E36 325 vs 323
Discussion
Hi
Does anyone know the performance figures for these cars, looking on google i keep gwtting conflicting info.
Am i right in saying the E36 (Approx 1992) 325 has 192 bhp and the 323 (1997) has 172 bhp.
What sort of 0-60 figures do these achieve?
Edited to add, how does a e36 328 compare to these, this is the one i'm looking for but they seem to command a lot higher asking price that the 323 and 325.
Does anyone know the performance figures for these cars, looking on google i keep gwtting conflicting info.
Am i right in saying the E36 (Approx 1992) 325 has 192 bhp and the 323 (1997) has 172 bhp.
What sort of 0-60 figures do these achieve?
Edited to add, how does a e36 328 compare to these, this is the one i'm looking for but they seem to command a lot higher asking price that the 323 and 325.
Edited by ChrisRS on Saturday 12th May 11:47
I've driven all three and own a E36 325 and E46 323. I didn't find much difference between the 325 and 328, but obviously there should be more nice examples of the 328 around as it's the newer car.
The 323 does feel a bit slower compared to the 325/8, as you'd expect, but I wouldn't discount it. My 323 is quick enough in most situations (and it weighs a bit more than the E36).
Don't be tempted by a four cylinder version. I've driven them too, and the six cylinder versions are much better.
The 323 does feel a bit slower compared to the 325/8, as you'd expect, but I wouldn't discount it. My 323 is quick enough in most situations (and it weighs a bit more than the E36).
Don't be tempted by a four cylinder version. I've driven them too, and the six cylinder versions are much better.
jamesson said:
I've driven all three and own a E36 325 and E46 323. I didn't find much difference between the 325 and 328, but obviously there should be more nice examples of the 328 around as it's the newer car.
The 323 does feel a bit slower compared to the 325/8, as you'd expect, but I wouldn't discount it. My 323 is quick enough in most situations (and it weighs a bit more than the E36).
Don't be tempted by a four cylinder version. I've driven them too, and the six cylinder versions are much better.
The 323 does feel a bit slower compared to the 325/8, as you'd expect, but I wouldn't discount it. My 323 is quick enough in most situations (and it weighs a bit more than the E36).
Don't be tempted by a four cylinder version. I've driven them too, and the six cylinder versions are much better.
I've just bought a '97 e36 323 coupe, pick it up tommorow so i'll see then.
ChrisRS said:
Hi
Does anyone know the performance figures for these cars, looking on google i keep gwtting conflicting info.
Am i right in saying the E36 (Approx 1992) 325 has 192 bhp and the 323 (1997) has 172 bhp.
What sort of 0-60 figures do these achieve?
Edited to add, how does a e36 328 compare to these, this is the one i'm looking for but they seem to command a lot higher asking price that the 323 and 325.
Does anyone know the performance figures for these cars, looking on google i keep gwtting conflicting info.
Am i right in saying the E36 (Approx 1992) 325 has 192 bhp and the 323 (1997) has 172 bhp.
What sort of 0-60 figures do these achieve?
Edited to add, how does a e36 328 compare to these, this is the one i'm looking for but they seem to command a lot higher asking price that the 323 and 325.
Edited by ChrisRS on Saturday 12th May 11:47
You'll probably find that your 323 is nearly as fast as an earlier 325 most of the time. The 325 likes to rev - you'll have to really do that if you want to open any sort of appreciable gap over a 323 though. The E46 shape 323i and 328i were pretty close on performance testing as well if you look at the Autocar tests - IIRC they turned in the same ss 1/4 time although the 328i ran on to 5mph more.
Remember both the E36 323 and 328 were tuned for torque/compliance with German tax law and it's not too hard to bump up a 323i to 325 power levels if you wish at a later date. Similarly, you can get an extra 20bhp on the 328.
Autocar tested 3 manual E36 328 variants ( Touring/saloon/convertible) and the tests were respectively
0-60 6.1/6.4/6.6
0-100 17.1/17.4/17.9
Max 139/143/139
Looking at the differential to the E46 times I'd reckon a good E36 323 would be about 18.5/19 secs to 100 and about 140 max
Shropshiremike said:
ChrisRS said:
Hi
Does anyone know the performance figures for these cars, looking on google i keep gwtting conflicting info.
Am i right in saying the E36 (Approx 1992) 325 has 192 bhp and the 323 (1997) has 172 bhp.
What sort of 0-60 figures do these achieve?
Edited to add, how does a e36 328 compare to these, this is the one i'm looking for but they seem to command a lot higher asking price that the 323 and 325.
Does anyone know the performance figures for these cars, looking on google i keep gwtting conflicting info.
Am i right in saying the E36 (Approx 1992) 325 has 192 bhp and the 323 (1997) has 172 bhp.
What sort of 0-60 figures do these achieve?
Edited to add, how does a e36 328 compare to these, this is the one i'm looking for but they seem to command a lot higher asking price that the 323 and 325.
Edited by ChrisRS on Saturday 12th May 11:47
You'll probably find that your 323 is nearly as fast as an earlier 325 most of the time. The 325 likes to rev - you'll have to really do that if you want to open any sort of appreciable gap over a 323 though. The E46 shape 323i and 328i were pretty close on performance testing as well if you look at the Autocar tests - IIRC they turned in the same ss 1/4 time although the 328i ran on to 5mph more.
Remember both the E36 323 and 328 were tuned for torque/compliance with German tax law and it's not too hard to bump up a 323i to 325 power levels if you wish at a later date. Similarly, you can get an extra 20bhp on the 328.
Autocar tested 3 manual E36 328 variants ( Touring/saloon/convertible) and the tests were respectively
0-60 6.1/6.4/6.6
0-100 17.1/17.4/17.9
Max 139/143/139
Looking at the differential to the E46 times I'd reckon a good E36 323 would be about 18.5/19 secs to 100 and about 140 max
Those figures don't seem right. How can a e46 325 which has the same hp and slightly less torque take over a second longer to 60 and 2 seconds longer to 100 than a e36 328?
daveco said:
Shropshiremike said:
ChrisRS said:
Hi
Does anyone know the performance figures for these cars, looking on google i keep gwtting conflicting info.
Am i right in saying the E36 (Approx 1992) 325 has 192 bhp and the 323 (1997) has 172 bhp.
What sort of 0-60 figures do these achieve?
Edited to add, how does a e36 328 compare to these, this is the one i'm looking for but they seem to command a lot higher asking price that the 323 and 325.
Does anyone know the performance figures for these cars, looking on google i keep gwtting conflicting info.
Am i right in saying the E36 (Approx 1992) 325 has 192 bhp and the 323 (1997) has 172 bhp.
What sort of 0-60 figures do these achieve?
Edited to add, how does a e36 328 compare to these, this is the one i'm looking for but they seem to command a lot higher asking price that the 323 and 325.
Edited by ChrisRS on Saturday 12th May 11:47
You'll probably find that your 323 is nearly as fast as an earlier 325 most of the time. The 325 likes to rev - you'll have to really do that if you want to open any sort of appreciable gap over a 323 though. The E46 shape 323i and 328i were pretty close on performance testing as well if you look at the Autocar tests - IIRC they turned in the same ss 1/4 time although the 328i ran on to 5mph more.
Remember both the E36 323 and 328 were tuned for torque/compliance with German tax law and it's not too hard to bump up a 323i to 325 power levels if you wish at a later date. Similarly, you can get an extra 20bhp on the 328.
Autocar tested 3 manual E36 328 variants ( Touring/saloon/convertible) and the tests were respectively
0-60 6.1/6.4/6.6
0-100 17.1/17.4/17.9
Max 139/143/139
Looking at the differential to the E46 times I'd reckon a good E36 323 would be about 18.5/19 secs to 100 and about 140 max
Those figures don't seem right. How can a e46 325 which has the same hp and slightly less torque take over a second longer to 60 and 2 seconds longer to 100 than a e36 328?
I'm not referring to the E46 325 - it's the E36 one.
However, if I had been referring to the E46 325, remember it is a heavier car than an E36
Shropshiremike said:
daveco said:
Shropshiremike said:
ChrisRS said:
Hi
Does anyone know the performance figures for these cars, looking on google i keep gwtting conflicting info.
Am i right in saying the E36 (Approx 1992) 325 has 192 bhp and the 323 (1997) has 172 bhp.
What sort of 0-60 figures do these achieve?
Edited to add, how does a e36 328 compare to these, this is the one i'm looking for but they seem to command a lot higher asking price that the 323 and 325.
Does anyone know the performance figures for these cars, looking on google i keep gwtting conflicting info.
Am i right in saying the E36 (Approx 1992) 325 has 192 bhp and the 323 (1997) has 172 bhp.
What sort of 0-60 figures do these achieve?
Edited to add, how does a e36 328 compare to these, this is the one i'm looking for but they seem to command a lot higher asking price that the 323 and 325.
Edited by ChrisRS on Saturday 12th May 11:47
You'll probably find that your 323 is nearly as fast as an earlier 325 most of the time. The 325 likes to rev - you'll have to really do that if you want to open any sort of appreciable gap over a 323 though. The E46 shape 323i and 328i were pretty close on performance testing as well if you look at the Autocar tests - IIRC they turned in the same ss 1/4 time although the 328i ran on to 5mph more.
Remember both the E36 323 and 328 were tuned for torque/compliance with German tax law and it's not too hard to bump up a 323i to 325 power levels if you wish at a later date. Similarly, you can get an extra 20bhp on the 328.
Autocar tested 3 manual E36 328 variants ( Touring/saloon/convertible) and the tests were respectively
0-60 6.1/6.4/6.6
0-100 17.1/17.4/17.9
Max 139/143/139
Looking at the differential to the E46 times I'd reckon a good E36 323 would be about 18.5/19 secs to 100 and about 140 max
Those figures don't seem right. How can a e46 325 which has the same hp and slightly less torque take over a second longer to 60 and 2 seconds longer to 100 than a e36 328?
I'm not referring to the E46 325 - it's the E36 one.
However, if I had been referring to the E46 325, remember it is a heavier car than an E36
It's heavier by about 30kg as far as I know. The figures you have above make the 328 as quick as the e46 330. Would you have the road test handy as there seems to be a huge deviation between performance stats for the e36 325/328 and the e46 325/328 that I've come across. I have as low as 6.1-5 seconds for the e46 328 and the highest is 7.6 seconds from autocar for the same car. They seem to be hard cars to get consistent figures out of!
daveco said:
It's heavier by about 30kg as far as I know. The figures you have above make the 328 as quick as the e46 330. Would you have the road test handy as there seems to be a huge deviation between performance stats for the e36 325/328 and the e46 325/328 that I've come across. I have as low as 6.1-5 seconds for the e46 328 and the highest is 7.6 seconds from autocar for the same car. They seem to be hard cars to get consistent figures out of!
They're all from Autocar Dave. I think they got 6.5 and 16.7 ( Max 149 - weight affects acceleration more than top speed ) for a 330i when they tested it against the Merc C320. They quoted the E46 330i as weighing 1510kg ( a fair bit more than the 1350-ish kilos for an E36 328i ) but like all BMs as I'm sure you know it depends on the spec of the individual car. Best way to be sure is down to your local weighbridge - I'm prety lucky having one about a mile away so know the kerb weights of my cars out of morbid interest
I've got the road tests for the E46 323, 328 and 328 Touring at home so I can have a look if you want?
I've got an E36 328i now ( used to own a 330i some time back ) and wrung out through the gears I don't reckon there'd be a lot in it until over 80/90.
It's all relative though as individual cars can vary a fair bit. One of the 328s I test drove whilst looking for cars felt pretty sluggish but it only needs a cam sensor to be down/individual engine variations to account for this.
By the same token, the German reg 330i I encountered in my Sierra whilst driving down to the S. of France was unusually sprightly! Not sure ours ever seemed that fast!
Shropshiremike said:
daveco said:
It's heavier by about 30kg as far as I know. The figures you have above make the 328 as quick as the e46 330. Would you have the road test handy as there seems to be a huge deviation between performance stats for the e36 325/328 and the e46 325/328 that I've come across. I have as low as 6.1-5 seconds for the e46 328 and the highest is 7.6 seconds from autocar for the same car. They seem to be hard cars to get consistent figures out of!
They're all from Autocar Dave. I think they got 6.5 and 16.7 ( Max 149 - weight affects acceleration more than top speed ) for a 330i when they tested it against the Merc C320. They quoted the E46 330i as weighing 1510kg ( a fair bit more than the 1350-ish kilos for an E36 328i ) but like all BMs as I'm sure you know it depends on the spec of the individual car. Best way to be sure is down to your local weighbridge - I'm prety lucky having one about a mile away so know the kerb weights of my cars out of morbid interest
I've got the road tests for the E46 323, 328 and 328 Touring at home so I can have a look if you want?
I've got an E36 328i now ( used to own a 330i some time back ) and wrung out through the gears I don't reckon there'd be a lot in it until over 80/90.
It's all relative though as individual cars can vary a fair bit. One of the 328s I test drove whilst looking for cars felt pretty sluggish but it only needs a cam sensor to be down/individual engine variations to account for this.
By the same token, the German reg 330i I encountered in my Sierra whilst driving down to the S. of France was unusually sprightly! Not sure ours ever seemed that fast!
If you could check the road tests for me Mike that'd be great. I know the e46 325 is the middle ground between the 323 and 328 derivatives so it could give me a fair idea what my own car is capable of. So far the performance figures I have pretty much all say 7.2 seconds to 60 and over 19 seconds to 100. And then I checked out the e39 528 saloon road test on autocar.co.uk and the figures for that seem pretty quick! Check them out and see what I mean-
-www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsData/BMW-5-Series-528i-SE/200076/
daveco said:
If you could check the road tests for me Mike that'd be great. I know the e46 325 is the middle ground between the 323 and 328 derivatives so it could give me a fair idea what my own car is capable of. So far the performance figures I have pretty much all say 7.2 seconds to 60 and over 19 seconds to 100. And then I checked out the e39 528 saloon road test on autocar.co.uk and the figures for that seem pretty quick! Check them out and see what I mean-
-www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsData/BMW-5-Series-528i-SE/200076/
-www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsData/BMW-5-Series-528i-SE/200076/
Will do Dave, I've seen the 528i test before ( mainly because I buy Autocar every week
). Didn't they test an E46 325 estate or was it an E90? I'll have a look anyway but it sounds like your supposition is pretty close anyway. Not worth worrying too much about the odd second here and there really - they're just a guide. I think your car, along with the 330, replaced the 323/328 models so both the new models tended to be a little faster than their respective forerunners
Penguin said:
The 328 has the same bhp as the 325 due to the intake being so restirictive for german tax reasons. Can be freed up to 200+ for abot 500 quid.
Only driven the 328 sport but it very good at everything if a bit breathless in the high revs but the torque makes up for that
Only driven the 328 sport but it very good at everything if a bit breathless in the high revs but the torque makes up for that
Ah - I thought it was the 323 and 325 that were the same.
Does that mean theres any point in buying a 328 then? (performance wise....)
chris71 said:
Penguin said:
The 328 has the same bhp as the 325 due to the intake being so restirictive for german tax reasons. Can be freed up to 200+ for abot 500 quid.
Only driven the 328 sport but it very good at everything if a bit breathless in the high revs but the torque makes up for that
Only driven the 328 sport but it very good at everything if a bit breathless in the high revs but the torque makes up for that
Ah - I thought it was the 323 and 325 that were the same.
Does that mean theres any point in buying a 328 then? (performance wise....)
Oh there is
If you do the throttle body and manifold mod (£400) you get the gee gees back. I believe mine has had it all done, including a remap, and it flies.
Torque is also a very important thing, especially in something of the 3 series weight; makes it very very nice to drive.
chris71 said:
Penguin said:
The 328 has the same bhp as the 325 due to the intake being so restirictive for german tax reasons. Can be freed up to 200+ for abot 500 quid.
Only driven the 328 sport but it very good at everything if a bit breathless in the high revs but the torque makes up for that
Only driven the 328 sport but it very good at everything if a bit breathless in the high revs but the torque makes up for that
Ah - I thought it was the 323 and 325 that were the same.
Does that mean theres any point in buying a 328 then? (performance wise....)
chris71 said:
Ah - I thought it was the 323 and 325 that were the same.
Does that mean theres any point in buying a 328 then? (performance wise....)
Does that mean theres any point in buying a 328 then? (performance wise....)
323 and 325 are both roughly 2.5 capacity wise. The 323 is restricted intake wise. You can de-restrict a 323 same as a 328.
If you de-restrict a 328 you can get up to 210-220bhp so it is defintely worthwhile!
daveco said:
Got another question on this topic, had my e46 325 dyno'd stock and it was putting out 200hp and 185lb ft of torque, on 91 octane (if that's of any importance), are all 323/5/8's pretty much the same with regards to stating they have less power than they actually have?
Looking at performance test figures compared with rivals from when BMW were still making the E46, one might be led to beleive that Munich horses pull slightly harder than some.
daveco said:
If you could check the road tests for me Mike that'd be great. I know the e46 325 is the middle ground between the 323 and 328 derivatives so it could give me a fair idea what my own car is capable of. So far the performance figures I have pretty much all say 7.2 seconds to 60 and over 19 seconds to 100.
Ok Dave, Autocar put the timing gear on
a. the E46 323i - 170bhp - 1448kg
0-60 7.6
0-100 19.8
30-70 7.1
ss 1/4 15.8@91
Max 141
b. the E46 323i convertible - 170bhp - 1669kg
0-60 8.2
0-100 22.2
30-70 7.9
ss 1/4 16.3@87
Max 137
c. the E46 328i saloon - 193bhp - 1440kg
0-60 7.3
0-100 18.0
30-70 6.3
ss 1/4 15.7@94
Max 148
d. the E46 328i coupe - 193bhp - 1471kg
0-60 7.4
0-100 18.5
30-70 6.4
ss 1/4 15.8@94
Max 146
e. the E46 328i touring - 193bhp - 1542kg
0-60 7.5
0-100 18.8
30-70 6.4
ss 1/4 15.8@93
Max 145
As you can see, the E46 6s weigh a fair bit more than the E36 ones
The 325i they tested was an E90 variant with the 215bhp engine
1545kg
0-60 7.3
0-100 20.1
max 143
HTH
ShropshireMike said:
daveco said:
If you could check the road tests for me Mike that'd be great. I know the e46 325 is the middle ground between the 323 and 328 derivatives so it could give me a fair idea what my own car is capable of. So far the performance figures I have pretty much all say 7.2 seconds to 60 and over 19 seconds to 100.
Ok Dave, Autocar put the timing gear on
a. the E46 323i - 170bhp - 1448kg
0-60 7.6
0-100 19.8
30-70 7.1
ss 1/4 15.8@91
Max 141
b. the E46 323i convertible - 170bhp - 1669kg
0-60 8.2
0-100 22.2
30-70 7.9
ss 1/4 16.3@87
Max 137
c. the E46 328i saloon - 193bhp - 1440kg
0-60 7.3
0-100 18.0
30-70 6.3
ss 1/4 15.7@94
Max 148
d. the E46 328i coupe - 193bhp - 1471kg
0-60 7.4
0-100 18.5
30-70 6.4
ss 1/4 15.8@94
Max 146
e. the E46 328i touring - 193bhp - 1542kg
0-60 7.5
0-100 18.8
30-70 6.4
ss 1/4 15.8@93
Max 145
As you can see, the E46 6s weigh a fair bit more than the E36 ones
The 325i they tested was an E90 variant with the 215bhp engine
1545kg
0-60 7.3
0-100 20.1
max 143
HTH
Thanks for those Mike, appreciated. Though looking at the e39 528 on autocar, it's figures are
1530kg
0-60 6.8
0-100 18
30-70 6.5
ss 1/4 15.3
Given that it's roughly the same weight as the e46 328 touring, how come it's nearly a second quicker on the 100mph and 1/4 mile times compared to it? I'm guessing other conditions such as driver skill and road conditions play a part in it, but look at the figures here- www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=44068/pageId=4701 for the 328ci, 6.5 sec to 60 yet it's saloon counterpart above takes nearly a second longer to 60 and the 1/4 mile. I know these figures amount to f**k all importance in real world terms, just trying to figure out why there's quite a large difference between autocars/edmunds/BMW's quoted performance figures.
daveco said:
Given that it's roughly the same weight as the e46 328 touring, how come it's nearly a second quicker on the 100mph and 1/4 mile times compared to it? I'm guessing other conditions such as driver skill and road conditions play a part in it, but look at the figures here- www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=44068/pageId=4701 for the 328ci, 6.5 sec to 60 yet it's saloon counterpart above takes nearly a second longer to 60 and the 1/4 mile. I know these figures amount to f**k all importance in real world terms, just trying to figure out why there's quite a large difference between autocars/edmunds/BMW's quoted performance figures.
I'd guess mostly because individual cars/testers/test conditions vary quite a bit.
Give the same car to three different people at Santa Pod and I GUARANTEE you will get three different results....and that's on the same day at the same track
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