E36 3 series Compact. What engines realistically fit in one?

[PJR]

Pork n Beems post reminded me of an idea i've had for quite a while, and never quite went away. But, I didn't want to gatecrash his post. So..

I was never a fan of the E36 generally, but the Compact variant somehow stood out as a nice little package. What a shame then that here in the UK they were only sold with somewhat uncharismatic, small capacity 4 cylinder engines (Im ignoring the E46 series compact).
I know in a couple of countries the E36 compact was available in 6 cylinder 323i form. This is a bit closer to what im after, but still falls short of the mark.
Naturally the front end of this car is the same as any other E36, so any E36 engine should go in there a treat. I've even seen an E36 or 2 with V12 engines squeezed in (For those interested, take a look at this www.modifiedcars.com/cars/BMW/6015.htm ). This however is complete overkill, and not what im after at all.. But it does demonstrate that even the biggest BMW engine fits (Although who knows how much buggering about was needed to get that in there!?).

However, a V8 from a 5 series should go? (I do like the idea of a V8!) But if that would mean too much hacking about then a venerable straight 6, preferably in 3.0 guise seems ideal too. Would one from an E46 (or similar) fit?
Also, Im assuming that if the base car is a manual for example, then so should the new engine and box be a manual. Or if an auto car, then engine with auto box. But for ease of conversion, im thinking to keep it all manual would make everything more straightforward.
I expect the most logical option is a 6 pot M3 engine & box, but i'd suspect these are quite sought after/expensive. This isn't going to be a big budget affair, so it all has to be as "bolt in" and oem as possible. If it all works out, then the car will likely become a (fun) daily driver. It wont be a track car or anything like that, and whatever engine goes in is likely to be kept more or less unmodified.

While im here, if any of you guys have some links for specialist BMW breakers handy, then it would be appreciated. Google turns up surprisingly little yet I know they are out there, although I did find www.fabdirect.com Also, I could likely do much of the work myself, but I don't quite have all the tools/facilities needed. So any contacts for people/companies that can assist in the north London/Herts region would also be much appreciated.

All tips/tricks/ideas/suggestions welcome!

P,

[GTS Turbo]

i know and have seen an M3 engine in that but never heard of anyone putting a V8 into one

[m3evo2]

Yeah me to seen a M3 engined Compact, nothing bigger but would be interesting. Stuck to the standard mods route for ours but a bigger engine or perhaps supercharger would be nice.

[Top pup]

As they built the E36 compact with the M52 2.3 (2.5) i would have thought any of the M52/M54 engines would be a straight foward bolt in job, with all the bits available off the shelf. A 2.8 or 3.0 should be cheap enough to get hold of too (An M3 motor would be nice though).

[Neil_Bolton]

PJR said:

I've even seen an E36 or 2 with V12 engines squeezed in (For those interested, take a look at this www.modifiedcars.com/cars/BMW/6015.htm ). This however is complete overkill, and not what im after at all.. But it does demonstrate that even the biggest BMW engine fits (Although who knows how much buggering about was needed to get that in there!?).

Good Lord! I've not seen/heard of that being done before, but i so very very much need that in my life (although in a coupé not a compact).

I've seen plenty of V8s in the E36 and Hartgé did it as a standard model (B8 I think).

Seeing as the E36 compact is the same up front as the rest of the range, I should think anything will go.

Now to be honest, you'll find the V12s cheaper than the V8s as these are less sought after for this very sort of thing.

Personally, if I had the wherewithall to do this sort of thing, I could only bring myself to use the V12 - two of the straight sixes togther?

You can never have too much power

Good luck though - keep us posted

Edited by Neil_Bolton on Saturday 19th May 20:25

[m3evo2]

Racing Dynamics did a V12 E36 Compact conversion but the weight of the engine killed the handling.



ETA - http://www.geocities.com/~bmwfanatic/rdk552.html

Edited by m3evo2 on Saturday 19th May 20:54

[PJR]

Neil_Bolton said:

Good Lord!

My sentiments exactly People have been popping those V12 lumps into E30's also. I figured if that was possible, then a BMW V8 should be no problem at all. And who doesn't love the sound of a V8??

However, If its to be a daily driver, then im thinking a sane 6 pot is likely the more practical option, and isn't likely to require much if any hacking about to get the thing in. Plus running costs should be reasonable and it will be more straightforward to work on.
Im not ruling the V8 out just yet mind. I just need to do more research on that option.
Im not too fussed about the 'M' options either. I don't want a screamer. But 230+bhp or so from a 3.0 lump in an older/lighter car should be ample, and still sound the part too. Those engines should also be readily available, as every other 3 & 5 series seems to have one these days. I'd bet these lumps can be tuned a bit too. Room to expand is good! Im a bit of a fan of forced induction as it happens (Im really trying to stop myself thinking about the late twin turbo 3.0 engine!) (Im also trying to restrain myself from tuning the replacement lump and making it too silly).

Plus im not sure what gearboxes I can use (I know even less about these, than I do BMW engines). Maybe I wont even need a new one? (Not fussed about 5 or 6 speeds for now) Im still doing my homework on it all though.
Then i've got the electrics and ecu to think about. But at least im quite handy with wiring diagrams and a soldering iron!

Further input welcomed

P,

Edited by PJR on Saturday 19th May 22:23

[gad-westy]

m3evo2 said:

Racing Dynamics did a V12 E36 Compact conversion but the weight of the engine killed the handling.

ETA - www.geocities.com/~bmwfanatic/rdk552.html

Edited by m3evo2 on Saturday 19th May 20:54

And the £100,000+ price killed the sales!

[apache]

Alpina do a V8 version of the E36 called a B9, it's a 4.7ltr and I want one so bad it hurts, so yes, a V8 will go into an E36

Edited by apache on Monday 21st May 12:38

[PJR]

apache said:

Alpina do a V8 version of the E36 called a B9, it's a 4.7ltr and I want one so bad it hurts, so yes, a V8 will go into an E36

Edited by apache on Monday 21st May 12:38

Now THAT looks good

I figured it would go in. I just need to know what kind of parts are involved, like gearbox/bellhousing etc etc.. And there lay the problem! Its not a well documented conversion at all from what I can tell. Where as there seems to be plenty of information about putting this engine and others into E30's. There are even some kits around to help people do it. But from what I have seen, there is sod all like that around for the E36.
A standard M62 4.4 liter V8 with 286(?)bhp or so would be lovely in an E36 compact.
6 cylinders is still the more obvious option. But if a V8 will go in without too much of a fight, then i'd much rather go this route.

Cheers for the comments and suggestions so far.

P,


[EDIT] Strangely enough, I found some interesting (if slightly dated) information about it right here on PH www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=72&t=150352&i=0

Edited by PJR on Monday 21st May 15:00

[m3evo2]

gad-westy said:

m3evo2 said:

Racing Dynamics did a V12 E36 Compact conversion but the weight of the engine killed the handling.

ETA - www.geocities.com/~bmwfanatic/rdk552.html

Edited by m3evo2 on Saturday 19th May 20:54

And the £100,000+ price killed the sales!

I didn't realise it cost that much, who were they trying to kid.

[r5gttgaz]

Use a tuned S14 lump.

[m3evo2]

r5gttgaz said:

Use a tuned S14 lump.

Why didn't I think of that.

[PJR]

r5gttgaz said:

Use a tuned S14 lump.

4 pots don't really do it for me. I'd like 6. And preferably around 3 liters or more. I realise sticking a big engine in a small car wont do the handling any favours. But neither will it be so bad, and I think any sacrifice will still pay off.

The more I look into this, the more I can see that a V8 is going to be a no go, unless I went LHD (no thanks) Otherwise more buggering about than im prepared to put in will be required. And even using a late 3.0 (M54?) 6 pot lump from an E46 would be a nightmare due to differing (read, conflicting) electronic setups used over the years and model generations. Yet mechanically it seems it would fit no problem.
I get the impression life is a bit easier when transplanting into E30's due to them being more popular with enthusiasts, so conversions have been better documented now.

Anyway, due to me wanting to keep things reasonably plug & play, not to mention as oem as possible, that really only leaves other engines from the E36 range as viable options. So 2.8 I6 or the I6 3.0 and 3.2 'M' engines. And even then I would have to try and match the years of car and donor engine as close as possible. I don't think the 2.8 would be quite enough (although it is possible to tweak it some) and the 'M' engines will be a tad peaky, not to mention more expensive to source. Hmm..

I did however stumble across this chaps site today which has made for very interesting reading www.328compact.co.uk

Cheers, P

[Top pup]

PJR said:

I did however stumble across this chaps site today which has made for very interesting reading www.328compact.co.uk

That makes a 2.8 look a very straight forward swop, what about a 2.8 with the inlet manifold and a few tweeks or a supercharger?

[apache]

Why not buy a 328i and chop the boot off?

[Chris71]

....or just buy a 328i.



Didn't the E36 era compacts have the E30 rear suspension? Must admit, it was good fun in my 320, but I'm told the later suspension is better.



Do like the idea of a compact (RWD sports saloon small enough for London parking) but think it'd have to have a few more cylinders.

[Shropshiremike]

Chris71 said:

....or just buy a 328i.

Didn't the E36 era compacts have the E30 rear suspension? Must admit, it was good fun in my 320, but I'm told the later suspension is better.

Do like the idea of a compact (RWD sports saloon small enough for London parking) but think it'd have to have a few more cylinders.

Yeah, the Compact based on the E36 had the E30 type rear end.
I still think a 328 would be your best bet like Rich's on his site. He's up to 330 power (230bhp) anyway. If it's mostly for London parking will you get to use the poke if it's supercharged?

[PJR]

Yes, the later rear end on a "proper" E36 is better as the E36 compact does indeed have the old E30 setup back there. But thats not so bad and can be made better with a few simple modifications. So im really not too concerned about that. It wont be a track slag anyway, just a fun/quick road car.

As for just buying a 328.. No thanks.. As i said in my initial post, the E36 series really didn't do it for me as a whole. I liked all the E30's and most of the E46's. But its the old E36 compact that I have taken a liking to as an exception here. It just needs a decent engine in it! I also don't like keeping cars standard. I always have to do "something" to them to make them unique somehow (In the best possible tastes, of course..)

Anyway, it looks like the 328 lump into a compact is the way to go. Its not quite as ballsy as I was hoping for initially, so would likely receive some tweaks. Probably similar to Rich's (ala www.328compact.co.uk ). Then it should be fun, fast and durable enough, without costing a fortune to build and run.

Just need to get shot of one of the Mini's and clear some garage space now

P,

[Chris71]

Shropshiremike said:

Chris71 said:

....or just buy a 328i.

Didn't the E36 era compacts have the E30 rear suspension? Must admit, it was good fun in my 320, but I'm told the later suspension is better.

Do like the idea of a compact (RWD sports saloon small enough for London parking) but think it'd have to have a few more cylinders.

Yeah, the Compact based on the E36 had the E30 type rear end.
I still think a 328 would be your best bet like Rich's on his site. He's up to 330 power (230bhp) anyway. If it's mostly for London parking will you get to use the poke if it's supercharged?

Well, the London thing is because my girlfriend lives on the outskirts and there is a vague possibility of me joining her there in the not too distant future. Even if I did, I'd still be commuting out to rural-ish Essex (kind of the wrong way round I know....) and trying to get out of London as often as possible! The roads wouldn't stop me owning a quick car, but the insurance premium increase might do.

Not sure I'd ever do the conversion - if I did get a compact, I'd just get the later one with the 6 cylinder (and I think a revamped rear end by that point?) Thing is, they are a little expensive. The 'full size' 328 coupe sport is a very real possibility for next car though.