My Mate's just come off his Bike !
Discussion
Mate of mine, new leathers, new helmet, sunny day, Honda VFR 750. Belmont Road upto Black Dog, took bend too fast couldn't get bike back in, wrong side of the road, family of 5 in oncoming car.
Result..
1 - £10,000 loss (Bike + bits and bats)
2 - near death experience (seriously messed up ankle, 3 broken ribs, bruising)
3 - cancelled holiday
4 - Angry Wife (says he's getting another Bike)
Are you lot nutters or what? Don't get me wrong I see the attraction to Bikes, I'm all for a press-on driving in the right circumstances but why the risk taking?
Result..
1 - £10,000 loss (Bike + bits and bats)
2 - near death experience (seriously messed up ankle, 3 broken ribs, bruising)
3 - cancelled holiday
4 - Angry Wife (says he's getting another Bike)
Are you lot nutters or what? Don't get me wrong I see the attraction to Bikes, I'm all for a press-on driving in the right circumstances but why the risk taking?
Totally agree, it's good he's alive and I'm sure perhaps that you guys wouldn't want to talk like this knowing the inherent risks of getting it wrong. But I can't help but think that these Bikes are just getting out of hand or is it the case that the power race since the Hyabusa has died down a bit and I'm talking out of my arse?
Even so, I'd be surprised if his Wife will let him get on a bike again. Worth the risk??? I wonder.
Even so, I'd be surprised if his Wife will let him get on a bike again. Worth the risk??? I wonder.
Im currently learning and have a 600 ready and waiting. After the amount of stories ive heard, and people i know who have been hurt/killed on bikes recently, im seriously starting to think that once ive had a few months fun on the bike, ill just sell it and go back to cars.
That said, I may absolutely love it and ride for as long as im physically and financially able.
I was discussing this with my Dad the other week, and his response was "well, lets face it, you could die of anything at any time - you could go out tomorrow and get hit by a bus"
Thing is, he was hit by a bus the very next day!! Ironic?! Thankfully he survived with only cuts and bruises and a bit of concussion.
You know what they say "you pays yer money, you takes yer chance"
That said, I may absolutely love it and ride for as long as im physically and financially able.
I was discussing this with my Dad the other week, and his response was "well, lets face it, you could die of anything at any time - you could go out tomorrow and get hit by a bus"
Thing is, he was hit by a bus the very next day!! Ironic?! Thankfully he survived with only cuts and bruises and a bit of concussion.
You know what they say "you pays yer money, you takes yer chance"
It's like anything else - stay within the limits and you're OK, overcook it and bad things happen. The difficulty with bikes as opposed to cars is that once you do go over the line it's harder to get things back in shape, and the chances of injury are much greater, so it's not so easy to explore precisely where the limits are. You can play around in a car (eg. on a skidpan) exploring its behaviour around and over the limits and the worst that can happen is the car gets dirty. You can't really do that on a bike.
Most bikers are very aware of what can happen. It is just how you, as an individual, build a calculated risk into your riding. Roadcraft and Advanced training will instill some good rules into your riding techinique; it certainly won't keep you safe from harm in all circumstances. Most bikers trade off that percentage risk due to the rewards of riding. Great thrill and freedom etc.; hence, this is why your friend lays in his hospital bed recovering and still insists on the two-wheeled form of transport.
Reinforcing the last two posts, I agree that it is difficult to push the limit on the road and 'get away with it'. As such, when we get a close call (perhaps by inattention, reading the road wrong, miscalculation or mechanical failure) we may not have the right survival or coping instinct entrained in our bodies and minds. We also don't have a nice cage around us if we do get it wrong.
A typical case is finding a bend tightens up on you (incorrect planning, speed, approach etc as an advanced instructor would tell you), panic attack, grab front brake and wash out or get it stood up and slow in the road/verge/hedge/wall as appropriate. A trained response would be to lean a little more or use a little back brake to help get round. Again, the 'advanced' road rider should not end up in this situation, but that's doubtless worthy of another thread. :wink: Running wide in a car may give you a glancing blow or a full-on smack, but you should survive ok in this day and age.
I'm not saying your friend was particularly doing any of this, but had he just overcooked a corner without an oncoming car, he would have had a little fright, put it down to experience and laughed about it later with his mates (maybe). Sod's Law means there has to be a car or some such in the way. The lucky man (me) manages to crash on a nice straight without hitting anyone or anything. Unfortunately most people don't get that.
A typical case is finding a bend tightens up on you (incorrect planning, speed, approach etc as an advanced instructor would tell you), panic attack, grab front brake and wash out or get it stood up and slow in the road/verge/hedge/wall as appropriate. A trained response would be to lean a little more or use a little back brake to help get round. Again, the 'advanced' road rider should not end up in this situation, but that's doubtless worthy of another thread. :wink: Running wide in a car may give you a glancing blow or a full-on smack, but you should survive ok in this day and age.
I'm not saying your friend was particularly doing any of this, but had he just overcooked a corner without an oncoming car, he would have had a little fright, put it down to experience and laughed about it later with his mates (maybe). Sod's Law means there has to be a car or some such in the way. The lucky man (me) manages to crash on a nice straight without hitting anyone or anything. Unfortunately most people don't get that.
Just cos he got it wrong does not mean he was riding like an idiot, Car drivers never lose it do they?
Three speed to consider for a bend
1 The maximum physical speed based on the laws of physics.
2 The max safe speed and this will vary with conditions from day to day
3 The riders personal limit
if you ride with mates then there are 2 more
1 Their assessment of the safe limit
2 Their personal ability and of all of them you need to ride to the lower. If you push your persoanl limit then there is a risk of losing control and it can be as little as 2mph. So just cos he lost it does not mean he was riding like an idiot. just got his assessments wrong?
Three speed to consider for a bend
1 The maximum physical speed based on the laws of physics.
2 The max safe speed and this will vary with conditions from day to day
3 The riders personal limit
if you ride with mates then there are 2 more
1 Their assessment of the safe limit
2 Their personal ability and of all of them you need to ride to the lower. If you push your persoanl limit then there is a risk of losing control and it can be as little as 2mph. So just cos he lost it does not mean he was riding like an idiot. just got his assessments wrong?
Just cos he got it wrong does not mean he was riding like an idiot, Car drivers never lose it do they?
Three speed to consider for a bend
1 The maximum physical speed based on the laws of physics.
2 The max safe speed and this will vary with conditions from day to day
3 The riders personal limit
if you ride with mates then there are 2 more
1 Their assessment of the safe limit
2 Their personal ability and of all of them you need to ride to the lower. If you push your persoanl limit then there is a risk of losing control and it can be as little as 2mph. So just cos he lost it does not mean he was riding like an idiot. just got his assessments wrong?
Three speed to consider for a bend
1 The maximum physical speed based on the laws of physics.
2 The max safe speed and this will vary with conditions from day to day
3 The riders personal limit
if you ride with mates then there are 2 more
1 Their assessment of the safe limit
2 Their personal ability and of all of them you need to ride to the lower. If you push your persoanl limit then there is a risk of losing control and it can be as little as 2mph. So just cos he lost it does not mean he was riding like an idiot. just got his assessments wrong?
gRsf12 said:
A trained response would be to lean a little more or use a little back brake to help get round.
The 'trained response' would also have you in the hedge, as the application of the back brake would also help the bike stand up slightly and hence run wide.The only thing you can really do is to look where you want to go, lean further and GENTLY roll on the gas (to keep the front end tucked in). The worst you'll then do is lowside (& hit the hedge). Takes a lot of concentration not to touch the front brake when you think you need to slow down to turn. The alternative is to tip the thing right over and just look away!
By all intents and purposes and from my Friend's own confession, his speed was approx 60-70mph in a 30mph zone. His bike went light over a slight crest and ran wide. He caught the front offside of the third party car ie. he was just over the central line. If he was a few inches further over would have hit the car square on. He's a lucky bastard and he knows it but it doesnt seem to have put him off. Born again biker statistic. Car driver (in this case) had done nothing wrong whatsoever.
p.s. cars do have accidents and do cause accidents but this wasn't the intention for this post.
p.s. cars do have accidents and do cause accidents but this wasn't the intention for this post.
fergus said:
the application of the back brake would also help the bike stand up slightly and hence run wide.The only thing you can really do is to look where you want to go, lean further and GENTLY roll on the gas (to keep the front end tucked in).
Use of the back brake would slow the bike and may cause the bike to understeer and run wide. However, this keeps the front loaded where just letting off the gas does not, so the effect is not so great and can be assisted and countered by leaning further. I did not say this was the only option. Accelerating to load the front more in conjunction with leaning further may be another way, but may also not be possible, depending on the room/time available and could in itself just lead to a higher speed crash.
Experience and use...or practice...is what we use to determine the best course of action.
60 - 70 in a 30!
anniesdad said:
so speed limits are there in an advisory capacity then?? funny that, I thought these showed road users the correct speed limit for a particular stretch of road.
A speed limit shows you the limit that the local council/highways authority is telling you that can drive at, this figure will be arrived at from a number of considerations, not all of them safety related. Accordingly the speed limit and the speed with which the road can be safely but illegally travelled along, can be all to frequently wide apart.
I hope your mate learns from his accident and gets some lessons on how to handle the bike properly together with some extra tuition on how to read the road etc.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Thursday 10th June 17:36
gRsf12 said:
Use of the back brake would slow the bike and may cause the bike to understeer and run wide. However, this keeps the front loaded where just letting off the gas does not.....Accelerating to load the front more in conjunction with leaning further may be another way, but may also not be possible, depending on the room/time available and could in itself just lead to a higher speed crash.
Letting off the gas DOES keep the front loaded (sometimes overloaded), but will make the bike understeer like mad! Please could you let me know how the rearwards weight transfer associated with accelerating loads the front?!
PS by just 'rolling on' the throttle (rather than pinning it), this won't lead to a higher speed crash! Get yourself on a track and mess about with steering on the throttle! Bikes are steered via the back wheel!
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