Auto Transmission woe
Discussion
My beloved 144k mile 528 e39 sprung a sudden leak of autotransmission fluid one day... came back to find a puddle. Drove it home with a little bit of thump on low gear down changes and a small amount of slip when pulling onto the drive, subsequently recovered to gearbox man.
His diagnosis is a leak from the autobox cooler up by the rad and the flexibles going to the gearbox. He is going to fix this and refill the box, the fluid that came out was a little black (as well as being less than required!). He is making dark mutterings of the box maybe being irreparably damaged by this experience and that it may detect slip in the box and go into limp home mode when refilled and on a test drive. We shall see, new recon box £1600??!! fitted
Interestingly he reckons most bmw/merc/audi boxes have a life of approx 120k miles and compared the cost of changing the auto to that of a manual clutch on an equivalent car (say at 80-90k miles) where he suggested the dual mass flywheel has often gone making the whole bill c.£900.
What are everyone's thoughts on this, makes high mileage vehicles a bit more risky if facing a £1600 bill, I guess the moral is keep on top of basic maintenance to spot things like atf leaks before it lunches the box internals. Anyway fingers crossed. How much for a 98R 144k 528i Se silver black leather on ebay (good history etc)newly filled autobox? I reckon £2k ish?
His diagnosis is a leak from the autobox cooler up by the rad and the flexibles going to the gearbox. He is going to fix this and refill the box, the fluid that came out was a little black (as well as being less than required!). He is making dark mutterings of the box maybe being irreparably damaged by this experience and that it may detect slip in the box and go into limp home mode when refilled and on a test drive. We shall see, new recon box £1600??!! fitted
Interestingly he reckons most bmw/merc/audi boxes have a life of approx 120k miles and compared the cost of changing the auto to that of a manual clutch on an equivalent car (say at 80-90k miles) where he suggested the dual mass flywheel has often gone making the whole bill c.£900.
What are everyone's thoughts on this, makes high mileage vehicles a bit more risky if facing a £1600 bill, I guess the moral is keep on top of basic maintenance to spot things like atf leaks before it lunches the box internals. Anyway fingers crossed. How much for a 98R 144k 528i Se silver black leather on ebay (good history etc)newly filled autobox? I reckon £2k ish?
ian_cab28 said:
My beloved 144k mile 528 e39 sprung a sudden leak of autotransmission fluid one day... came back to find a puddle. Drove it home with a little bit of thump on low gear down changes and a small amount of slip when pulling onto the drive, subsequently recovered to gearbox man.
His diagnosis is a leak from the autobox cooler up by the rad and the flexibles going to the gearbox. He is going to fix this and refill the box, the fluid that came out was a little black (as well as being less than required!). He is making dark mutterings of the box maybe being irreparably damaged by this experience and that it may detect slip in the box and go into limp home mode when refilled and on a test drive. We shall see, new recon box £1600??!! fitted
Interestingly he reckons most bmw/merc/audi boxes have a life of approx 120k miles and compared the cost of changing the auto to that of a manual clutch on an equivalent car (say at 80-90k miles) where he suggested the dual mass flywheel has often gone making the whole bill c.£900.
What are everyone's thoughts on this, makes high mileage vehicles a bit more risky if facing a £1600 bill, I guess the moral is keep on top of basic maintenance to spot things like atf leaks before it lunches the box internals. Anyway fingers crossed. How much for a 98R 144k 528i Se silver black leather on ebay (good history etc)newly filled autobox? I reckon £2k ish?
His diagnosis is a leak from the autobox cooler up by the rad and the flexibles going to the gearbox. He is going to fix this and refill the box, the fluid that came out was a little black (as well as being less than required!). He is making dark mutterings of the box maybe being irreparably damaged by this experience and that it may detect slip in the box and go into limp home mode when refilled and on a test drive. We shall see, new recon box £1600??!! fitted
Interestingly he reckons most bmw/merc/audi boxes have a life of approx 120k miles and compared the cost of changing the auto to that of a manual clutch on an equivalent car (say at 80-90k miles) where he suggested the dual mass flywheel has often gone making the whole bill c.£900.
What are everyone's thoughts on this, makes high mileage vehicles a bit more risky if facing a £1600 bill, I guess the moral is keep on top of basic maintenance to spot things like atf leaks before it lunches the box internals. Anyway fingers crossed. How much for a 98R 144k 528i Se silver black leather on ebay (good history etc)newly filled autobox? I reckon £2k ish?
I find It hard to believe that 120k is the expected life of an auto on these cars. A car that has been used for mainly un-stressed motorway miles is bound to be longer lived than a 'box' that is used to gain that mileage around town. It would depend mostly on how the car has been treated, like any mechanical device. Why a recon box when there are plenty of smashed up low mileage cars in breakers? They must be cheaper?
Thats a wild guess,I take it he's itching to sell you a box.
There is no limit to the gearbox life-Although you cant predict radiator failure etc a gearbox should last the same length of time as the chassis-and the chassis go on for ever.
We see golden oldies from time to time on the old 4 speed auto which have done 300k without trouble.Lots of 39's,46's with 150k without fault.
They are also quite robust-they can take a hammering if the oil falls out.Clonking and slipping are the obvious symptoms of low oil.More often than not when the box is replenished with oil they are fine-idealy you need to have the fault memory checked and deleted and also the adaptions reset.
The oil in these boxxes do'es turn black-normal-you need to worry when the oil is burnt,you can tell when its burnt because the smell makes you heave.
Hopefully he puts the right oil back in-there are many types of oil for BMW boxxes
There is no limit to the gearbox life-Although you cant predict radiator failure etc a gearbox should last the same length of time as the chassis-and the chassis go on for ever.
We see golden oldies from time to time on the old 4 speed auto which have done 300k without trouble.Lots of 39's,46's with 150k without fault.
They are also quite robust-they can take a hammering if the oil falls out.Clonking and slipping are the obvious symptoms of low oil.More often than not when the box is replenished with oil they are fine-idealy you need to have the fault memory checked and deleted and also the adaptions reset.
The oil in these boxxes do'es turn black-normal-you need to worry when the oil is burnt,you can tell when its burnt because the smell makes you heave.
Hopefully he puts the right oil back in-there are many types of oil for BMW boxxes
blackspider said:
They are also quite robust-they can take a hammering if the oil falls out.Clonking and slipping are the obvious symptoms of low oil.More often than not when the box is replenished with oil they are fine-idealy you need to have the fault memory checked and deleted and also the adaptions reset.
This may be a silly question, but how do you check the level in a "sealed for life box"? I haven't seen a gearbox dip-stick on mine. Should the oil be changed? Mine has done 139,000.
Checking the ATF level is done from under the car with it connected to the diagnostics to read atf temperature.
With the vehicle level engine running and gearbox in park, the ATF is topped up via the filler plug when the ATF temperature is between 30 and 50 degrees centigrade, until oil is coming out of the filler plug.
Make sure you get the correct lifetime ATF there are several different oils dependant on which gearbox is fitted, check the underside of the box, many have a sticker with the part number for the oil on it.
If not check the gearbox numbers and chassis number and contact your local dealer.
With the vehicle level engine running and gearbox in park, the ATF is topped up via the filler plug when the ATF temperature is between 30 and 50 degrees centigrade, until oil is coming out of the filler plug.
Make sure you get the correct lifetime ATF there are several different oils dependant on which gearbox is fitted, check the underside of the box, many have a sticker with the part number for the oil on it.
If not check the gearbox numbers and chassis number and contact your local dealer.
Fixedwheelnut said:
Checking the ATF level is done from under the car with it connected to the diagnostics to read atf temperature.
With the vehicle level engine running and gearbox in park, the ATF is topped up via the filler plug when the ATF temperature is between 30 and 50 degrees centigrade, until oil is coming out of the filler plug.
Make sure you get the correct lifetime ATF there are several different oils dependant on which gearbox is fitted, check the underside of the box, many have a sticker with the part number for the oil on it.
If not check the gearbox numbers and chassis number and contact your local dealer.
With the vehicle level engine running and gearbox in park, the ATF is topped up via the filler plug when the ATF temperature is between 30 and 50 degrees centigrade, until oil is coming out of the filler plug.
Make sure you get the correct lifetime ATF there are several different oils dependant on which gearbox is fitted, check the underside of the box, many have a sticker with the part number for the oil on it.
If not check the gearbox numbers and chassis number and contact your local dealer.
Can it be done without the diagnostics? Or will a thermometer do?
Basically the oil temperature needs to be at 75 degrees C.
Firstly you fill the box up from cold-this is about 9 litres until it runs out.
Run it up and keep it running,and with the level bung out(dont worry its not under pressure)top it up until it again runs out(this is with the engine running)-then all you need to do is leave to run for about 10-15 minutes-normal operating temperature-there is no rocket science here,its just to ensure the oil has made it to every point,clutch pack,valve,convertor etc.
Once the oil is hot then check and top up again with the engine still running.
There are no dipstick unfortunately.
And depending on the box you have there could be more than one location for the drain and fill bungs.
Firstly you fill the box up from cold-this is about 9 litres until it runs out.
Run it up and keep it running,and with the level bung out(dont worry its not under pressure)top it up until it again runs out(this is with the engine running)-then all you need to do is leave to run for about 10-15 minutes-normal operating temperature-there is no rocket science here,its just to ensure the oil has made it to every point,clutch pack,valve,convertor etc.
Once the oil is hot then check and top up again with the engine still running.
There are no dipstick unfortunately.
And depending on the box you have there could be more than one location for the drain and fill bungs.
Thanks for all the info. I must admit I found his dire warnings of spontaneous break down at 120k a bit hard to believe! and 120k in fifth on the motorway is different to a minicab 120k.
Final bill was £600 including new atf rad, the pipes, and refilling, 50/50 labour and parts, seems about right, I'll check the spec of fluid they used. The transmission does seem to change quicker and take up drive a bit sharper, I may have had the leak for a while. Does the check control show a message if it detects low atf fluid pressure/slippage, it never did on mine.
Is it possible to diy a job like this or would filling the box be extremely difficult without a 4 post lift... I imagined it would be. Just hoping they refilled it properly now, sometimes too much knowledge is a worrying thing!
Final bill was £600 including new atf rad, the pipes, and refilling, 50/50 labour and parts, seems about right, I'll check the spec of fluid they used. The transmission does seem to change quicker and take up drive a bit sharper, I may have had the leak for a while. Does the check control show a message if it detects low atf fluid pressure/slippage, it never did on mine.
Is it possible to diy a job like this or would filling the box be extremely difficult without a 4 post lift... I imagined it would be. Just hoping they refilled it properly now, sometimes too much knowledge is a worrying thing!
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