Motorcycling is slowly dying
Discussion
Only know five "young people " socially and a couple at work. Three don't have a licence for anything, three have car licences and family helping pay for keeping cars on the road. One passed his car licence and couldn't get insured for a car except at ludicrous amounts, sat his A1 instead and loves it. Anecdotal evidence, but that 14% on two wheels is a lot higher than my era 30 years ago. Unsurprisingly the youngsters coming in to biking now don't follow old fart biker culture but have their own scenes I'm vaguely aware exist.
I don't agree that biking is dying, the sub-125 market is probably busier now than 30 years ago. Ebikes are a f
ked up legislative area, they're effectively mopeds, and observably very popular.
I don't agree that biking is dying, the sub-125 market is probably busier now than 30 years ago. Ebikes are a f
ked up legislative area, they're effectively mopeds, and observably very popular. hiccy18 said:
Only know five "young people " socially and a couple at work. Three don't have a licence for anything, three have car licences and family helping pay for keeping cars on the road. One passed his car licence and couldn't get insured for a car except at ludicrous amounts, sat his A1 instead and loves it. Anecdotal evidence, but that 14% on two wheels is a lot higher than my era 30 years ago. Unsurprisingly the youngsters coming in to biking now don't follow old fart biker culture but have their own scenes I'm vaguely aware exist.
I don't agree that biking is dying, the sub-125 market is probably busier now than 30 years ago. Ebikes are a fked up legislative area, they're effectively mopeds, and observably very popular.
One local bike dealer would agree about the 125 market. Reckons he’d be out of business already if he hadn’t refocused exclusively on selling Taiwanese scooters. I don't agree that biking is dying, the sub-125 market is probably busier now than 30 years ago. Ebikes are a f
ked up legislative area, they're effectively mopeds, and observably very popular. Definitely see plenty of 125s around but little evidence of the L plates coming off because riders are actually graduating through a full test. Which is hardly surprising when the rinse & repeat of CBT allows indefinite cheap commuting/deliverooing or drug dealing transport without the bother of getting a full licence.
Unfortunately I doubt the growth of learner legal sales translates into greater genuine enthusiasm for biking these days.
bigothunter said:
gareth_r said:
The licence regime was obviously designed to kill motorcycling in pursuit of Vision Zero.
It's had the desired effect.
Yup, changed radically since I started riding back in 1969 It's had the desired effect.
I passed my test a couple of weeks ago at 34, rode a 50cc and 125cc bike on a cbt at 16/17 and always said id get my test and a big bike sorted, and its taken until now to be able to justify the expense/ be able to afford to do the bike lessons and tests then cost of a bike and the insurance and gear etc.
Id imagine im not the only one that's put it off purely as the expense is beyond what you can justify for more of a hobby than a realistic means of every day transport in our climate.
Every lesson i did as well as my mod 2 was in the pissing rain and it just reminded me of winter days at 17 getting to work frozen and soaked on my aprillia rs and it was enough to remind me why i hadn't stuck with bikes over a car with its nice dry warm interior.
I think in general lots of youngsters have been priced off the roads by the daft insurance costs, cars and bikes these days tho!
Id imagine im not the only one that's put it off purely as the expense is beyond what you can justify for more of a hobby than a realistic means of every day transport in our climate.
Every lesson i did as well as my mod 2 was in the pissing rain and it just reminded me of winter days at 17 getting to work frozen and soaked on my aprillia rs and it was enough to remind me why i hadn't stuck with bikes over a car with its nice dry warm interior.
I think in general lots of youngsters have been priced off the roads by the daft insurance costs, cars and bikes these days tho!
Bob_Defly said:
LOL, I have no idea what the licensing arrangements are in the UK, but surely you have to allow for some progress over 55 years? Yes it may be a bit 'nanny state' now, but it's still better than, 'ride around the block with no helmet, yep, you're good to go mate! No more than two pints on the way home now lad!'
Probably not too far away from the truth back then. 
I gavevup.biking temporarily in 1988, mid air, whilst my RD350LC was about 10 foot away smashing its self into a lamp post. I wasn't damaged other than my trainers were ripped, and my arse was bruised, but I rebuilt it, resprayed it and decided to sell it in order to buy a mini 1000, to assist my fiancé in passing her driving test.
Then life, work, marriage, lack of money kids got in the way. I nearly bought a C Reg, road legal ex Production race GSX750R, because i figured i could get to work quicker, but on the way to put a deposit down I wrote off my car. That was 2002, some 14 years later.
14 years after that, I was looking at buying an FZR400, off a "friend" did lots of research about kit and helmets, and backntomboking training, but then something stopped me. No idea what. Oh yes my wife's shoulder problem...anyway.
Years later...... It's not going to happen is it.
Then life, work, marriage, lack of money kids got in the way. I nearly bought a C Reg, road legal ex Production race GSX750R, because i figured i could get to work quicker, but on the way to put a deposit down I wrote off my car. That was 2002, some 14 years later.
14 years after that, I was looking at buying an FZR400, off a "friend" did lots of research about kit and helmets, and backntomboking training, but then something stopped me. No idea what. Oh yes my wife's shoulder problem...anyway.
Years later...... It's not going to happen is it.
Bob_Defly said:
LOL, I have no idea what the licensing arrangements are in the UK, but surely you have to allow for some progress over 55 years? Yes it may be a bit 'nanny state' now, but it's still better than, 'ride around the block with no helmet, yep, you're good to go mate! No more than two pints on the way home now lad!'
There's a good argument for better training and stricter testing, but it's unjustifiable that there's a long list of things that "adults" (18 years old) can do, including active military service and driving a lorry, but riding any motorcycle is not one of them.My father used to tell me about his motorcycling days (60's & 70's). How they used to cruise everywhere at 90mph and toy with police, because bikes being so much faster than the cars at the time, Police stood no hope of catching them. I never quite got to experience that level of freedom, but there was still a lot of it to be found in riding a bike by the time I made it onto the roads. Bikes were still much cheaper, faster, and more exciting than anything else on them, and other road users were practically static obstacles on an enormous racetrack - albeit one with an occasional marshall waving a yellow flag.
More traffic, poorer driving standards, quicker vehicles and the explosion of camera's in recent years, (speed cameras, CCTV, mobile phone, drone, dash etc) all ensure it'll never be what it was. However, that doesn't mean it can't still be something great.
My bet for the future is that as all forms of E-bikes become more affordable, the on-road bikes will be the preferred choice of the frugal, and the off-road space will become the place for sh*ts and giggles.
More traffic, poorer driving standards, quicker vehicles and the explosion of camera's in recent years, (speed cameras, CCTV, mobile phone, drone, dash etc) all ensure it'll never be what it was. However, that doesn't mean it can't still be something great.
My bet for the future is that as all forms of E-bikes become more affordable, the on-road bikes will be the preferred choice of the frugal, and the off-road space will become the place for sh*ts and giggles.
I drive past Squires pretty regularly and numbers are certainly down. On a peak sunny Sunday there would be 100s of bikes it still gets busy but this year and last year for the first time I noticed that there were actually quite a lot of cars in the main car park on the busy days when I'm years give by they didn't show any cars at all in the main car park because there wouldn't be room you wouldn't physically have been able to drive a car into that side. There are a few end up at the motorist now too.
I’m 34, I have friends that want to do it but there are usually two hurdles. Financial cost of obtaining license, gear and a bike when they have other priorities. Or an obstructive wife / girlfriend that doesn’t want them to ride.
I have a few friends also in their 20’s and 30’s with licenses but they barely get out due to family commitments etc.
I’ve just got back from a long weekend trip to wales, 7 of us all in our 20’s and 30’s. I must say however I think we also want different things. I imagine the older popular like to have a jaunt to a location and then socialise there for an amount of time before maybe a bit of a loop home. We generally rode for 5-6 hours a day wanting to be on the bikes and Enjoy the roads and we only stopped at one biker cafe in 5 days at wales. The rest of the time we would just stop off at random places for a leg break and drink before heading off again.
I’m not far from Matlock bath, I ride a lot around the peaks and I pass through quite often when it’s busy but I very rarely stop there.
I’ve deleted them now but apps like TikTok/instagram seem to be flooded with younger rider demographics but I generally think they don’t seem to socialise in the same way.
I’ve stopped off at Matlock bath maybe once having passed through some 50 times on the bike. Similarly I’ve been to CMC Clay Cross on the bike at a weekend when it’s been busy and on both occasions I’ve got chatting to people in their 40’s / 50’s who I do now ride with after exchanging details. And when I go out with them we do typically end up stopping off at biker hot spots which I don’t usually do too often.
I still meet up with them now and then but they definitely seem to like the social aspect of having a bacon cob, cuppa, talking about bikes etc whilst being surrounded by others on bikes rather than extended periods hitting country roads etc. I like the social aspect but most of them will ride for 1 hour to socialise for 2 hours. I’d rather ride a lot more than I stand around.
I have a few friends also in their 20’s and 30’s with licenses but they barely get out due to family commitments etc.
I’ve just got back from a long weekend trip to wales, 7 of us all in our 20’s and 30’s. I must say however I think we also want different things. I imagine the older popular like to have a jaunt to a location and then socialise there for an amount of time before maybe a bit of a loop home. We generally rode for 5-6 hours a day wanting to be on the bikes and Enjoy the roads and we only stopped at one biker cafe in 5 days at wales. The rest of the time we would just stop off at random places for a leg break and drink before heading off again.
I’m not far from Matlock bath, I ride a lot around the peaks and I pass through quite often when it’s busy but I very rarely stop there.
I’ve deleted them now but apps like TikTok/instagram seem to be flooded with younger rider demographics but I generally think they don’t seem to socialise in the same way.
I’ve stopped off at Matlock bath maybe once having passed through some 50 times on the bike. Similarly I’ve been to CMC Clay Cross on the bike at a weekend when it’s been busy and on both occasions I’ve got chatting to people in their 40’s / 50’s who I do now ride with after exchanging details. And when I go out with them we do typically end up stopping off at biker hot spots which I don’t usually do too often.
I still meet up with them now and then but they definitely seem to like the social aspect of having a bacon cob, cuppa, talking about bikes etc whilst being surrounded by others on bikes rather than extended periods hitting country roads etc. I like the social aspect but most of them will ride for 1 hour to socialise for 2 hours. I’d rather ride a lot more than I stand around.
Edited by evolution380 on Sunday 30th June 07:39
CrankyCraig said:
My father used to tell me about his motorcycling days (60's & 70's). How they used to cruise everywhere at 90mph and toy with police, because bikes being so much faster than the cars at the time, Police stood no hope of catching them. I never quite got to experience that level of freedom, but there was still a lot of it to be found in riding a bike by the time I made it onto the roads. Bikes were still much cheaper, faster, and more exciting than anything else on them, and other road users were practically static obstacles on an enormous racetrack - albeit one with an occasional marshall waving a yellow flag.
More traffic, poorer driving standards, quicker vehicles and the explosion of camera's in recent years, (speed cameras, CCTV, mobile phone, drone, dash etc) all ensure it'll never be what it was. However, that doesn't mean it can't still be something great.
My bet for the future is that as all forms of E-bikes become more affordable, the on-road bikes will be the preferred choice of the frugal, and the off-road space will become the place for sh*ts and giggles.
I was a dispatch rider in the early 80s and we had the 'Ton up Park Lane Club'.More traffic, poorer driving standards, quicker vehicles and the explosion of camera's in recent years, (speed cameras, CCTV, mobile phone, drone, dash etc) all ensure it'll never be what it was. However, that doesn't mean it can't still be something great.
My bet for the future is that as all forms of E-bikes become more affordable, the on-road bikes will be the preferred choice of the frugal, and the off-road space will become the place for sh*ts and giggles.
You had to hit 100mph headed north. No cameras back then.
Imagine that now, it's 3 lanes up and down and restricted to 20mph.
Even though I live in outer London, I haven't driven or ridden across the centre in years until a few weeks ago on a trip down the A1 and dropping passengers off so I couldn't skip round the M25 or North Circ.
Finchley Road down to Swiss Cottage and continuing over to Marble Arch to drop south on Park Lane. All 20mph, it was so depressing and mind numbing. Awful.
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