Well first fuel stop around 180km’s away and what does old ballbag discover, yup, the t
t forgot his fking ticket !!! As my bike was far better mechanically than his doggo special he jumped on the back of mine and we flew back the 180k’s to his for his ticket and then back to the petrol station where we had abandoned the 750. Bizarrely enough the old dog made it there and back with very little in the way of hiccups, my ultra mint Z1100, decided to spit a couple of cam caps out when we arrived on day one. A quick bush repair of hammering the bolts flat and winding them back in did the job and the Z1100 made the trip back to base.
What an adventure that all turned out to be ! Couple of young lads on some redneck repaired bikes covering 1000 Kim’s, getting smashed off our tits for 4 days and then ridding our battered bikes a 1000 km’s home.
Oh, and the Lawson that got stolen, we stole it back !!! Ride past a bike shop a month later that was known to favour the ‘warmer’ bikes and there it was parked outside featuring a brand new shiny paint job. Bike was 100% the right one, we phoned police who asked if we had the key still. After a brief discussion their advice was it was our bike and we had the keys so just starting up and ride it home, and that’s exactly what we did
Gotta love being young idiots
Good luck with your adventures and I hope it all pans out with your bike.
fastbikes76 said:
Nothing constructive to add and feel your pain… a little anecdote to hopefully make you feel better.
1996’sh…getting ready for the annual Buffalo Rally, circa 1000km ride each way. Spent a good week going over my bike , a 1981 Kawasaki Z1100 shaft drive. My mate riding down with me had a 1982 Z1000r Lawson rep, he had just spent an absolute fortune on it with new tyres, chain & sprockets, service and all usual maintenance before such a trip.
2 days before leaving he rings me in a panic… the bikes just been nicked and he heard the ripping away from his house flat out. That was the end of his trip, so he thought ! Another close friend had a Z750 stripped down for a resto in boxes, stripped to a bare frame, carbs all stripped and bagged up, top end of engine stripped and just thrown in a box. I raced over to him and made him a fair offer for the lot, threw it in my van and immediately started the ‘project’
Many beers later the z750 doggo special was running and my mate couldn’t believe when I said I had a bike for him to ride down on. The needle and seats were worn and fuel tap diaphragm was knackered so everytime we stopped we had to lift the 750’s tank off . The Z750 was finished about an hour before we were due to leave so there was a mad rush to get packed and sorted.
When I picked my mate up I asked the all important question, “have you got your ticket”. Yes it’s in my bag came the reply…. Well first fuel stop around 180km’s away and what does old ballbag discover, yup, the tt forgot his fking ticket !!! As my bike was far better mechanically than his doggo special he jumped on the back of mine and we flew back the 180k’s to his for his ticket and then back to the petrol station where we had abandoned the 750.
Bizarrely enough the old dog made it there and back with very little in the way of hiccups, my ultra mint Z1100, decided to spit a couple of cam caps out when we arrived on day one. A quick bush repair of hammering the bolts flat and winding them back in did the job and the Z1100 made the trip back to base.
What an adventure that all turned out to be ! Couple of young lads on some redneck repaired bikes covering 1000 Kim’s, getting smashed off our tits for 4 days and then ridding our battered bikes a 1000 km’s home.
Oh, and the Lawson that got stolen, we stole it back !!! Ride past a bike shop a month later that was known to favour the ‘warmer’ bikes and there it was parked outside featuring a brand new shiny paint job. Bike was 100% the right one, we phoned police who asked if we had the key still. After a brief discussion their advice was it was our bike and we had the keys so just starting up and ride it home, and that’s exactly what we did
Gotta love being young idiots
Good luck with your adventures and I hope it all pans out with your bike.
Epic! Glad the stolen bike was reacquired.1996’sh…getting ready for the annual Buffalo Rally, circa 1000km ride each way. Spent a good week going over my bike , a 1981 Kawasaki Z1100 shaft drive. My mate riding down with me had a 1982 Z1000r Lawson rep, he had just spent an absolute fortune on it with new tyres, chain & sprockets, service and all usual maintenance before such a trip.
2 days before leaving he rings me in a panic… the bikes just been nicked and he heard the ripping away from his house flat out. That was the end of his trip, so he thought ! Another close friend had a Z750 stripped down for a resto in boxes, stripped to a bare frame, carbs all stripped and bagged up, top end of engine stripped and just thrown in a box. I raced over to him and made him a fair offer for the lot, threw it in my van and immediately started the ‘project’
Many beers later the z750 doggo special was running and my mate couldn’t believe when I said I had a bike for him to ride down on. The needle and seats were worn and fuel tap diaphragm was knackered so everytime we stopped we had to lift the 750’s tank off . The Z750 was finished about an hour before we were due to leave so there was a mad rush to get packed and sorted.
When I picked my mate up I asked the all important question, “have you got your ticket”. Yes it’s in my bag came the reply…. Well first fuel stop around 180km’s away and what does old ballbag discover, yup, the t
t forgot his fking ticket !!! As my bike was far better mechanically than his doggo special he jumped on the back of mine and we flew back the 180k’s to his for his ticket and then back to the petrol station where we had abandoned the 750. Bizarrely enough the old dog made it there and back with very little in the way of hiccups, my ultra mint Z1100, decided to spit a couple of cam caps out when we arrived on day one. A quick bush repair of hammering the bolts flat and winding them back in did the job and the Z1100 made the trip back to base.
What an adventure that all turned out to be ! Couple of young lads on some redneck repaired bikes covering 1000 Kim’s, getting smashed off our tits for 4 days and then ridding our battered bikes a 1000 km’s home.
Oh, and the Lawson that got stolen, we stole it back !!! Ride past a bike shop a month later that was known to favour the ‘warmer’ bikes and there it was parked outside featuring a brand new shiny paint job. Bike was 100% the right one, we phoned police who asked if we had the key still. After a brief discussion their advice was it was our bike and we had the keys so just starting up and ride it home, and that’s exactly what we did
Gotta love being young idiots
Good luck with your adventures and I hope it all pans out with your bike.
I managed to recently buy a bike on credit card after being approved for virgin money 1.2% balance transfer over 29 months.
street triple £7000 balance on card - That is costing £72 ish monthly. Then I will have option of selling the bike if needs be at end of 29 months like a diy pcp deal. Only cheaper by my reckoning.
This prob would only work if you have time to get approved and use an old card in the meanwhile.
Edit: didn’t see you probably past the deadline point by now since monday…
street triple £7000 balance on card - That is costing £72 ish monthly. Then I will have option of selling the bike if needs be at end of 29 months like a diy pcp deal. Only cheaper by my reckoning.
This prob would only work if you have time to get approved and use an old card in the meanwhile.
Edit: didn’t see you probably past the deadline point by now since monday…
Edited by vindaloo79 on Wednesday 18th August 13:03
FSEngineer said:
With the symptoms you've mentioned, as you've tried the idle control valve/actuator my next suggestion would be coil packs. My dad used to have a BMW R1100S which would struggle to idle and stall at junctions etc. once it had warmed up, as far as I can remember it turned out to be the coil packs breaking down in one or both of the cylinders at any one time.
Genuine ones are about £90 each, you could buy one and swap it beween the cylinders to see if that narrows it down to one that's failed or try replacing both at the same time - it might fix it, or you might have thrown a bit more cash into the fire.
Sounds like a frustrating situation, hope you get it sorted in time!
It does sound very much coil/plug to me - they break down when hot as the resistance changes. That’d have been the first thing I’d have checked tbh. Genuine ones are about £90 each, you could buy one and swap it beween the cylinders to see if that narrows it down to one that's failed or try replacing both at the same time - it might fix it, or you might have thrown a bit more cash into the fire.
Sounds like a frustrating situation, hope you get it sorted in time!
Awesome story fastbikes, glad it had a happy ending!
Update to the bike -
Coil packs arrived - changed and no different.
Then I changed the fuel pump controller (previously I'd just bypassed it) then left the bike to idle for 15 mins - allegedly this helps reset the bike.
After that I did my usual method of blipping the throttle and it wouldn't die. Short road test yesterday after work and I can't replicate the fault!! It seems like it is cured so fingers crossed.
I'm at a wedding today, then tomorrow, through a hangover, I have to pack and get ready to leave. Here is the bike with luggage thrown on to make sure I can actually get on it!
Excuse the messy garage in the backgound. I have about 4 projects on the go as well as trying to sort the BM!
Totally unrelated
does anyone have breakdown cover recommendations 
Update to the bike -
Coil packs arrived - changed and no different.
Then I changed the fuel pump controller (previously I'd just bypassed it) then left the bike to idle for 15 mins - allegedly this helps reset the bike.
After that I did my usual method of blipping the throttle and it wouldn't die. Short road test yesterday after work and I can't replicate the fault!! It seems like it is cured so fingers crossed.
I'm at a wedding today, then tomorrow, through a hangover, I have to pack and get ready to leave. Here is the bike with luggage thrown on to make sure I can actually get on it!
Excuse the messy garage in the backgound. I have about 4 projects on the go as well as trying to sort the BM!
Totally unrelated
does anyone have breakdown cover recommendations Ilikemotorbikes said:
Awesome story fastbikes, glad it had a happy ending!
Coil packs arrived - changed and no different.
Then I changed the fuel pump controller (previously I'd just bypassed it) then left the bike to idle for 15 mins - allegedly this helps reset the bike.
After that I did my usual method of blipping the throttle and it wouldn't die. Short road test yesterday after work and I can't replicate the fault!! It seems like it is cured so fingers crossed.
...
Totally unrelated does anyone have breakdown cover recommendations
Shame the coils didn't fix it, glad to hear it's sorted though!Coil packs arrived - changed and no different.
Then I changed the fuel pump controller (previously I'd just bypassed it) then left the bike to idle for 15 mins - allegedly this helps reset the bike.
After that I did my usual method of blipping the throttle and it wouldn't die. Short road test yesterday after work and I can't replicate the fault!! It seems like it is cured so fingers crossed.
...
Totally unrelated
does anyone have breakdown cover recommendations For breakdown cover I use Autoaid as they're really good value for money and will just send the nearest local recovery firm rather than needing to wait hours for a yellow/orange van to turn up, although I've not needed to use them in anger for a few years...
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