Discussion
I keep reading about chain/swingarm interface on the 1299 on particular. Not sure if that is forum lore or reality, but may have affected prices. Also the 1198 is the last of the old school, whereas a 1299 looks similar to a V4, but the V4 is more evolved in most respects. Whereas the 1*98 is a completely different proposition. I would go for an 1198s or 1098R personally. A lot of people say the 1299 didn't move the game on much from the 1199.
I've seen pictures where the chain has gouged lumps out of 1299 swingarms. And read that in some cases Ducati weren't interested in fixing it. Also read about electrical issues, but on the whole it seems less goes wrong? Plus, from what I've read the 1299 is nicer to ride and has more go than the 1199.
Edited by blade7 on Friday 30th April 12:26
I'm maybe slightly biased as I swapped my Wing for a 1299 last week. I've had both before though.
But the 1299 is far better than an 1198 in so many ways. The engine is a massive step forwards. The chassis is a lot better. It also revs out a lot harder.
No comparison tbh other than apparently market value.
But the 1299 is far better than an 1198 in so many ways. The engine is a massive step forwards. The chassis is a lot better. It also revs out a lot harder.
No comparison tbh other than apparently market value.
To qualify the price similarity, I was comparing a 1198S with a base 1299. I have read the 1198 Ohlinn is budget stuff, though whether it's better than the base 1299 shocks, who knows. I expect the forged wheels would be lighter though. I have read that quite a lot of 1*98 gearboxes get stuffed by a quickshifter. Not something I've heard about the 1299. Did Ducati sort most of the 1*98 weaknesses for the Panigale.
Essentially, i would precis it this way, having owned 3 of the bikes concerned and ridden the other. (1098/1198/1199/1299).
The 1098 was a breath of fresh air, getting Ducati back on track so to speak and a lovely bike, albeit compromised by the usual race bike-like downsides compared to say, a Fireblade.
The 1198 had monstrous mid range that would often lift the front wheel when you were least expecting it, a grunt meister of an engine. Great bike of course.
The 1199 i would describe as unhinged, the 'no-frame' design seemingly rushed out in my view and the high revving ultra short stroke motor happily willing to drop you in it if you got it wrong. Tough bully of a bike imo.
The 1299, which i currently own, somehow achieved the task of more comfort, less antics, whilst still increasing the power to a fairly ludicrous 205 bhp and also keeping the weight the same as a Yamaha R6!
1299 is king! No it may not be quite as quick as a Panigale V4 1103 but is a better bike for me. The extra ponies the 1103 has is irrelevant when we are talking these kinds of outputs on the road, so for me it's about how they go fast and nothing, absolutely nothing matches a 2 cylinder bike honed to absolute perfection like this bike. The latest S1000RR may well be 'better' according to many in the press with a 'nicer' engine but the 1299 is the bonkers, last of an era.
It's just a pity the aftermarket exhausts which really free up the breathing once matched with the fuelling are so stupidly expensive. I have checked out a Termignoni race system complete. £4,500! Ridiculous.
The 1098 was a breath of fresh air, getting Ducati back on track so to speak and a lovely bike, albeit compromised by the usual race bike-like downsides compared to say, a Fireblade.
The 1198 had monstrous mid range that would often lift the front wheel when you were least expecting it, a grunt meister of an engine. Great bike of course.
The 1199 i would describe as unhinged, the 'no-frame' design seemingly rushed out in my view and the high revving ultra short stroke motor happily willing to drop you in it if you got it wrong. Tough bully of a bike imo.
The 1299, which i currently own, somehow achieved the task of more comfort, less antics, whilst still increasing the power to a fairly ludicrous 205 bhp and also keeping the weight the same as a Yamaha R6!
1299 is king! No it may not be quite as quick as a Panigale V4 1103 but is a better bike for me. The extra ponies the 1103 has is irrelevant when we are talking these kinds of outputs on the road, so for me it's about how they go fast and nothing, absolutely nothing matches a 2 cylinder bike honed to absolute perfection like this bike. The latest S1000RR may well be 'better' according to many in the press with a 'nicer' engine but the 1299 is the bonkers, last of an era.
It's just a pity the aftermarket exhausts which really free up the breathing once matched with the fuelling are so stupidly expensive. I have checked out a Termignoni race system complete. £4,500! Ridiculous.
BroadsRS6 said:
Thanks 
blade7 said:
BroadsRS6 said:
Thanks 1098. 104 x 67.1 mm
1198. 106 x 67.9 mm
1199 112 x 60.8 mm
1299 116 x 60.8 mm
You can see that the 1299, actually 1285cc, is wildly over-square and means that the engine is less V Twin-like and more triple-like in it's ability to rev. Short of a 1000cc screaming 4, of course, but right up there with the best huge triples and better than most for rpm ability.
The Ducati 851 which in it's time was considered a high revving sports bike had 92 x 64.
So Ducati made a bike nearly half a litre bigger whilst using a smaller stroke, quite incredible if you are as interested in engine tech as i am.
For the technofreaks here, this is a stunning statistic. A 2002 Suzuki 1000 with 4 tiny 250cc pistons had a 59mm stroke. 73 x 59.
Barely less than the 643 cc pistons of my bike. CRAZY!
1199 prices still well below 1299 though.
The 1199 is of course a great bike but can't use it's power as well as a 1299 and the changes they made weren't just more go. It's a bike that won't get you into trouble as often when pushing on.
The increase in low and mid range on the road are very useful.
The 1199 is of course a great bike but can't use it's power as well as a 1299 and the changes they made weren't just more go. It's a bike that won't get you into trouble as often when pushing on.
The increase in low and mid range on the road are very useful.
BroadsRS6 said:
1199 prices still well below 1299 though.
The 1199 is of course a great bike but can't use it's power as well as a 1299 and the changes they made weren't just more go. It's a bike that won't get you into trouble as often when pushing on.
The increase in low and mid range on the road are very useful.
He's talkng about 1198 vs 1299 not the 1199 vs 1299. The 1199 is of course a great bike but can't use it's power as well as a 1299 and the changes they made weren't just more go. It's a bike that won't get you into trouble as often when pushing on.
The increase in low and mid range on the road are very useful.
1198 is a bonkers bit of kit.
I'd still go for a 1299 though
BroadsRS6 said:
1199 prices still well below 1299 though.
The 1199 is of course a great bike but can't use it's power as well as a 1299 and the changes they made weren't just more go. It's a bike that won't get you into trouble as often when pushing on.
The increase in low and mid range on the road are very useful.
I've read Marzocchi forks on the base Panigale have a problem with the rebound going tits up?The 1199 is of course a great bike but can't use it's power as well as a 1299 and the changes they made weren't just more go. It's a bike that won't get you into trouble as often when pushing on.
The increase in low and mid range on the road are very useful.
Well I can only say that set up for 70 kgs this bike is great up front. No real dive on the brakes and good control in the bends. Tbh I don't ride as mad as I did years ago anyway and I get the braking done earlier.
From 851 to 1299 every bike is good but the 1299 is just incredible and I urge anyone to try one out. The V4 is nicer but I didn't want nice I wanted a mad twin.
From 851 to 1299 every bike is good but the 1299 is just incredible and I urge anyone to try one out. The V4 is nicer but I didn't want nice I wanted a mad twin.
Comparing the 1198 vs 1299 is apples vs oranges. Totally different bikes. If you feel the need to defend one against the other, the other has already ‘won’… whatever that is. They are both great bikes on their own, the cutting edge when they were released in their time. The 1198 is a modern classic based on a historically significant chassis never to be repeated and going up in value; the 1299 a relatively modern bike that is still depreciating: same basic chassis as current lineup, different engine. I would expect each subsequent bike to be objectively ‘better’ performing, else Ducati are not doing their job. But which is more desirable? Let buyers decide…
BroadsRS6 said:
Essentially, i would precis it this way, having owned 3 of the bikes concerned and ridden the other. (1098/1198/1199/1299).
The 1098 was a breath of fresh air, getting Ducati back on track so to speak and a lovely bike, albeit compromised by the usual race bike-like downsides compared to say, a Fireblade.
The 1198 had monstrous mid range that would often lift the front wheel when you were least expecting it, a grunt meister of an engine. Great bike of course.
The 1199 i would describe as unhinged, the 'no-frame' design seemingly rushed out in my view and the high revving ultra short stroke motor happily willing to drop you in it if you got it wrong. Tough bully of a bike imo.
The 1299, which i currently own, somehow achieved the task of more comfort, less antics, whilst still increasing the power to a fairly ludicrous 205 bhp and also keeping the weight the same as a Yamaha R6!
1299 is king! No it may not be quite as quick as a Panigale V4 1103 but is a better bike for me. The extra ponies the 1103 has is irrelevant when we are talking these kinds of outputs on the road, so for me it's about how they go fast and nothing, absolutely nothing matches a 2 cylinder bike honed to absolute perfection like this bike. The latest S1000RR may well be 'better' according to many in the press with a 'nicer' engine but the 1299 is the bonkers, last of an era.
It's just a pity the aftermarket exhausts which really free up the breathing once matched with the fuelling are so stupidly expensive. I have checked out a Termignoni race system complete. £4,500! Ridiculous.
For me it was the opposite, I used to have a V4 and although flawed it was a brilliant bike and great to ride fast, last summer I had a brief go on a friends 1299S and couldn’t get on with it at all, I think in part was because the suspension was in a funny setting and it didn’t feel like it wanted to turn but wasn’t the biggest fan of the engine either.The 1098 was a breath of fresh air, getting Ducati back on track so to speak and a lovely bike, albeit compromised by the usual race bike-like downsides compared to say, a Fireblade.
The 1198 had monstrous mid range that would often lift the front wheel when you were least expecting it, a grunt meister of an engine. Great bike of course.
The 1199 i would describe as unhinged, the 'no-frame' design seemingly rushed out in my view and the high revving ultra short stroke motor happily willing to drop you in it if you got it wrong. Tough bully of a bike imo.
The 1299, which i currently own, somehow achieved the task of more comfort, less antics, whilst still increasing the power to a fairly ludicrous 205 bhp and also keeping the weight the same as a Yamaha R6!
1299 is king! No it may not be quite as quick as a Panigale V4 1103 but is a better bike for me. The extra ponies the 1103 has is irrelevant when we are talking these kinds of outputs on the road, so for me it's about how they go fast and nothing, absolutely nothing matches a 2 cylinder bike honed to absolute perfection like this bike. The latest S1000RR may well be 'better' according to many in the press with a 'nicer' engine but the 1299 is the bonkers, last of an era.
It's just a pity the aftermarket exhausts which really free up the breathing once matched with the fuelling are so stupidly expensive. I have checked out a Termignoni race system complete. £4,500! Ridiculous.
I know V Twins have a huge following and I get it but they’re not for me I don’t think, I was overjoyed to get back on my R1M after 10 minutes on the 1299.
spareparts said:
Comparing the 1198 vs 1299 is apples vs oranges. Totally different bikes. If you feel the need to defend one against the other, the other has already ‘won’… whatever that is. They are both great bikes on their own, the cutting edge when they were released in their time. The 1198 is a modern classic based on a historically significant chassis never to be repeated and going up in value; the 1299 a relatively modern bike that is still depreciating: same basic chassis as current lineup, different engine. I would expect each subsequent bike to be objectively ‘better’ performing, else Ducati are not doing their job. But which is more desirable? Let buyers decide…
A bike going up in value against one depreciating (for now, watch 1299 prices in 15 years' time) is irrelevant regarding how good they are. Totally irrelevant. My dad's 1987 Honda RC30 is going up in value daily and is currently i believe around £40,000 if he sold it. But dad's fast-depreciating 2019 Yamaha R6, worth little now and peanuts in 3 more years is a far better bike in every way bar resale value and arguably, sound.Desirable? Again that is far too subjective to say. To many a 1957 BSA Gold Star is way more desirable than a KTM Duke 690R but we all know which is the BETTER bike.
I had an 1198 and i can make comparisons with the 1299 fairly as i love both, owned both and am a Ducati fanatic since i got my first one decades ago.
1198 v 1299. The fact is all of us can prefer one or the other. But the 1299 is much quicker, has a far better engine for putting the power down to the road in the real world, plus the ultra-short stroke design means it is far more fun to rev out. It revs like no huge twin should ever be able to, an astonishing feat. The 1198 is more 'diesel' in it's method of power, a low rev ceiling and all the grunt squeezed into the low and mid range, mainly. The 1299 is also far less lumpy at low revs and means your choice of gear is nowhere near as important, again a massive advantage on the road.
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