Scammer or Genuine Pillock? Votes please! (long..sorry)
Discussion
Would just like to run a straw poll on the following question...which may also prove to act as a warning/heads-up for fellow PH'ers:
I'm selling a car (top left in this link: www.bmwclassics.co.uk/about/index.html ).
A chap with a north east accent phones me from Dublin during last week and says he's interested in the car but is away working on a project in Dublin at the moment but could come and see it in the next couple of weeks. Then on Friday phones to say he's unexpectedly back in the UK and could he see it on Sunday and if he liked it would leave a deposit to secure the car pending a return to the UK at Easter. Doesn't sound particularly like a BMW enthusiast but says he's had an M635 in the past.Fine!
Guy in his 40's dutifully turns up on Sunday with his Irish girlfriend (who has moved to the UK and lives at his place in North Yorkshire from whence they have come this morning. They turn up in her jallopy-style Toyota still bearing Irish plates which she apparently is now in the process of having to register here in the UK. The cost and palava of which might seem to outweigh the value of the car!
Anyway, car is inspected and we do a 20 mile test drive. Following this the only thing he commented on was that after some fairly brisk driving the temp gauge needle fluctated slightly on slowing down again but return quickly to normal at normal speeds and idling. The car doesn't overheat.
A deal was agreed for the full asking price on condition that I put a brand new radiator in...the one in the car being 21 years old is probably past its best efficency. Fine!
I ordered the new radiator within 5 minutes of them leaving and also ordered a new and uprated water pump which I was throwing-in for good measure just in case at no extra cost even though this was not part of the deal. The car has now been booked in to have these fitted (I don't have the time at the moment to do it myself). This will add a further circa £300-plus to the already large investment that I have put into the car but again...Fine!
Initially, he tries to offer me a £100 cash deposit which I say simply isn't enough. He had actually brought £200 with him...clearly without consulting me assuming that I wouldn't ask for more. Anyway, even though I would have preferred a more secure deposit given that I was then going to have to be effectively 'storing' the car for him for several weeks, I agreed to take the £200.
Additionally, I agreed to collect him from Liverpool Airport when he next came to collect the car... A distance of approximately 80 miles from here... and bring him back here to complete the transaction...His intention then being to drive it to his home in North Yorkshire. With his intended return date being the 29th March there was still almost a full 3 weeks for arrangements to be made.
As we had not discussed the manner in which he wished to pay the balance on the car I emailed him to enquire on Tuesday. In the e-mail I made it clear that the car would be handed over with either "cash-on-the day" or when other cleared funds had been received.
On Wednesday he emailed me to say he had a banker's draft made out to me which was now sitting in a Yorkshire bank, that it had cost him £13 to arrange this and that "...it was a pity I hadn't told him before how I wished the balance to be paid." Additionally, he wanted me to meet him at Liverpool with the above car!
I replied to re-iterate that the car would NOT be handed over without CLEARED funds and that I would not accept a banker's draft on the day as representative of cleared funds and even forwarded the recent thread on PH relating to this and potential scams. Furthermore, I made it clear that whilst I was still willing to pick him up at Liverpool Airport I would be doing so in one of my daily driver cars and not risking the E28 above at the eleventh hour having 'sold' it! This was quite apart from the logistic impossibility as my wife would not be able to follow to bring me home again due children's school etc. At this point I already gave him the option to renege on the agreement and that I would simply return his deposit.
He then countered this by stating that he was still adamant that he still wanted the car and the suggestion that I should still meet him with the E28 and that he would then drive me back here thus giving him "...further confidence for the trip home..." and that he was sure we could still come to an "...amicable arrangement".
For those who were asleep during geography lessons at school a quick look at a map will show you that Shropshire and North Yorkshire are essentailly in opposite directions from Liverpool!
I simply re-affirmed that I would NOT accept a banker's draft on the day and that I would not have the car driven on what would be effectively a further 160 mile round trip as some form of notional 'test drive'!
Late lastnight, I put a cheque in the post to the address given in North Yorkshire for £200 as return of deposit and the plug has now been pulled on this deal! I know one shouldn't be emotional about cars but in the end I just didn't care what he was...I just knew I didn't want this car to go to this person.
So, the poll I'd like to take is this:
Q. Do fellow PH'ers think this guy is:
a) An 'almost convincing' scammer?
b) An 'entirely convincing' pillock?
Please simply cast a) or b) and I'll count up the votes.
Many thanks!
I'm selling a car (top left in this link: www.bmwclassics.co.uk/about/index.html ).
A chap with a north east accent phones me from Dublin during last week and says he's interested in the car but is away working on a project in Dublin at the moment but could come and see it in the next couple of weeks. Then on Friday phones to say he's unexpectedly back in the UK and could he see it on Sunday and if he liked it would leave a deposit to secure the car pending a return to the UK at Easter. Doesn't sound particularly like a BMW enthusiast but says he's had an M635 in the past.Fine!
Guy in his 40's dutifully turns up on Sunday with his Irish girlfriend (who has moved to the UK and lives at his place in North Yorkshire from whence they have come this morning. They turn up in her jallopy-style Toyota still bearing Irish plates which she apparently is now in the process of having to register here in the UK. The cost and palava of which might seem to outweigh the value of the car!
Anyway, car is inspected and we do a 20 mile test drive. Following this the only thing he commented on was that after some fairly brisk driving the temp gauge needle fluctated slightly on slowing down again but return quickly to normal at normal speeds and idling. The car doesn't overheat.
A deal was agreed for the full asking price on condition that I put a brand new radiator in...the one in the car being 21 years old is probably past its best efficency. Fine!
I ordered the new radiator within 5 minutes of them leaving and also ordered a new and uprated water pump which I was throwing-in for good measure just in case at no extra cost even though this was not part of the deal. The car has now been booked in to have these fitted (I don't have the time at the moment to do it myself). This will add a further circa £300-plus to the already large investment that I have put into the car but again...Fine!
Initially, he tries to offer me a £100 cash deposit which I say simply isn't enough. He had actually brought £200 with him...clearly without consulting me assuming that I wouldn't ask for more. Anyway, even though I would have preferred a more secure deposit given that I was then going to have to be effectively 'storing' the car for him for several weeks, I agreed to take the £200.
Additionally, I agreed to collect him from Liverpool Airport when he next came to collect the car... A distance of approximately 80 miles from here... and bring him back here to complete the transaction...His intention then being to drive it to his home in North Yorkshire. With his intended return date being the 29th March there was still almost a full 3 weeks for arrangements to be made.
As we had not discussed the manner in which he wished to pay the balance on the car I emailed him to enquire on Tuesday. In the e-mail I made it clear that the car would be handed over with either "cash-on-the day" or when other cleared funds had been received.
On Wednesday he emailed me to say he had a banker's draft made out to me which was now sitting in a Yorkshire bank, that it had cost him £13 to arrange this and that "...it was a pity I hadn't told him before how I wished the balance to be paid." Additionally, he wanted me to meet him at Liverpool with the above car!
I replied to re-iterate that the car would NOT be handed over without CLEARED funds and that I would not accept a banker's draft on the day as representative of cleared funds and even forwarded the recent thread on PH relating to this and potential scams. Furthermore, I made it clear that whilst I was still willing to pick him up at Liverpool Airport I would be doing so in one of my daily driver cars and not risking the E28 above at the eleventh hour having 'sold' it! This was quite apart from the logistic impossibility as my wife would not be able to follow to bring me home again due children's school etc. At this point I already gave him the option to renege on the agreement and that I would simply return his deposit.
He then countered this by stating that he was still adamant that he still wanted the car and the suggestion that I should still meet him with the E28 and that he would then drive me back here thus giving him "...further confidence for the trip home..." and that he was sure we could still come to an "...amicable arrangement".
For those who were asleep during geography lessons at school a quick look at a map will show you that Shropshire and North Yorkshire are essentailly in opposite directions from Liverpool!
I simply re-affirmed that I would NOT accept a banker's draft on the day and that I would not have the car driven on what would be effectively a further 160 mile round trip as some form of notional 'test drive'!
Late lastnight, I put a cheque in the post to the address given in North Yorkshire for £200 as return of deposit and the plug has now been pulled on this deal! I know one shouldn't be emotional about cars but in the end I just didn't care what he was...I just knew I didn't want this car to go to this person.
So, the poll I'd like to take is this:
Q. Do fellow PH'ers think this guy is:
a) An 'almost convincing' scammer?
b) An 'entirely convincing' pillock?
Please simply cast a) or b) and I'll count up the votes.
Many thanks!
Edited by derin100 on Saturday 17th March 00:31
Edited by derin100 on Saturday 17th March 13:59
derin100 said:
eliot said:
Also request that the cash is in the new £20 notes.
Eliot,
Why's it best to get new £20 notes? Is there some other scam going on involving cash?
Thanks
Think I'll Go B Derin
Guess its a case of them being a brand new design so the forgers haven't had chance to copy them.... but having said that I haven't seen one yet to know what one looks like!
mustard said:
Guess its a case of them being a brand new design so the forgers haven't had chance to copy them
Problem with a big pile of cash, is that i wouldn't be able to spot a dud unless the queen was winking at me! New ones wont be forged for a while.
Edited by eliot on Saturday 17th March 18:23
nos4a2 said:
B) but I would have kept the £200 to offset the cost of the radiator and water pump...
Nah nos4a2, I'm just relieved and glad to be rid of him really.
Right from the outset I didn't really want the car to go to him. I know one shouldn't be 'emotional' but I'm only ever really happy if I have the feeling one of my cars is going to someone who is really enthusiastic about having the car and just a geniunely sensible person...like Hemibum was with the 840!
How's it going? Had a chance to drive it at all lately? Edited by derin100 on Saturday 17th March 19:37
frazer guest said:
eliot said:
mustard said:
Guess its a case of them being a brand new design so the forgers haven't had chance to copy them
Problem with a big pile of cash, is that i wouldn't be able to spot a dud unless the queen was winking at me! New ones wont be forged for a while.
Edited by eliot on Saturday 17th March 18:23
a forged note will stand out like a sore thumb amongst real cash.
a real note should show the following signs;
1; the qaulity of paper should be very good. although when a note has been put through the washing machine, or is old, the paper can start to "thin" a bit.
2; as the note is held face up, (with the queen on the right, looking / facing right), there is a egg shapped dome under where it says "BANK OF ENGLAND. TWENTY POUNDS". in this dome will be another portrait of the queen, drawn faintly. the two queens should be looking at each other.
fake notes NEVER have this.
3; serial numbers and the signiture of the head cashier should not be smudged or overly faint.
MOST fakes have faint small print.
4; the hologram on the left should be, well, like a hologram, not a cheap copy.
SOME fakes copy this well.
5; the most important one of all. in all bank of england notes, £5, £10, £20 & £50, there is a metal strip that runs just to left of centre.
if you tear down the note just to one side of the metal strip, (1cm max), and then try and tear through the metal strip. with a real note it will be difficult to break the metal thread, not impossable, just dificult. there should be a noticable resistance. i have never seen a forged note where this metal strip really was metal. on fakes it is usually painted on.
having spent a great number of years working in and running pubs, clubs, restaurants and casinos, where many millions of pounds past through my hands each year, i have only ever seen one fake that was difficult to spot, as most of them really are crap. the only good ones that i have seen all had the same serial number and the paper felt greasey.
oh, and you will never see a fake £5, as it costs more than £5 to make them.
forged scottish money, is a lot harder to spot though.
Excellent info! Thanks!
He could be either, but whatever he is, you've done the right thing.
If you're not happy with someone, then walk away. Any amount of identification, references and stories can be faked, and it's your hard-earned cash you'd be waving goodbye to if it goes tits-up.
Any self-respecting punter would appreciate the work that you so obviously put into your cars (they look very nice by the way!), and would understand why you'd want to be careful about handing them over.
For a sale like that it should be cleared funds or cash every time, and if a punter so much as wavers on that point, you should walk away.
If you're not happy with someone, then walk away. Any amount of identification, references and stories can be faked, and it's your hard-earned cash you'd be waving goodbye to if it goes tits-up.
Any self-respecting punter would appreciate the work that you so obviously put into your cars (they look very nice by the way!), and would understand why you'd want to be careful about handing them over.
For a sale like that it should be cleared funds or cash every time, and if a punter so much as wavers on that point, you should walk away.
Dear Mr Derin,
I can tell you that for you to trust anyone you need to find one of the 20/30% of genuine people left in this country with whom to deal.
It is a sign of these very troubled times i am afraid that you have been put in that position.
If i owned that car i would not go out of my way for anyone and you have obviously already over extended yourself with this idiot.
We are living in very troubled times my man when things are never what they seem, and unfortunately, desparate men do desparate things.
This fellow is without question a scam artist and not a very good one at that.
At least he met his match in you, but the downside is the next fellow he chooses to fleece will not have the acummen of a surgeon
I can tell you that for you to trust anyone you need to find one of the 20/30% of genuine people left in this country with whom to deal.
It is a sign of these very troubled times i am afraid that you have been put in that position.
If i owned that car i would not go out of my way for anyone and you have obviously already over extended yourself with this idiot.
We are living in very troubled times my man when things are never what they seem, and unfortunately, desparate men do desparate things.
This fellow is without question a scam artist and not a very good one at that.
At least he met his match in you, but the downside is the next fellow he chooses to fleece will not have the acummen of a surgeon
Thanks Simon, Geo and Matt.
And can you believe this?!...I've just had an e-mail from him saying he's been informed my cheque has arrived safely in Yorkshire and "How's the sale going?"
It's only decency that is preventing me answering and simply directing him the direction of this thread to show him what genuine people think of him!
I should have added two other options to the multiple choice answers:
'c' As FixedWheelNut suggested! Or even the female variant!
'd' All of the above!
And can you believe this?!...I've just had an e-mail from him saying he's been informed my cheque has arrived safely in Yorkshire and "How's the sale going?"
It's only decency that is preventing me answering and simply directing him the direction of this thread to show him what genuine people think of him!
I should have added two other options to the multiple choice answers:
'c' As FixedWheelNut suggested! Or even the female variant!
'd' All of the above!
Why can't people just stick to what's agreed. I had grief selling my E30 323i and as soon as people start making strange demands or changing their story I pull the plug. Someone will genunily recognise the car for what it is and for what condition it's in and will rip your hand off for her.
derin100 said:
nos4a2 said:
B) but I would have kept the £200 to offset the cost of the radiator and water pump...
Nah nos4a2, I'm just relieved and glad to be rid of him really.
Right from the outset I didn't really want the car to go to him. I know one shouldn't be 'emotional' but I'm only ever really happy if I have the feeling one of my cars is going to someone who is really enthusiastic about having the car and just a geniunely sensible person...like Hemibum was with the 840!
How's it going? Had a chance to drive it at all lately? Edited by derin100 on Saturday 17th March 19:37
Thanks Derin, Yes, still enjoying very much. Apart, that is, from having to throw mucho folding stuff (not counterfeit) at it to maintain your damn hard standard!!
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