Motorcycling is slowly dying
Discussion
Alongside cost of living and people prioritising cars and getting on the housing ladder, what has stopped me and imagine many others is lack of space/security.
Houses with a garage and/or driveway come at a premium and although I know you can own a motorbike without these things, it certainly put me off.
Houses with a garage and/or driveway come at a premium and although I know you can own a motorbike without these things, it certainly put me off.
I got my licence and bought my first big bike this year at the age of 34. Why didn't I do it earlier?
Where do I think we are going wrong in this country WRT getting people riding?
- Lack of exposure. None of my family or friends rode, so I just wasn't around bikes. I didn't look at them as objects of desire.
- Risk/perceived risk. Any mention of bikes was always accompanied by tooth sucking and some variation on "you'll be killed".
- The overhead of getting a licence. It's not something you can casually try, it's really expensive and quite time consuming.
Where do I think we are going wrong in this country WRT getting people riding?
- Licencing complexity. I think starting on a 125 is a good idea but A2 is totally pointless and the module 1 should be wrapped into the CBT or DAS training, not a standalone test.
- Crime. Many years of government policy that have led to the abolition of any kind of policing make owning bikes impossible for many as the cost of insuring an expensive object that will get nicked is infeasible.
- Culture. Biking is a seen as a 'sport' rather than as a cheap and fast means of getting around that also happens to be really fun.
I'm not sure how the costs of car and bike licences differ for a notional 20yo, I'm guessing about 100-120% more which is about two months insurance on a s
tbox Corsa. A brand new A2 bike can be £60 a month, gear can be under £500 (says the guy who wears five times that). As I said earlier, the young biker I know socially got into it because the car was impossible for him.
Reading the OP again, I realise that despite fitting the older demographic, I don't do meets, never have. I might stop at local areas occasionally, but it's a convenient stop during a lengthy day out, not a destination.
tbox Corsa. A brand new A2 bike can be £60 a month, gear can be under £500 (says the guy who wears five times that). As I said earlier, the young biker I know socially got into it because the car was impossible for him. Reading the OP again, I realise that despite fitting the older demographic, I don't do meets, never have. I might stop at local areas occasionally, but it's a convenient stop during a lengthy day out, not a destination.
Biker's Nemesis said:
PT1984 said:
I think younger people are passing their tests but they just don’t want to go to the meets. I’m 40 and passed last year, and I couldn’t think of anything worse. I live close to Matlock. It’s avoided like the plague. I’m a Chatsworth farm shop kind of guy. I ride to have time to myself. And maybe it’s just around here, but there are a disproportionate number of bikers who ride like dicks on the Sunday Matlock run.
You're not young though are you.Me neither
crofty1984 said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
PT1984 said:
I think younger people are passing their tests but they just don’t want to go to the meets. I’m 40 and passed last year, and I couldn’t think of anything worse. I live close to Matlock. It’s avoided like the plague. I’m a Chatsworth farm shop kind of guy. I ride to have time to myself. And maybe it’s just around here, but there are a disproportionate number of bikers who ride like dicks on the Sunday Matlock run.
You're not young though are you.Me neither
HybridTheory said:
Dunno where everyone lives obviously but I ride my bike to work everyday and I don't get wet very often. Some of the posts here you'd think we live on some kind of flood plane
Round my way they'd be the people who dig the bike out at most a dozen times a year, do the same 60/70 mile round trip to the same biker "meet" (so Largs, Green Welly or Inveraray on a long day) and sell their bikes after three years with 2.5k miles on it. If that's what you want to do, fine. If there's no snow or ice I prefer to be on two wheels, the gear might get wet but I don't. Unfortunately I've not been on my bike for nearly two months (thanks BMW) but since the ice lifted in February I've still done nearly 4k miles and, excepting the limp mode fiascos (thanks, BMW) every mile has been great, including the commutes and including the three rides in yellow warning rainstorms (okay, I did get wet on the last one). In fact the day of the second big rainstorm was one of the best days riding in my life.
croyde said:
Imagine that now, it's 3 lanes up and down and restricted to 20mph.
Progress is what some would claim that is, ironically. Wales was similar when I visited in March. Lots of roads that I once leisurely cruised along at 60+mph, are now 20mph. I thought it was a joke when I was told, but after spending a week there I can confirm that, it is indeed a joke. The whole week I rode slower than a one legged pensioner with asthma runs, but I'm still surprised I kept my licence. If I still lived there, I wouldn't.
hiccy18 said:
I'm not sure how the costs of car and bike licences differ for a notional 20yo, I'm guessing about 100-120% more which is about two months insurance on a stbox Corsa. A brand new A2 bike can be £60 a month, gear can be under £500 (says the guy who wears five times that). As I said earlier, the young biker I know socially got into it because the car was impossible for him.
Reading the OP again, I realise that despite fitting the older demographic, I don't do meets, never have. I might stop at local areas occasionally, but it's a convenient stop during a lengthy day out, not a destination.
Except you HAVE to do your A2 training through an approved centre with an instructor.tbox Corsa. A brand new A2 bike can be £60 a month, gear can be under £500 (says the guy who wears five times that). As I said earlier, the young biker I know socially got into it because the car was impossible for him. Reading the OP again, I realise that despite fitting the older demographic, I don't do meets, never have. I might stop at local areas occasionally, but it's a convenient stop during a lengthy day out, not a destination.
You can do a LOT of driver training in your own/families car with a parent/relative etc.
HybridTheory said:
Dunno where everyone lives obviously but I ride my bike to work everyday and I don't get wet very often. Some of the posts here you'd think we live on some kind of flood plane
Depends how far you go.When I was doing 50 miles each way on a bike, I seemed to get wet a lot of mornings.
If it's not raining on the coast, it's often raining inland.
OutInTheShed said:
HybridTheory said:
Dunno where everyone lives obviously but I ride my bike to work everyday and I don't get wet very often. Some of the posts here you'd think we live on some kind of flood plane
Depends how far you go.When I was doing 50 miles each way on a bike, I seemed to get wet a lot of mornings.
If it's not raining on the coast, it's often raining inland.
My grandparents lived near the seven bridge. Growing up I fully believed my grandfathers claims that it never rained there, because I never seemed to witness it. Living in a mountainous part of South Wales, by contrast, rain was an almost daily occurrence. Still, nothing compared to the North West coast of Scotland. If I lived there and had to commute throughout winter I'd ditch the bike and get a jetski.
croyde said:
I was a dispatch rider in the early 80s and we had the 'Ton up Park Lane Club'.
You had to hit 100mph headed north. No cameras back then.
Imagine that now, it's 3 lanes up and down and restricted to 20mph.
Even though I live in outer London, I haven't driven or ridden across the centre in years until a few weeks ago on a trip down the A1 and dropping passengers off so I couldn't skip round the M25 or North Circ.
Finchley Road down to Swiss Cottage and continuing over to Marble Arch to drop south on Park Lane. All 20mph, it was so depressing and mind numbing. Awful.
I was, annoyingly, born too late to be able to enjoy those times. I do wonder if it's better that way though, must be unbelievably frustrating to remember those days and then deal with it how it is now.You had to hit 100mph headed north. No cameras back then.
Imagine that now, it's 3 lanes up and down and restricted to 20mph.
Even though I live in outer London, I haven't driven or ridden across the centre in years until a few weeks ago on a trip down the A1 and dropping passengers off so I couldn't skip round the M25 or North Circ.
Finchley Road down to Swiss Cottage and continuing over to Marble Arch to drop south on Park Lane. All 20mph, it was so depressing and mind numbing. Awful.
When I drive into town I usually go M40/M25/M4/A4 now as it's the least stressful option. Had cause to come in off the M1 the other week and down Finchley Road to Marble Arch. Like you say, horrible journey. I'd much rather have been on public transport, no chance I'd have wanted to be on a bike!
I'm 36 and just bought my first bike (Huskvarna Svartpilen 125cc). I have just passed my theory test and looking to book the MOD1, then MOD2. I had a bit of a lengthy conversation with my bike school about why the MOD1 isn't combined into the CBT. My thinking is the CBT isn't enough to be safe on the road and I personally felt I didn't have enough training after my CBT.
I intend to commute on my bike once I'm more comfortable being around so much traffic, currently I'm practicing low speed manoeuvres and general road riding discipline.
I've covered about 150 miles since collecting my bike, I can see why this is a dangerous way to travel and I now firmly agree everyone should learn how to ride a motorbike.
I intend to commute on my bike once I'm more comfortable being around so much traffic, currently I'm practicing low speed manoeuvres and general road riding discipline.
I've covered about 150 miles since collecting my bike, I can see why this is a dangerous way to travel and I now firmly agree everyone should learn how to ride a motorbike.
I'm 42 now and can certainly agree it seems to be an older mans hobby these days.
As a youth, I used to ride pillion on my dads bike in the 90's. All the bike meets, race meets etc were populated with a lot of 20-40s on FZR's, Fireblades, GSXR's etc. Now it seems that these lot have got older and are turning to adventure bikes / tourers. You get chatting to any of them and they've nearly all owned sportsbikes in the past but transferred to something more comfy as they aged.
At 16 I took to the road with my FS1E and quite a few others did similar. Out of the group of 8-9 we had at the time only 3 of us still ride. A friend of mine looked into doing his test but said he just couldn't be bothered with the time, effort and money required just to hold a license. Then there's the dashcam warriors, reduced speed limits, speed cameras removing the appeal somewhat.
Even when I took to the road I had so many friends who's parents wouldn't allow it due to the risk and this was 26 years ago. I can't imagine that attitude has relaxed along the way. All the lads being told bikes are dangerous and not to go near them will have had kids themselves now and will be passing this message on. A lot of my generation had fathers who had owned bikes in the past as a cheap form of transport, so they understood the appeal. If bikes haven't been in your family for generations, you haven't been around them or even been on the back of one it is much less likely for you to look into it independently.
For me, bikes only become appealing once you have experienced them. I never gave bikes a second look as a kid until my dad started taking me out. On paper they don't make any sense anymore, they are an emotional purchase on the whole.
As for the Deliveroo / Justeat brigade, they are on automatic scooters generally so will more than likely just move to a car when they can afford it as opposed to spending thousands taking a test, buying equipment and climbing the biking ladder.
All sad, but true.
As a youth, I used to ride pillion on my dads bike in the 90's. All the bike meets, race meets etc were populated with a lot of 20-40s on FZR's, Fireblades, GSXR's etc. Now it seems that these lot have got older and are turning to adventure bikes / tourers. You get chatting to any of them and they've nearly all owned sportsbikes in the past but transferred to something more comfy as they aged.
At 16 I took to the road with my FS1E and quite a few others did similar. Out of the group of 8-9 we had at the time only 3 of us still ride. A friend of mine looked into doing his test but said he just couldn't be bothered with the time, effort and money required just to hold a license. Then there's the dashcam warriors, reduced speed limits, speed cameras removing the appeal somewhat.
Even when I took to the road I had so many friends who's parents wouldn't allow it due to the risk and this was 26 years ago. I can't imagine that attitude has relaxed along the way. All the lads being told bikes are dangerous and not to go near them will have had kids themselves now and will be passing this message on. A lot of my generation had fathers who had owned bikes in the past as a cheap form of transport, so they understood the appeal. If bikes haven't been in your family for generations, you haven't been around them or even been on the back of one it is much less likely for you to look into it independently.
For me, bikes only become appealing once you have experienced them. I never gave bikes a second look as a kid until my dad started taking me out. On paper they don't make any sense anymore, they are an emotional purchase on the whole.
As for the Deliveroo / Justeat brigade, they are on automatic scooters generally so will more than likely just move to a car when they can afford it as opposed to spending thousands taking a test, buying equipment and climbing the biking ladder.
All sad, but true.
8IKERDAVE said:
A friend of mine looked into doing his test but said he just couldn't be bothered with the time, effort and money required just to hold a license. Then there's the dashcam warriors, reduced speed limits, speed cameras removing the appeal somewhat.
I agree with a lot of what you've said, however for me, one of the appeals of a motorbike is from the reduced speed limits and the ever increasing number of speed cameras.I daily drive a BMW M2 and it's so frustrating to drive on the road, the car is so capable and really doesn't feel alive until firmly into licence loosing territory (hence why I do track days with it). Whereas, my little Husqvarna Svartpilen 125cc feels like I'm going a million miles an hour at 50mph. It's brilliant and sparked my desire to just go for a drive /ride, which I can never be arsed to do anymore. My M2 won't be replaced with another sports car, I've just about had enough of them now.
I'm sure once I've become accustomed to the sense of speed I will crave more acceleration, but the commitment of time and money for a full bike licence is a real ballache. Imo the CBT and MOD1 should be combined, followed by theory and MOD2.
I'm 51 and have been riding (mostly daily commuting) for 30yrs. Also used to do a European tour once a year until our kid came along 9yrs ago.
I never go to biker meets, can't stand them. The ones close to me in the South East (Loomies, H-Cafe, Box Hill) are far too busy, attract too many wannabe Rossis and consequently far too much attention from the law.
If it's not them it's a load of Ewan McCharlies all showing off 20 grand's worth of GS that never gets wet. I avoid them like the plague.
I got into riding to beat the abysmal traffic on my commute to my IT job. These days many younger people either do a lot of working from home or can work flexibly so they are not forced to be at a desk for an arbitrary 9am start, hence commute when it is quieter/cheaper. The 21yo me today probably would not have the necessity to learn to ride a bike due those kind of societal changes.
Bikes have also become a leisure product rather than an essential means of transport. Unfortunately those youngsters that might have otherwise got into biking are spending a significant proportion of their income on rent, so don't have the spare cash to fund a bike as a weekend toy.
I never go to biker meets, can't stand them. The ones close to me in the South East (Loomies, H-Cafe, Box Hill) are far too busy, attract too many wannabe Rossis and consequently far too much attention from the law.
If it's not them it's a load of Ewan McCharlies all showing off 20 grand's worth of GS that never gets wet. I avoid them like the plague.
I got into riding to beat the abysmal traffic on my commute to my IT job. These days many younger people either do a lot of working from home or can work flexibly so they are not forced to be at a desk for an arbitrary 9am start, hence commute when it is quieter/cheaper. The 21yo me today probably would not have the necessity to learn to ride a bike due those kind of societal changes.
Bikes have also become a leisure product rather than an essential means of transport. Unfortunately those youngsters that might have otherwise got into biking are spending a significant proportion of their income on rent, so don't have the spare cash to fund a bike as a weekend toy.
The Selfish Gene said:
you should check out the 10000 plus people that attended the Adventure Bike Rider Festival at weekend - didn't feel like it was dying to me.
COuld do with more younger blood I would agree, and more ladies.....
Funny you should mention that, I met one of the ladies behind this event when I was at Glastonbury last year. COuld do with more younger blood I would agree, and more ladies.....
Lots of effort going into getting ladies onto two wheels: https://womenmoto.co.uk/
gareth_r said:
Bob_Defly said:
LOL, I have no idea what the licensing arrangements are in the UK, but surely you have to allow for some progress over 55 years? Yes it may be a bit 'nanny state' now, but it's still better than, 'ride around the block with no helmet, yep, you're good to go mate! No more than two pints on the way home now lad!' 
There's a good argument for better training and stricter testing, but it's unjustifiable that there's a long list of things that "adults" (18 years old) can do, including active military service and driving a lorry, but riding any motorcycle is not one of them.Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff