Road and green laning. Crf250 rally or crf450x?
Discussion
Hi all
Looking to get into some motorbike green laning, I've got some training booked in July to get me started.
I need a bike that's road legal, good for a beginner, 4 stroke and easy to look after. Needs to be able to take a little bit of luggage but nothing major. No Africa twin/gs/tiger 'big' adventure bikes. Ideally fuel injection.
The intention is for local lanes, then anything further afield will be collapsible trailer and tow it there by car.
The crf250l rally catches my eye, and I like it, and it's pricing. Although the crf450x is also available similar money for one slightly older than a 250. Similar weight if the specs are believed.
For those with experience, would I benefit from the 450 over the 250?
My mate who will be with me most of time will be on a old ktm 250 exc 2 stroke.
Looking to get into some motorbike green laning, I've got some training booked in July to get me started.
I need a bike that's road legal, good for a beginner, 4 stroke and easy to look after. Needs to be able to take a little bit of luggage but nothing major. No Africa twin/gs/tiger 'big' adventure bikes. Ideally fuel injection.
The intention is for local lanes, then anything further afield will be collapsible trailer and tow it there by car.
The crf250l rally catches my eye, and I like it, and it's pricing. Although the crf450x is also available similar money for one slightly older than a 250. Similar weight if the specs are believed.
For those with experience, would I benefit from the 450 over the 250?
My mate who will be with me most of time will be on a old ktm 250 exc 2 stroke.
Edited by StreetDragster on Thursday 11th June 19:01
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
250 4-stroke for beginners. But, ultimately you will want to upgrade to two stroke if you gel with it as a sport.
Have a go on your mates two stroke and see if you gel with it as a beginner.
250 4-stroke for beginners. But, ultimately you will want to upgrade to two stroke if you gel with it as a sport.
Have a go on your mates two stroke and see if you gel with it as a beginner.
Missenden flyer likes the 250 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juixpCRAtwA
I'd go for a small bike. I think any off road bike regardless of CC is going to be s
t on road with proper tyres on it. So you might as well go for something easy off road which you can sell on if you get bored.
I'd go for a small bike. I think any off road bike regardless of CC is going to be s
t on road with proper tyres on it. So you might as well go for something easy off road which you can sell on if you get bored. Not the rallye - too road focused and bodywork to damage.
Take a look on ebay / FB and report back with what's near you at a price you'd pay
I started 2 years ago and bought a 450 KTM RFS - because it's unstressed and has loads of torque so if you're in the wrong gear it'll still pull you through
I'm just about to advertise it because I've upgraded to a 525 - only because it's come with SM wheels too
WR250 / 450
CRF250 / 450
KTM 250, 350, 400, 450, 525
Personally I want fully adjustable suspension which removes most of the CRFs (there are different spec L, X etc) the WR250 is a good cheap bike with lower maintenance requirements than a KTM
Take a look on ebay / FB and report back with what's near you at a price you'd pay
I started 2 years ago and bought a 450 KTM RFS - because it's unstressed and has loads of torque so if you're in the wrong gear it'll still pull you through
I'm just about to advertise it because I've upgraded to a 525 - only because it's come with SM wheels too
WR250 / 450
CRF250 / 450
KTM 250, 350, 400, 450, 525
Personally I want fully adjustable suspension which removes most of the CRFs (there are different spec L, X etc) the WR250 is a good cheap bike with lower maintenance requirements than a KTM
Deciding how green your lanes are going to be is the deciding factor. What you want for the road, and for the lanes , work in opposition, whatever you improve on one, makes the other worse.
As has been said, the Rallye is not cosmetically practical for proper off road, too much crap that that you don't need, that will just get broken.
450 is bigger, heavier and faster , maybe too much for a novice, but far more the right tool IMO .
Neither are 'nice' on road.
As has been said, the Rallye is not cosmetically practical for proper off road, too much crap that that you don't need, that will just get broken.
450 is bigger, heavier and faster , maybe too much for a novice, but far more the right tool IMO .
Neither are 'nice' on road.
Cheeses of Nazareth said:
Deciding how green your lanes are going to be is the deciding factor. What you want for the road, and for the lanes , work in opposition, whatever you improve on one, makes the other worse.
450 is bigger, heavier and faster
The first sentence is true450 is bigger, heavier and faster
The second not as much as people think... last time I checked the KTM250 version was approx 5kg lighter than the 450 and my KTM525 is approx 30kg lighter than a CRF250L and has far better suspension - but is higher maintenance
The newer CRF450 has half the power of the older ones - so it's worth checking what you're buying
The CRF X is the better bike (than the L) but higher maintainence
UK green lanes frankly the smaller, lighter bike the better, I've thought about a X Trainer or Freeride but I do like having power off the lanes
V8RX7 said:
Cheeses of Nazareth said:
Deciding how green your lanes are going to be is the deciding factor. What you want for the road, and for the lanes , work in opposition, whatever you improve on one, makes the other worse.
450 is bigger, heavier and faster
The first sentence is true450 is bigger, heavier and faster
The second not as much as people think... last time I checked the KTM250 version was approx 5kg lighter than the 450 and my KTM525 is approx 30kg lighter than a CRF250L and has far better suspension - but is higher maintenance
The newer CRF450 has half the power of the older ones - so it's worth checking what you're buying
The CRF X is the better bike (than the L) but higher maintainence
UK green lanes frankly the smaller, lighter bike the better, I've thought about a X Trainer or Freeride but I do like having power off the lanes
xstian said:
The X Trainer is meant to be a fantastic bike, my brother has been looking into one of these. Not much love for the Freeride though.
It depends what you're doing, 350 Freeride gets great reviews for smaller / older riders and on tough sections, it's not for blasting through the outback.I thought about it after showing my daughter how to ride her CRF100 and loving how light it was and TBH it would tackle all the lanes ok too
Thanks for all replies, food for thought.
Some answers/further details-
1) I'm a heavy chap, near 18 stone with my gear on, 6' tall.
2) I haven't ridden my mates KTM yet, and its unlikely that i will before i need my own bike, his is having some work done and it is probably not going to be ready.
3) The reason i liked the Rally is it seemed to address alot of the criticisms of the 250L, such as the small fuel tank and unresponsive engine. The latest Missenden Flyer video of it seems to suggest that the Rally is quite an improvement over his CRF250L (albeit, a 2015 model).
4) Has to be road legal to ride around the local trails, 60-90mins each way maximum duration i think, any more than that and it'll be on a trailer. I do not require it to have much road manners, equipment or whatever, i have other bikes for that, i would sacrifice on road performance for off road no problem
5) Luggage to carry is going to be like some water, jacket, bit of food or whatever, not mega overlanding adventures.
6) Seems to be alot of discussion about the weight of the bikes, from my research, the CRF250/CRF450/WR450 all appear to weigh in similarily.
7) I won't be buying new, and i'm happy with an older bashed up model. That said, the local Facebook pages have a 600miles old 2018 Rally with a few options for £4.2k, not bad.
8) What type of Green lanes, no idea. I've driven a few of them in cars, some are grassy tracks, some of them have quite some rocks to climb which will be a challenge when damp. I also intend to do some of the training/tour days down in Wales and the Peak district once i have a bit of experience, so they maybe more challenging than the local stuff. Basically, i have no idea how capable i need.
9) I have a very local Yamaha dealer, and a fairly local Honda dealer, the Kawasaki dealer is about an hour away, and KTM dealer is absolutely miles away. I am handy with the tools, i have no problems at all doing my own maintenance, i just don't want to be under it ever 5 mins.
10) I don't like carbs, or 2 strokes, i would happily pay a bit more to avoid both these features.
I'll look into the bikes suggested thanks, i would like a fuel injected, road legal WR450f if i could find one fairly local.
Thanks
Matt
Some answers/further details-
1) I'm a heavy chap, near 18 stone with my gear on, 6' tall.
2) I haven't ridden my mates KTM yet, and its unlikely that i will before i need my own bike, his is having some work done and it is probably not going to be ready.
3) The reason i liked the Rally is it seemed to address alot of the criticisms of the 250L, such as the small fuel tank and unresponsive engine. The latest Missenden Flyer video of it seems to suggest that the Rally is quite an improvement over his CRF250L (albeit, a 2015 model).
4) Has to be road legal to ride around the local trails, 60-90mins each way maximum duration i think, any more than that and it'll be on a trailer. I do not require it to have much road manners, equipment or whatever, i have other bikes for that, i would sacrifice on road performance for off road no problem
5) Luggage to carry is going to be like some water, jacket, bit of food or whatever, not mega overlanding adventures.
6) Seems to be alot of discussion about the weight of the bikes, from my research, the CRF250/CRF450/WR450 all appear to weigh in similarily.
7) I won't be buying new, and i'm happy with an older bashed up model. That said, the local Facebook pages have a 600miles old 2018 Rally with a few options for £4.2k, not bad.
8) What type of Green lanes, no idea. I've driven a few of them in cars, some are grassy tracks, some of them have quite some rocks to climb which will be a challenge when damp. I also intend to do some of the training/tour days down in Wales and the Peak district once i have a bit of experience, so they maybe more challenging than the local stuff. Basically, i have no idea how capable i need.
9) I have a very local Yamaha dealer, and a fairly local Honda dealer, the Kawasaki dealer is about an hour away, and KTM dealer is absolutely miles away. I am handy with the tools, i have no problems at all doing my own maintenance, i just don't want to be under it ever 5 mins.
10) I don't like carbs, or 2 strokes, i would happily pay a bit more to avoid both these features.
I'll look into the bikes suggested thanks, i would like a fuel injected, road legal WR450f if i could find one fairly local.
Thanks
Matt
Edited by StreetDragster on Friday 12th June 21:17
Edited by StreetDragster on Monday 15th June 13:15
The 250l and 450x are VERY different bikes.
The 450X is heavily based off the 450R motocross bike that came before it, they are very good bikes but a fair bit more maintenance intensive and less 'road going' than a 250L.
They are however much lighter than a 250l and much better suspension.
Someone commented about wanting a 2 stroke, dont bother as a beginner and especially for 90mins of road use. The power delivery isn't as nice as a 4 stroke and on the road they will be very tiring. Unless you are getting into extreme enduro stuff they aren't really at an advantage other than being fashionable. My partner had an beta X trainer as a first proper off road bike and quickly hated it - the suspension is naff, the build quality is that of a Chinese pit bike and it never fuelled quite right despite hours spent trying to get on top of it. I would never suggest one to anyone. Also at your size youll find an X trainer too small and far too softly sprung.
The WR450 would be a good bike, if going fuel injected the post 17 ones had some issues sorted and are very well put together bikes. I wouldn't get too hung up on fuel injection, the earlier 5 valve engines are rock solid and fuel injection adds another complication that isn't really needed.
Id look at a honda XR400, suzuki drz400, Suzuki dr350 that sort of thing. Those sort of bikes are bullet proof and will do green lanes and enduro days just fine.
Don't get sucked into the latest race machines too much. And the European stuff is nowhere near as well built as the jap stuff but it is currently in fashion and hence £££.
The 450X is heavily based off the 450R motocross bike that came before it, they are very good bikes but a fair bit more maintenance intensive and less 'road going' than a 250L.
They are however much lighter than a 250l and much better suspension.
Someone commented about wanting a 2 stroke, dont bother as a beginner and especially for 90mins of road use. The power delivery isn't as nice as a 4 stroke and on the road they will be very tiring. Unless you are getting into extreme enduro stuff they aren't really at an advantage other than being fashionable. My partner had an beta X trainer as a first proper off road bike and quickly hated it - the suspension is naff, the build quality is that of a Chinese pit bike and it never fuelled quite right despite hours spent trying to get on top of it. I would never suggest one to anyone. Also at your size youll find an X trainer too small and far too softly sprung.
The WR450 would be a good bike, if going fuel injected the post 17 ones had some issues sorted and are very well put together bikes. I wouldn't get too hung up on fuel injection, the earlier 5 valve engines are rock solid and fuel injection adds another complication that isn't really needed.
Id look at a honda XR400, suzuki drz400, Suzuki dr350 that sort of thing. Those sort of bikes are bullet proof and will do green lanes and enduro days just fine.
Don't get sucked into the latest race machines too much. And the European stuff is nowhere near as well built as the jap stuff but it is currently in fashion and hence £££.
StreetDragster said:
Thanks for all replies, food for thought.
Some answers/further details-
1) I'm a heavy chap, near 18 stone with my gear on, 6' tall.
2) I haven't ridden my mates KTM yet, and its unlikely that i will before i need my own bike, his is having some work done and it is probably not going to be ready.
3) The reason i liked the Rally is it seemed to address alot of the criticisms of the 250L, such as the small fuel tank and unresponsive engine. The latest Missenden Flyer video of it seems to suggest that the Rally is quite an improvement over his CRF250L (albeit, a 2015 model).
4) Has to be road legal to ride around the local trails, 60-90mins each way maximum duration i think, any more than that and it'll be on a trailer. I do not require it to have much road manners, equipment or whatever, i have other bikes for that, i would sacrifice on road performance for off road no problem
5) Luggage to carry is going to be like some water, jacket, bit of food or whatever, not mega overlanding adventures.
6) Seems to be alot of discussion about the weight of the bikes, from my research, the CRF250/CRF450/WR450 all appear to weigh in similarily.
7) I won't be buying new, and i'm happy with an older bashed up model. That said, the local Facebook pages have a 600miles old 2018 Rally with a few options for £4.2k, not bad.
8) What type of Green lanes, no idea. I've driven a few of them in cars, some are grassy tracks, some of them have quite some rocks to climb which will be a challenge when damp. I also intend to do some of the training/tour days down in Wales and the Peak district once i have a bit of experience, so they maybe more challenging than the local stuff. Basically, i have no idea how capable i need.
9) I have a very local Yamaha dealer, and a fairly local Honda dealer, the Kawasaki dealer is about an hour away, and KTM dealer is absolutely miles away. I am handy with the tools, i have no problems at all doing my own maintenance, i just don't want to be under it ever 5 mins.
10) I don't like carbs, or 2 strokes, i would happily pay a bit more to avoid both these features.
I'll look into the bikes suggested thanks, i would like a fuel injected, road legal WR450x if i could find one fairly local.
Thanks
Matt
A 250F with 18 stones on it wont pull a greasy stick out of a dogs arse. Some answers/further details-
1) I'm a heavy chap, near 18 stone with my gear on, 6' tall.
2) I haven't ridden my mates KTM yet, and its unlikely that i will before i need my own bike, his is having some work done and it is probably not going to be ready.
3) The reason i liked the Rally is it seemed to address alot of the criticisms of the 250L, such as the small fuel tank and unresponsive engine. The latest Missenden Flyer video of it seems to suggest that the Rally is quite an improvement over his CRF250L (albeit, a 2015 model).
4) Has to be road legal to ride around the local trails, 60-90mins each way maximum duration i think, any more than that and it'll be on a trailer. I do not require it to have much road manners, equipment or whatever, i have other bikes for that, i would sacrifice on road performance for off road no problem
5) Luggage to carry is going to be like some water, jacket, bit of food or whatever, not mega overlanding adventures.
6) Seems to be alot of discussion about the weight of the bikes, from my research, the CRF250/CRF450/WR450 all appear to weigh in similarily.
7) I won't be buying new, and i'm happy with an older bashed up model. That said, the local Facebook pages have a 600miles old 2018 Rally with a few options for £4.2k, not bad.
8) What type of Green lanes, no idea. I've driven a few of them in cars, some are grassy tracks, some of them have quite some rocks to climb which will be a challenge when damp. I also intend to do some of the training/tour days down in Wales and the Peak district once i have a bit of experience, so they maybe more challenging than the local stuff. Basically, i have no idea how capable i need.
9) I have a very local Yamaha dealer, and a fairly local Honda dealer, the Kawasaki dealer is about an hour away, and KTM dealer is absolutely miles away. I am handy with the tools, i have no problems at all doing my own maintenance, i just don't want to be under it ever 5 mins.
10) I don't like carbs, or 2 strokes, i would happily pay a bit more to avoid both these features.
I'll look into the bikes suggested thanks, i would like a fuel injected, road legal WR450x if i could find one fairly local.
Thanks
Matt
Edited by StreetDragster on Friday 12th June 21:17
And despite the figures, the weight is more than the numbers.. 450 crank is much heavier, bike is harder to turn, feels heavier in the air.
But its the tool, you cant ride a kids bike, and 250F's suck on the road
I'd say it depends on how far you are from the lanes you plan on doing regularly and how good/crap you feel you are.
If you have some places you are going to ride some way to and ride back go for a bigger capacity bike and if you are feeling like you might not drop it much that would also apply.
A smaller bike will be better if you don't have long road use or if the roads are little country lanes and also if you are going to drop it lots, it is far easier to pick up a 100kg bike than 160kg.
Height is also a factor, being able to dab here and there can increase confidence and make you relax more and improve your riding.
There probably isn't a 'right' bike out there, everyone wants one that is great and light off road (100kgs or thereabouts depending on how powerfully they are built), will sit at 75 on the motorway and be comfortable all day, have a huge fuel capacity and equally huge maintenance period. The Enduro-corn.
If you have some places you are going to ride some way to and ride back go for a bigger capacity bike and if you are feeling like you might not drop it much that would also apply.
A smaller bike will be better if you don't have long road use or if the roads are little country lanes and also if you are going to drop it lots, it is far easier to pick up a 100kg bike than 160kg.
Height is also a factor, being able to dab here and there can increase confidence and make you relax more and improve your riding.
There probably isn't a 'right' bike out there, everyone wants one that is great and light off road (100kgs or thereabouts depending on how powerfully they are built), will sit at 75 on the motorway and be comfortable all day, have a huge fuel capacity and equally huge maintenance period. The Enduro-corn.
StreetDragster said:
Hi all
Looking to get into some motorbike green laning, I've got some training booked in July to get me started.
I need a bike that's road legal, good for a beginner, 4 stroke and easy to look after. Needs to be able to take a little bit of luggage but nothing major. No Africa twin/gs/tiger 'big' adventure bikes. Ideally fuel injection.
The intention is for local lanes, then anything further afield will be collapsible trailer and tow it there by car.
The crf250l rally catches my eye, and I like it, and it's pricing. Although the crf450x is also available similar money for one slightly older than a 250. Similar weight if the specs are believed.
For those with experience, would I benefit from the 450 over the 250?
My mate who will be with me most of time will be on a old ktm 250 exc 2 stroke.
The CRF250L is very capable, and I'd say better for a beginner than the 450. But it's not a lot of HP and might struggle with a lot of weight. Personally I'd still start with that as they hold their value well if you need to move up. I just sold mine for exactly what I paid for it 3 years ago. Looking to get into some motorbike green laning, I've got some training booked in July to get me started.
I need a bike that's road legal, good for a beginner, 4 stroke and easy to look after. Needs to be able to take a little bit of luggage but nothing major. No Africa twin/gs/tiger 'big' adventure bikes. Ideally fuel injection.
The intention is for local lanes, then anything further afield will be collapsible trailer and tow it there by car.
The crf250l rally catches my eye, and I like it, and it's pricing. Although the crf450x is also available similar money for one slightly older than a 250. Similar weight if the specs are believed.
For those with experience, would I benefit from the 450 over the 250?
My mate who will be with me most of time will be on a old ktm 250 exc 2 stroke.
Edited by StreetDragster on Thursday 11th June 19:01
Thanks again for the useful replies.
I'm swaying towards a WR450f, based mainly on i think the extra poke will compensate for my extra plod so its a bike that can grow with me, my local dealer being a Yamaha, and they generally look like nice bikes whilst weighing similar to 250cc.
Post 17 fuel injected ones are within budget so that could be a plan. Some of the 'classics' like the DRZ400 seem disproportionately expensive given there hours/mileage and age.
I take on board that it may not be ideal for me as a beginner, that 'weight' is more than just KG' on specification, and maybe a bit to man handle, but i'll see how it goes. I can cope with their maintenance regime. They equally seem to hold their value like some of the 250's, so if it turns out to be too much for the lanes i'm riding, i'll move it on and get something better suited.
I also see that according to some youtube vids, the WR450 can be made really pokey if the factory throttle stop is removed, as well as the airbox snorkel and the exhaust bung. I'm guessing that most bikes will have had this done already, so i'll actually put them back in, and limit its performance that way at first. Like learner mode on jetskis.
I'm swaying towards a WR450f, based mainly on i think the extra poke will compensate for my extra plod so its a bike that can grow with me, my local dealer being a Yamaha, and they generally look like nice bikes whilst weighing similar to 250cc.
Post 17 fuel injected ones are within budget so that could be a plan. Some of the 'classics' like the DRZ400 seem disproportionately expensive given there hours/mileage and age.
I take on board that it may not be ideal for me as a beginner, that 'weight' is more than just KG' on specification, and maybe a bit to man handle, but i'll see how it goes. I can cope with their maintenance regime. They equally seem to hold their value like some of the 250's, so if it turns out to be too much for the lanes i'm riding, i'll move it on and get something better suited.
I also see that according to some youtube vids, the WR450 can be made really pokey if the factory throttle stop is removed, as well as the airbox snorkel and the exhaust bung. I'm guessing that most bikes will have had this done already, so i'll actually put them back in, and limit its performance that way at first. Like learner mode on jetskis.
StreetDragster said:
Thanks again for the useful replies.
I'm swaying towards a WR450f, based mainly on i think the extra poke will compensate for my extra plod so its a bike that can grow with me, my local dealer being a Yamaha, and they generally look like nice bikes whilst weighing similar to 250cc.
Post 17 fuel injected ones are within budget so that could be a plan. Some of the 'classics' like the DRZ400 seem disproportionately expensive given there hours/mileage and age.
I take on board that it may not be ideal for me as a beginner, that 'weight' is more than just KG' on specification, and maybe a bit to man handle, but i'll see how it goes. I can cope with their maintenance regime. They equally seem to hold their value like some of the 250's, so if it turns out to be too much for the lanes i'm riding, i'll move it on and get something better suited.
I also see that according to some youtube vids, the WR450 can be made really pokey if the factory throttle stop is removed, as well as the airbox snorkel and the exhaust bung. I'm guessing that most bikes will have had this done already, so i'll actually put them back in, and limit its performance that way at first. Like learner mode on jetskis.
One thing I forgot... E-Start is a must.. when you are blowing out of your arse, and upside down in a ditch , nothing ruins your day more than a bike you cant startI'm swaying towards a WR450f, based mainly on i think the extra poke will compensate for my extra plod so its a bike that can grow with me, my local dealer being a Yamaha, and they generally look like nice bikes whilst weighing similar to 250cc.
Post 17 fuel injected ones are within budget so that could be a plan. Some of the 'classics' like the DRZ400 seem disproportionately expensive given there hours/mileage and age.
I take on board that it may not be ideal for me as a beginner, that 'weight' is more than just KG' on specification, and maybe a bit to man handle, but i'll see how it goes. I can cope with their maintenance regime. They equally seem to hold their value like some of the 250's, so if it turns out to be too much for the lanes i'm riding, i'll move it on and get something better suited.
I also see that according to some youtube vids, the WR450 can be made really pokey if the factory throttle stop is removed, as well as the airbox snorkel and the exhaust bung. I'm guessing that most bikes will have had this done already, so i'll actually put them back in, and limit its performance that way at first. Like learner mode on jetskis.
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