Should I buy an E30 M3?!?
Discussion
Probably a silly question to ask here! Hi! 
My first foray into potential BMW ownership...
I've currently got an Integra Type R, probably the best car I have owned, having gone from an Elise and I'm starting to feel the need for RWD etc etc again but I need practicality! I've been drawn to the E30 for ages, actually since I had one as a scalextric car!!! But I would welcome any advice on the following:
1. Budget would be 8-10K, seems I should get something for that but what?
2. Can I use it realistically everyday as my only car. I don't drive that far each day, 20 - 30 miles top whack, but it would be my only car and would need to be used in all weather. Is this a goer? My guess is yes, there are plenty used all the time, but I don't want to try and run one everyday if it is not practical!
3. I've found some reasonable buyers guides, and I feel I've got an idea what I should look for - but any pertinent advice would be good.
4. Old chestnut dealer V private? The Independent Motor Company is very close to me, so I thought I may take a wander over at the weekend, any one know what they are like? My initial thoughts are to buy privately but I don't want a boy raced nightmare and some in the trader seem very cheap!!
All advice on this is very welcome!...
Cheers
My first foray into potential BMW ownership... I've currently got an Integra Type R, probably the best car I have owned, having gone from an Elise and I'm starting to feel the need for RWD etc etc again but I need practicality! I've been drawn to the E30 for ages, actually since I had one as a scalextric car!!! But I would welcome any advice on the following:
1. Budget would be 8-10K, seems I should get something for that but what?
2. Can I use it realistically everyday as my only car. I don't drive that far each day, 20 - 30 miles top whack, but it would be my only car and would need to be used in all weather. Is this a goer? My guess is yes, there are plenty used all the time, but I don't want to try and run one everyday if it is not practical!
3. I've found some reasonable buyers guides, and I feel I've got an idea what I should look for - but any pertinent advice would be good.
4. Old chestnut dealer V private? The Independent Motor Company is very close to me, so I thought I may take a wander over at the weekend, any one know what they are like? My initial thoughts are to buy privately but I don't want a boy raced nightmare and some in the trader seem very cheap!!
All advice on this is very welcome!...
Cheers
The only non-practical point against the M3 is the fact that is is LHD which makes getting into/out of car parks or paying tunnel/road tolls a pain.
Otherwise 200bhp in a relatively light-weight RWD car is lots of fun.
Contrary to the advice of a certain BMW 'specialist. timing chain DOES NOT need to be replaced every 100k miles (at a cost of £1200), although if you find one that is near/over the 100k mile mark you could use this worry as a negotiating point (should knock £500-£1000 off).
As long as the tensioner has been replaced for the later E36 M3 variant then the chain can easily last 200k miles plus.
There is one in AutoTrader right now going for £4995 and is advertised as 'excellent condition'.
Otherwise 200bhp in a relatively light-weight RWD car is lots of fun.
Contrary to the advice of a certain BMW 'specialist. timing chain DOES NOT need to be replaced every 100k miles (at a cost of £1200), although if you find one that is near/over the 100k mile mark you could use this worry as a negotiating point (should knock £500-£1000 off).
As long as the tensioner has been replaced for the later E36 M3 variant then the chain can easily last 200k miles plus.
There is one in AutoTrader right now going for £4995 and is advertised as 'excellent condition'.
I've owned one for three years...took me two years to find the car I wanted...been driving BMW's for 21 years now...So here goes with my opinion(s)on your questions:
1)Your budget of £8-10 is a good one! For all but EVO Sports you should be able to get a very nice car these days. Beware of anything that seems 'too cheap'...it's very easy to spend another £2-3K on one of these cars. As with most older cars, I reckon the advice should always be "buy the best you can afford" rather than a cheapie in the hope of bringing it up to scratch.
2)Yes, I think you can run one as an everyday car BUT I'd question whether they really are that good an everyday car for the following reasons. They're not that comfortable, they lack low down torque so you can't be too lazy about driving them and things can be expensive if they go wrong or wear out. I'm fortunate in that we own 4 BMWs between my wife and I and I place the E30 M3 as 'the third or fourth'.As a daily driver I actually reckon my 325i Touring is a better car. It's reasonably quick (ok...it doesn't handle like the M3),has more low down torque,is reasonably comfortable, cheap to run and if the worst came to the worst and something disasterous went wrong it's value is almost in the 'disposible car' bracket now...so I don't have to worry about driving it everyday!
3)If you have read some decent buyer's guides and know a bit about cars anyway you should be ok...there's nothing that complicated about these cars. The bodywork is already 'post really rusty BMW' days and with your budget you shouldn't be looking at neglected ones anyway. My only bit of advice is DON'T BELIEVE all the '100k miles timing-chain service crap'...because that's what it is...crap! I and any of the people I used to talk to on 'Roadfly'came to the conclusion that this pile of nonense was bandered about by a certain 'specialist garage' down south who would then charge an exorbitant price to do the job!
4)As for dealer v private?...Look at both! As I said I looked for 2 years...I ended up buying privately.The guy I bought the car from had looked at 13 cars before he bought this one! There's a certain dealer I would NOT deal with...but you can decide for yourself who that it is!
When I was looking myself I contacted 'Independent'...they seemed pretty straightforward to me. At the time I was actually (almost) considering a Lancia Integrale instead and at that time Independent also dealt in them. The guy there was very upfront with me and said given the two he'd advise against the Integrale as they were just too unreliable and they were getting too many being brought back with problems. They were planning to stop dealing in them even though he could quite easily have tried to sell me one of their remaining cars. OK, they were charging a bit more for their M3's than privately but they have to make a living too? Certainly their prices weren't as stupidly high as 'the dealer I won't deal with'
In terms of the very cheap ones you see in Autotrader?...well it doesn't harm you to look but as I said above you need to be very wary? Over the past couple of years the E30 M3 market seems to polarising (inevitable I guess?) between 'cheap stuff' at around the £5K (or even less!) mark and the rarer 'good stuff' which seems to have stuck around your budget mark. There isn't much inbetween.
If you want anymore help/opinions feel free to email.
Best of luck!
Here's a link to my car (if you haven't found it already?) www.bmwclassics.co.uk/page_m3.html
Regards
Derin
1)Your budget of £8-10 is a good one! For all but EVO Sports you should be able to get a very nice car these days. Beware of anything that seems 'too cheap'...it's very easy to spend another £2-3K on one of these cars. As with most older cars, I reckon the advice should always be "buy the best you can afford" rather than a cheapie in the hope of bringing it up to scratch.
2)Yes, I think you can run one as an everyday car BUT I'd question whether they really are that good an everyday car for the following reasons. They're not that comfortable, they lack low down torque so you can't be too lazy about driving them and things can be expensive if they go wrong or wear out. I'm fortunate in that we own 4 BMWs between my wife and I and I place the E30 M3 as 'the third or fourth'.As a daily driver I actually reckon my 325i Touring is a better car. It's reasonably quick (ok...it doesn't handle like the M3),has more low down torque,is reasonably comfortable, cheap to run and if the worst came to the worst and something disasterous went wrong it's value is almost in the 'disposible car' bracket now...so I don't have to worry about driving it everyday!
3)If you have read some decent buyer's guides and know a bit about cars anyway you should be ok...there's nothing that complicated about these cars. The bodywork is already 'post really rusty BMW' days and with your budget you shouldn't be looking at neglected ones anyway. My only bit of advice is DON'T BELIEVE all the '100k miles timing-chain service crap'...because that's what it is...crap! I and any of the people I used to talk to on 'Roadfly'came to the conclusion that this pile of nonense was bandered about by a certain 'specialist garage' down south who would then charge an exorbitant price to do the job!
4)As for dealer v private?...Look at both! As I said I looked for 2 years...I ended up buying privately.The guy I bought the car from had looked at 13 cars before he bought this one! There's a certain dealer I would NOT deal with...but you can decide for yourself who that it is!
When I was looking myself I contacted 'Independent'...they seemed pretty straightforward to me. At the time I was actually (almost) considering a Lancia Integrale instead and at that time Independent also dealt in them. The guy there was very upfront with me and said given the two he'd advise against the Integrale as they were just too unreliable and they were getting too many being brought back with problems. They were planning to stop dealing in them even though he could quite easily have tried to sell me one of their remaining cars. OK, they were charging a bit more for their M3's than privately but they have to make a living too? Certainly their prices weren't as stupidly high as 'the dealer I won't deal with'
In terms of the very cheap ones you see in Autotrader?...well it doesn't harm you to look but as I said above you need to be very wary? Over the past couple of years the E30 M3 market seems to polarising (inevitable I guess?) between 'cheap stuff' at around the £5K (or even less!) mark and the rarer 'good stuff' which seems to have stuck around your budget mark. There isn't much inbetween.
If you want anymore help/opinions feel free to email.
Best of luck!
Here's a link to my car (if you haven't found it already?) www.bmwclassics.co.uk/page_m3.html
Regards
Derin
Totally agree with 'M-Five' above...that is the only downside of LHD ie car park barriers etc!
Even overtaking isn't a problem with LHD...if you overtake as you should do and don't try sitting right behind the thing your overtaking the fact that you are 2-3 feet further to the left makes very little difference.
Glad someone else here agrees on the Timing chain issue! I have the E36 M3 tensioner fitted to mine...cost me about £50-60 to buy and about 15 minutes to fit! It's so cheap an' easy to do it seems almost churlish not to?
BTW...that certain 'specialist down south' were charging people A LOT more £1200 to do the timing chain!
Even overtaking isn't a problem with LHD...if you overtake as you should do and don't try sitting right behind the thing your overtaking the fact that you are 2-3 feet further to the left makes very little difference.
Glad someone else here agrees on the Timing chain issue! I have the E36 M3 tensioner fitted to mine...cost me about £50-60 to buy and about 15 minutes to fit! It's so cheap an' easy to do it seems almost churlish not to?
BTW...that certain 'specialist down south' were charging people A LOT more £1200 to do the timing chain!
I rather like mine.Cheers Guys!
I'll be selling the Integra first so I'll look at a couple now, I won't have all the cash so can't be tempted! And these can act as my benchmark. Most of the mechanical stuff, eg timing chain, I was aware of - but it is good to hear again. I assumed the biggest potential headache would be body condition and potential crash damage, hence the need not to buy a boy razzed one!!!
Rawness is not too much of an issue - the elise certainly was raw and in its own way the Integra is pretty focused, I don't do much in the way of motorway driving and the route to work is pretty nice.... LHD I guess will be an aquired taste!
Cheers again! If anyone hears of a good one up for sale at any time please let me know!!!!!
I'll be selling the Integra first so I'll look at a couple now, I won't have all the cash so can't be tempted! And these can act as my benchmark. Most of the mechanical stuff, eg timing chain, I was aware of - but it is good to hear again. I assumed the biggest potential headache would be body condition and potential crash damage, hence the need not to buy a boy razzed one!!!
Rawness is not too much of an issue - the elise certainly was raw and in its own way the Integra is pretty focused, I don't do much in the way of motorway driving and the route to work is pretty nice.... LHD I guess will be an aquired taste!
Cheers again! If anyone hears of a good one up for sale at any time please let me know!!!!!
If you do at any point give me a shout!!!!!Yes, you should go and buy one, but please wait until I have bought the 'right' one first
I sold my old Sterling silver one to a guy in Essex back in 2001 and I miss it so much.
I needed the cash and ended up with a cheap manual 535i. It's served me well but its time to re-visit M3 ownership.
I should have the money in the next few weeks so I've just started to keep my eye on the classifieds and so on. Bad mistake really as I now find I am desperate to call some of them and go take a look, but I don't have the cash yet so I am just torturing myself!
I actually put a deposit on an Evo Sport just over a year ago and then realised that I couldn't justify leaving one of those on the driveway and backed out, the dealer was very nice and understood my problem and let me have the cash back.
What was the one like at Independant? I was looking at that on Autotrader.
I also visited that dealer down south recently and saw a nice Macau Blue one but it was very overpriced.
Good luck anyway.
Mags
>> Edited by Mags on Monday 19th January 10:34
I sold my old Sterling silver one to a guy in Essex back in 2001 and I miss it so much.
I needed the cash and ended up with a cheap manual 535i. It's served me well but its time to re-visit M3 ownership.
I should have the money in the next few weeks so I've just started to keep my eye on the classifieds and so on. Bad mistake really as I now find I am desperate to call some of them and go take a look, but I don't have the cash yet so I am just torturing myself!
I actually put a deposit on an Evo Sport just over a year ago and then realised that I couldn't justify leaving one of those on the driveway and backed out, the dealer was very nice and understood my problem and let me have the cash back.
What was the one like at Independant? I was looking at that on Autotrader.
I also visited that dealer down south recently and saw a nice Macau Blue one but it was very overpriced.
Good luck anyway.
Mags
>> Edited by Mags on Monday 19th January 10:34
Hi Mags
If you're still after an EVO SPORT...I booked my car into Moseley Motorsport to go in this Thursday to do the valve shims and change the brake fluid (as they didn't have time to do it at the last Inspection II...they were "..off to Le Mans!" Do they have a laugh or what?)
Anyway, whilst I was there I saw that Nigel Moseley still has a black EVO Sport there and I know it's for sale...because it was for sale when I took my car there for the service back in June! Might be worth giving him a call as the price may have 'mellowed' now?
I bet you do miss yours...Sterling Silver is a super colour especially on the E30 M3! My mother has an E30 Touring in Sterling and I have to admit I prefer that shade of silver to my Lachs Silver 735i!
If I do decide to sell mine it won't be until later in the year. I've just renewed the year's Tax and insurance this week. Still, under £290 for a year's fully comp (on a 5000 mile limit) is pretty good, huh?
I'm just wary of selling it and then regretting it...just like I did when I sold the 3.0CS that I'd owned for 13 years
Cheers
If you're still after an EVO SPORT...I booked my car into Moseley Motorsport to go in this Thursday to do the valve shims and change the brake fluid (as they didn't have time to do it at the last Inspection II...they were "..off to Le Mans!" Do they have a laugh or what?)
Anyway, whilst I was there I saw that Nigel Moseley still has a black EVO Sport there and I know it's for sale...because it was for sale when I took my car there for the service back in June! Might be worth giving him a call as the price may have 'mellowed' now?
I bet you do miss yours...Sterling Silver is a super colour especially on the E30 M3! My mother has an E30 Touring in Sterling and I have to admit I prefer that shade of silver to my Lachs Silver 735i!
If I do decide to sell mine it won't be until later in the year. I've just renewed the year's Tax and insurance this week. Still, under £290 for a year's fully comp (on a 5000 mile limit) is pretty good, huh?
I'm just wary of selling it and then regretting it...just like I did when I sold the 3.0CS that I'd owned for 13 years
Cheers
Yes! Got to be one of THE classics of the '80s so a good example is always going to command decent money so if you look after it and buy wisely it should be quite cheap to run long term.
No reason at all why a late '80s BMW cant be used daily (they new how to build 'em them days!)
Make mine Laches Silver, Dolphin Grey, Diamond black with full leather please
No reason at all why a late '80s BMW cant be used daily (they new how to build 'em them days!)
Make mine Laches Silver, Dolphin Grey, Diamond black with full leather please
Hmmm, I expect the Evo Sport is out of my price range but it might be worth a call anyway. I haven't exactly set a price yet (or my wife hasn't anyway 
)but I'm thinking I should get a good'un for less than 10K.
I would just feel really guilty with and Evo Sport sat on the drive when it should be tucked up in the garage.
Funnily enough I was cleaning out an old PC at the weekend and found some pictures of my old M3, It almost bought tears to my eyes, Sterling silver is such a great colour for E30's, I wish I'd had kept it.
Never mind, as soon as I get the cash I'm going hunting.
What happened to some of the E30 M3 web sites? there was a few with chassis numbers and the engine power, I'm really after a later car with the 215/220 bhp engine. My last one was a 215 spanish import with a cat, it also never had side repeaters wich made it much cleaner. Ahh memories....
Mags
)but I'm thinking I should get a good'un for less than 10K. I would just feel really guilty with and Evo Sport sat on the drive when it should be tucked up in the garage.
Funnily enough I was cleaning out an old PC at the weekend and found some pictures of my old M3, It almost bought tears to my eyes, Sterling silver is such a great colour for E30's, I wish I'd had kept it.
Never mind, as soon as I get the cash I'm going hunting.
What happened to some of the E30 M3 web sites? there was a few with chassis numbers and the engine power, I'm really after a later car with the 215/220 bhp engine. My last one was a 215 spanish import with a cat, it also never had side repeaters wich made it much cleaner. Ahh memories....
Mags
derin100 said:
Anyway, whilst I was there I saw that Nigel Moseley still has a black EVO Sport there and I know it's for sale...because it was for sale when I took my car there for the service back in June! Might be worth giving him a call as the price may have 'mellowed' now?
Not too sure about the pricing mellowing - it's becoming really difficult to find a standard e30 m3 (regardless of type) with reasonable miles, good service records that hasn't been abused or modified. When I advertised mine I received loads of interest from the continent as most decent cars have now been imported into the UK over the last 4-6 years, it was sold for more than I paid for it.
£8-10k will get a nice, useable car with about 80k miles. As mentioned above, the timing chain issue is a myth started by a well known specialist to get £2k out of every punter that walks through their door. Keep an eye on it and if it gets noisy on start up get it looked at. There are cars with well over 130k miles that sound perfect.
Anything with less than 60k miles is going to command at least £12.5k and minters will go for £14k+.
Don't be drawn into the pre-cat/post-cat debates though, you'll hardly notice the difference between a 195 bhp and a 215 bhp car, it's not a muscle car and will not win any traffic light races.
My old sport evo was supposed to put out 238bhp but I doubt it delivered more than 225 bhp in the rudest of health.
Good luck on your search!
Hi Mags (and others!)
I didn't get to look last weekend - I ended up very busy but hopefully this weekend...
Not looked at any yet but hopefully I will v soon. I have the same issues as youy regarding storage, whatever I buy will have to stay on the drive so I will balance between being usable everyday and nice and completely pristine and paranoia!!! The LHD issue is not such a worry, I used to drive a LHD LWB Land Rover at Uni, that thing was a tank and after a day I was pretty sorted with it.
Just got to sell the integra and find some time!!!
I didn't get to look last weekend - I ended up very busy but hopefully this weekend...
Not looked at any yet but hopefully I will v soon. I have the same issues as youy regarding storage, whatever I buy will have to stay on the drive so I will balance between being usable everyday and nice and completely pristine and paranoia!!! The LHD issue is not such a worry, I used to drive a LHD LWB Land Rover at Uni, that thing was a tank and after a day I was pretty sorted with it.
Just got to sell the integra and find some time!!!
Agree with AC79 on the points above... I've even had (unsolicited) requests in the past from the Continent to buy my M3...last year even from a main dealership in Norway!
I also agree that in truth I reckon the power difference across the range (if used 'off track') probably doesn't make much difference. I've pretty much driven the full spectrum and they all felt the same to me...even the EVO Sport I drove...but then again it was someone elses car so I didn't really 'open it up'!
It's also true that it isn't a muscle car to use in 'Traffic Light Grand Prix'. However, it is a car that flatters even the most mediorce drivers into feeling like they're an accomplished racing driver...Hell! It even makes me look good!!!
By the way, Mags...I have a horrible feeling I may have a pic of your car (did it have black leather?)...Once I figure out how to post pics on this site I'll do it...just to rub salt in the wound...LOL
I also agree that in truth I reckon the power difference across the range (if used 'off track') probably doesn't make much difference. I've pretty much driven the full spectrum and they all felt the same to me...even the EVO Sport I drove...but then again it was someone elses car so I didn't really 'open it up'!
It's also true that it isn't a muscle car to use in 'Traffic Light Grand Prix'. However, it is a car that flatters even the most mediorce drivers into feeling like they're an accomplished racing driver...Hell! It even makes me look good!!!
By the way, Mags...I have a horrible feeling I may have a pic of your car (did it have black leather?)...Once I figure out how to post pics on this site I'll do it...just to rub salt in the wound...LOL
Is this your ex-car Mags?
www.thee32register.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=7907
Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to post a pic on this site but I posted it to the UK E32 Register site...hope you can access it without the hassle of having to register?
Regards
www.thee32register.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=7907
Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to post a pic on this site but I posted it to the UK E32 Register site...hope you can access it without the hassle of having to register?
Regards
Yes! that's her.
Where does that picture come from? when I advertised her for sale? that was back in sept/Oct 2001
I wonder if the same guy still owns her now?
I saw a really nice looking Sterling silver one (although it was a convertible) at Munich Legends a few weeks back with BBS wheels, think they were RX's (the one with centre caps) It suited the car well and looked very tidy. A couple of slightly Lax power details let it down but otherwise it looked good.
I looked at buying those RX wheels a few years ago but managed to get hold of a set of original 16" M3 wheels so took those instead as they are pretty hard to find.
Stupid man for selling, stupid stupid
Also, Derin you said your insurance was only 290, is tha on a classic policy? with who?
>> Edited by Mags on Thursday 22 January 09:45
Where does that picture come from? when I advertised her for sale? that was back in sept/Oct 2001
I wonder if the same guy still owns her now?
I saw a really nice looking Sterling silver one (although it was a convertible) at Munich Legends a few weeks back with BBS wheels, think they were RX's (the one with centre caps) It suited the car well and looked very tidy. A couple of slightly Lax power details let it down but otherwise it looked good.
I looked at buying those RX wheels a few years ago but managed to get hold of a set of original 16" M3 wheels so took those instead as they are pretty hard to find.
Stupid man for selling, stupid stupid
Also, Derin you said your insurance was only 290, is tha on a classic policy? with who?
>> Edited by Mags on Thursday 22 January 09:45
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