Money for nothing

[Staterunner]

My 2019 f30 340i, owned from new, cost me £35,000 (interest free finance, £1000 deposit, now paid off and owned.) After 60,000 miles of country bumpkin thrashing, I've put Birds suspension and Quaiff diff on (£3,500ish all in). JB+ chip (£200). Otherwise stock, 18 inch wheels, no badges at all, and sleeper heaven.

Was this just a blip in time? Looks like today the same updated thing would be £60,000 pounds minimum, 200kg heavier, 9% finance, and would be laden with divisive things (hybrid power, touch screens, fake noise, etc).

Can anybody in a similar nostalgic situation make a case for buying a new petrol car, rather than keeping the last gen going longer than you expected to? BMW keep emailing me, sounding disappointed that I never come to their sales events. Why would I?

I've never kept a car for more than five years, but feel like they'll have to drag this old thing from my cold dead hands.

Thanks all

[Staterunner]

Yes, that's the dilemma. Is the whole model predicated on assuming people with good credit scores probably do not have £20,000 to pay off a balloon, but can be seduced towards a 'better' (often worse) car for higher monthly payments? Don't know. Seems that as the retail model moved from buy to rent, real term costs have doubled. Probably covered a million times on PH, so apologies for pointing out the obvious.

[Staterunner]

Totally agree.

[Staterunner]

@tighnamara From main dealer, Inchape (ex Coopers) in Chelmsford. Was one of the last few F30s knocking around in the network that they were obviously keen to get rid of as the new M-lite models were coming in. From memory, the same big dealer groups were clearing M140s at £28/29K. Looks crazy now, as Civic Type Rs are £50k, 420s are £60k, etc.

[Staterunner]

tighnamara said:

Did well to get that deal, good car to keep long term and as you say with price of new cars now it does seem crazy

Yes, just lucky timing I guess - while the dealer cleared its old models and interest was low.

[NB I live in a bit of Essex that is totally middle of the road, not rich, not poor. Nice place, love it. But it does amaze me when I see gleaming new £60k+ cars parked outside houses with broken fridges and old sofas in the front garden, and no curtains. Don't really get it. And it's pretty normal here. Each to their own, but does seem like priorities have got skewed. I've always loved cars, but not THAT much. Always curtains before cars.]

[Staterunner]

smashy said:

I have a 2018 335d F30 ,I love it. I love the ease of driving it. I had a curtesy 2023 3 series 20i.
I really did not like it,the steering was not good.The suspension felt really hard and crashy the smartphone I drive was so fussy and complicated( and they reckon mobile phones are dangerous). I thought to myself BMW want over £40k for this and it really was not my cup of tea whatsoever. It was such a relief to get back in my own. I have a sunroof and cream interior and it is so light and airy in there,realising you could option those 2 things in a new car.

I look at the new M3 prices for example and to me are £20k over what they "should " be

Edited by smashy on Thursday 20th June 18:05

Agree. Only regret about my cheapo end of line 340 was it's black rather than cream leather (and BMW base leather is like plastic anyway), and no sunroof! Should be a law to have sunroofs. Oh well. 335d awesome. Keep.

[Staterunner]

butch_ said:

How is the Birds suspension? Would you recommend it?

I'm in a similar situation, 340i with the analog dashboard

Hi Butch. It's soooo good; like witchcraft on the right road.

I actually thought the passive MSport set up the car came with wasn't bad at all (I prefer passive to active for several reasons). But I'd thrashed it so badly that it was nearing end of life anyway. Birds' setup, which is their in-house tweaked Eibach/Bilstein hardware, is perfect for me. I do so many miles on fast rolling b roads, that that was my priority. But it's totally plush and comfortable in town also. 100% recommend.

Just dug out my invoice from a few months ago. Was about £1200 inc vat, but I also had the Quaiff diff done - so price may be slightly up for just suspension. You can buy the setup and they'll send if you're too far away, and someone local can fit. If you can stretch to the diff, that's been the single biggest change of all my mini-mods (move to good tyres, chip, suspension, diff). Now never see a traction light come on, and don't feel my life is about to end at any minute on slimy roads.

[Staterunner]

rottenegg said:

Yeah I agree. Times are a changing, and have indeed actually changed for the worse, imo.

It used to be that buying a car was a happy and uplifting life event. Second biggest investment after your home. After signing on the dotted line, you'd turn up to the dealer on collection day, your car was waiting in the showroom under an unveiling cover, a bottle of bubbly and some flowers for the missus, hands shook, keys handed over and off you drive into the sunset feeling all tingly in the gentleman area.

Now, it's sign here, bring it back in 3 years. Your car is parked over there in the corner. Bye mate.

Anyway, nostalgia aside......I bought my 2016 330d with 38K on it outright a couple of years ago and love it to bits. Test drove a couple of G20s with a view of moving the F30 on whilst it still had some value, but nope, not enough of an 'upgrade' to lure me away from my beloved. Plus the sticker price is disproportionately a lot higher for minimal gain.

The G80 is out of the question as it's just too bland and generic for my tastes. F30/31 is the last of the handsome 3 series imo.

Likewise, BMW are pestering me to try a new car but nah, you can keep your current offerings chaps. The 2021 420d I had on loan whilst mine was in for service was awful. Crashy suspension on stupid 20" wheels, persistent rattling from behind my right shoulder, strange infotainment screens that are nowhere near as good as Audi's and the engine had a weird all or nothing power delivery. No thanks. The F30's N57 has a lovely, creamy endless surge by comparison.

RE: Birds custard suspension, worth noting Evolve have recently released some Bilstein dampers tuned for UK roads for the F3x model range. £660 for a set, which is far more reasonable than Birds and ACS setups. By all accounts they work really well with stock M sport springs and Eibach Pro.

Edited by rottenegg on Friday 21st June 20:58

Agree with all that. Yes, suspension is a bit specific to personal use. Can't argue with the points about the Birds price premium and softness over similar components elsewhere. And there are certain days (or on certain roundabouts) where I'd like a stiffer set up. But I do the same 50 or 100 mile journeys whenever I get in the car, and Birds setup is (nearly) perfect for my driving. I'm probably alone in this view on PH, but I really don't like M cars, and am not looking for that feel. I mean, fun. But not for 10,000+ miles a year.

[Staterunner]

rottenegg said:

Is the Bird's setup smoother than the stock M Sport setup on the usual shoddy UK roads?

Likewise, I don't find the standard M Sport suspension to be too bad at all, but if there are improvements to be had, I'm game.

I'm torn between the Evolve UK tuned Bilstein dampers and the Birds setup. The issue is I can't lower the car as the bumper catches on things as it is with the standard ride height, so would only be worse if lowered.

It's certainly no worse at all over potholes. I'd say slightly better, but it's so long since my BMW setup was new that I can't recall. I'm on 18inch wheels and michelin ps5s, so that takes away quite a lot of the jarring.

Birds set up doesn't drop other than the tiniest amount (guessing half a cm), but looks the same to me. Only if you have the standard f30 setup or the xdrive would there be a big drop. As you are m sport, there's no real difference. Don't know which exact Bilsteins Evolve are using, but they do loads of this work - so just tell them what you want and they'll advise. One of the reasons I went with Birds was that I just got bored of researching. Birds' marketing is like - 'look, we've been doing this for years, for these cars, being thrashed around English roads - this is the best we can do for fast road driving'. I quite liked that.

[Staterunner]

rottenegg said:

Thanks for that. Birds have a long standing reputation for ironing out the niggles that ship with standard BMWs, so they definitely inspire confidence.

As you say though, suspension is super subjective. Ride quality, handling, steering feel and brake pedal feel are the hardest things to get right, and there isn't enough data from real world users to make an informed decision. To a lot of people, simply lowering the car with stiffer, flatter cornering is enough of an improvement to call it job done, but I like to delve deeper into those daily potholes, adverse cambers, utility company patchworks, coarse tarmac noise, run flat vs non run flat etc etc blah blah.

I do 25K a year, so I have to tread carefully with suspension. Stock M sport is acceptable on the roads I use, albeit a tad floaty when pushing on, so I wouldn't want to worsen the day to day usability.

And therein lies the rub. What if we were to replace all of the bushings, wheel bearings, drop links, top mounts, dampers etc with fresh OEM replacements, vs an aftermarket kit, would the OEM overhaul restore the car to how it was when new, or does the aftermarket kit disguise worn out chassis components?

Birds use the B6/B8 monotube Bilsteins with dialled back high speed compression damping. Evolve use the B4 dampers with similar tuning, so it's a tough call. Twin tube generally lasts longer than Monotube but I've not heard of anyone reporting short lifespans with the Birds kit.

Sorry, that's way too deep for a Friday night I think I'll just get over myself and get the Birds purchased. Good to hear the ride height drop is minimal!

I confess I haven't spent any time thinking about the peripheral bits and bobs. One more observation: that 'float' with the stock suspension on an undulating fast road is much, much less noticeable with Birds, and probably would be better with the Evolve version too.