Discussion
Uhm, must admit I'm a little confused now! Autocar seem to love it & consider it worth the extra money whereas EVO dont seem to.
I do have one on order & am now questioning this?
There seem to be a few cancellations happenning - Altwood in Maidenhead have one sitting in the showroom ready to buy - at 'list' of course & the speculators seem to have caught a small cold.
Think Im going to contact my dealer / BMW & insist on driving it before going through with this now.
Cheers
paul
I do have one on order & am now questioning this?
There seem to be a few cancellations happenning - Altwood in Maidenhead have one sitting in the showroom ready to buy - at 'list' of course & the speculators seem to have caught a small cold.
Think Im going to contact my dealer / BMW & insist on driving it before going through with this now.
Cheers
paul
I think that's a good idea, often magazine articles can scare you into thinking you have made the wrong decision, but until you try, i wouldn't make your mind up just yet, and even if you do change your mind after you've bought it, I am sure somebody will be willing to pay at least list for it.
You're paying for all that carbon, amongst other things, which is ultra cool
and gives it much more street cred than the standard M3, go with your original feelings, you would probably regret not owning one
You're paying for all that carbon, amongst other things, which is ultra cool
and gives it much more street cred than the standard M3, go with your original feelings, you would probably regret not owning oneFor me the CSL is a strange one. Part of the attraction of the standard M3 is that its a jack of all trades - 4 seats, creature comforts, big boot but also 343bhp on tap.
IMO the CSL looks fantastic but other than that the only reason I can think for buying one is the exhaust note. And obviously the fact that you'll have a different, more exclusive M3.
The main reason for its handling improvements seems to be the incredibly sticky rubber which is supposed to be a liability in the wet. Its not that much more powerful than the standard car and not that much lighter.
What I want to know is why didn't BMW go down the serious track car route. Really strip out the interior, take out the back seats, stick a rollcage in etc. That way it really would be a lighweight racer and might have stood a chance against the GT3 without the mad new tyres.
It looks like BMW panicked at some point and decided to make the car a halfway house between the current M3 and the ligthweight racer that was proposed in the first place.
Its a real shame IMO as a stripped out M3 could have made a very interesting trackcar.
IMO the CSL looks fantastic but other than that the only reason I can think for buying one is the exhaust note. And obviously the fact that you'll have a different, more exclusive M3.
The main reason for its handling improvements seems to be the incredibly sticky rubber which is supposed to be a liability in the wet. Its not that much more powerful than the standard car and not that much lighter.
What I want to know is why didn't BMW go down the serious track car route. Really strip out the interior, take out the back seats, stick a rollcage in etc. That way it really would be a lighweight racer and might have stood a chance against the GT3 without the mad new tyres.
It looks like BMW panicked at some point and decided to make the car a halfway house between the current M3 and the ligthweight racer that was proposed in the first place.
Its a real shame IMO as a stripped out M3 could have made a very interesting trackcar.
I owned an E46 M3 for nearly two years. Everything I've read about the CSL's handling seems to be exactly consistent with how I found my own car to handle on Dunlop Formula-R semi-slicks (D01J), i.e. ludicrous grip, no understeer, lots of road noise, ultra-sharp turn-in and skittish in the wet.
Try a decent set of sticky rubber on your M3 first and then test drive the CSL (if possible).
Ian.
Try a decent set of sticky rubber on your M3 first and then test drive the CSL (if possible).
Ian.
Go to germany, pick up a 2 yr old LHD E46 M3 for around GBP 25k, strip it, put in a cage, some decent brakes, bang some D01Js (dunlop) or pilot sport cups (michelin) on and you're away. CSL for 60k. You're having a laugh - it's not worth 2/3 of that - look at the amount of cancelled orders and the 'residuals' (already).....
I reckon the CSL will be a great car. As a four seater with a sensible boot it has been designed to ourperform the latest GT3 (which is exceptionally fast) on the road, has sleeping policeman ground clearance and real exclusivity, all for the price of a bog standard C2.
In addition the current road tests have been on low mileage cars, and the original test car performance figures of last year were almost 10% faster.
If only on a power to weight ratio, I can't believe that we have seen the best of these cars.
On the tyres front, BMW recommend as a winter alternative the Michellin Pilot Sport, so I would be interested to read how it performas on those.
In the latest Autocar PCOTY2003 a not unreasonable reassessment of the value and style of the M3 against the GT3 would have given the M3CSL second place to the Ferrari 360CS, saving £74k (and £14k over the GT3), so if you could use four seats, need a boot and don't want to ground over every careless copper, I reckon a list price CSL will be a very good buy.
As for image, just look at the first CSL now.
The only reason prices are currently under pressure is that due to factory build time constraints, 500 cars are being delivered over three months into a market that's becoming tight. For what has to be seen as an expensive and specialist car, that's a lot of units.
In addition the current road tests have been on low mileage cars, and the original test car performance figures of last year were almost 10% faster.
If only on a power to weight ratio, I can't believe that we have seen the best of these cars.
On the tyres front, BMW recommend as a winter alternative the Michellin Pilot Sport, so I would be interested to read how it performas on those.
In the latest Autocar PCOTY2003 a not unreasonable reassessment of the value and style of the M3 against the GT3 would have given the M3CSL second place to the Ferrari 360CS, saving £74k (and £14k over the GT3), so if you could use four seats, need a boot and don't want to ground over every careless copper, I reckon a list price CSL will be a very good buy.
As for image, just look at the first CSL now.
The only reason prices are currently under pressure is that due to factory build time constraints, 500 cars are being delivered over three months into a market that's becoming tight. For what has to be seen as an expensive and specialist car, that's a lot of units.
Droid42 said:
I owned an E46 M3 for nearly two years. Everything I've read about the CSL's handling seems to be exactly consistent with how I found my own car to handle on Dunlop Formula-R semi-slicks (D01J), i.e. ludicrous grip, no understeer, lots of road noise, ultra-sharp turn-in and skittish in the wet.
Try a decent set of sticky rubber on your M3 first and then test drive the CSL (if possible).
Ian.
Of course, the CSL also has *much* improved suspension. There is hardly any roll at all. When I first drove it, my old E46 M3 felt like a wallowy old Roller! I know it wasn't, but that's how it felt in comparison.
My CSL arrived this week and has done 500 miles.
I am getting used to the SMG gearchage --- a completely new experience after 30 year experience with dozens of manual boxes, and I have to say the whole car feels rather good and it's beautifully made, though possibly not quite as solid as the Porsche. On the other hand, BMW have just stripped out 150 Kg !
Not bad on the motorway either.
Previous drives --- 205 1.9 GTI, BDG engined Caterham, Clio Williams, Peugeot 306 GTI6, RS 2000, Honda Integra, Impreza P1, Boxster S, 996 Carrera 4, Lotus Elise, yet to try the GT3 --- !
Now that people are driving them, do I see prices firming up ? Maybe it's worth checking out the list price car that's advertised in the Pistonheads classifieds. Is it still available ?
Although it sounds too good to be true it might be legit --- I sold a 996 C4S at list last year because I had bought a secondhand C4 and couldn't justify the extra cost ...
I am getting used to the SMG gearchage --- a completely new experience after 30 year experience with dozens of manual boxes, and I have to say the whole car feels rather good and it's beautifully made, though possibly not quite as solid as the Porsche. On the other hand, BMW have just stripped out 150 Kg !
Not bad on the motorway either.
Previous drives --- 205 1.9 GTI, BDG engined Caterham, Clio Williams, Peugeot 306 GTI6, RS 2000, Honda Integra, Impreza P1, Boxster S, 996 Carrera 4, Lotus Elise, yet to try the GT3 --- !
Now that people are driving them, do I see prices firming up ? Maybe it's worth checking out the list price car that's advertised in the Pistonheads classifieds. Is it still available ?
Although it sounds too good to be true it might be legit --- I sold a 996 C4S at list last year because I had bought a secondhand C4 and couldn't justify the extra cost ...
BMWM said:
Is it worth getting and is it worth paying the premium ?
I currently have an M3 and was looking to get something a bit more special.
get your hands on a TVR cerbera BMWM. Cheaper than the M3 and much faster. I had an M3 until last month and theres no way I could go back. The M3 feels like a shopping trolley compared with the TVR. I took a potetnial buyer out for a drive in it a few weeks back and thought it had something wrong with it as I remember it beig quite fast. Must more speed and attention in the TVR especially with the tuscan alloys.
www.cerbera.orgjohn_p said:
.. and buy another car to depend on day to day!
exactly my thoughts when I was looking at them john_p. Once you've driven one, theres no going back. It's a supercar for sweetys money. If you get a good one and are prepared to take an extra hit with a good warranty 500squids each year it's all worth it. Back to the M3's one day, when I'm a bit more sensible
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