E36 v E46 / Upgrades to improve fun factor.
Discussion
I currently have a 96 328 which is beautifully made etc but not much fun...
(I found my MX5, Prelude VTEC, MK2 Golf GTi were fun)
I was thinking of upgrading to a 330 but many sources say they have lesser build quality and are less fun.
Anyone owned both care to comment ?
Otherwise I'm wondering if engine / suspension mods are worthwhile on my 328 ?
I've tried upgrading from 15 to 16" rims and still find it lacking 'feel' would 17 or 18's help or worth changing to Toyos etc ?
(I found my MX5, Prelude VTEC, MK2 Golf GTi were fun)
I was thinking of upgrading to a 330 but many sources say they have lesser build quality and are less fun.
Anyone owned both care to comment ?
Otherwise I'm wondering if engine / suspension mods are worthwhile on my 328 ?
I've tried upgrading from 15 to 16" rims and still find it lacking 'feel' would 17 or 18's help or worth changing to Toyos etc ?
Edited by redgriff500 on Wednesday 17th January 18:02
Suspension: KW Coilover and Eibach Anti-Roll Bars
Wheels: 17" OE or BBS
have a look on www.evotechnik.net
Wheels: 17" OE or BBS
have a look on www.evotechnik.net
A quick comment on the 328 vs 330.. Having owned both for a long period >3years I can say that the 330 is a far better car all round. As for for build quality cannot find fault, coming up for 100K miles and still drives well, its used as my daily work hack and does around 600 miles a week at present...
I owned both when new and looking back the E36 328i was the best.
Mine was on standard 16" wheels and kinny 195 tyres and went sideways everywhere, was a total hoot. Empty roundabouts could be taken in a perfect drift. The e46 330i was more powerful, perhaps a tad quicker, but heavier.
I would suggest you review why its not exciting enough, personally larger wheels & tyres and a naff set of after market springs is just going to make it grip and bump more which wont neccessarily make it more fun.
Perhaps the original dampers and anti roll bar mounts are tired and would do with a refresh to sharpen things up. If its simply not quick or fast enough then a E36 M3 would be the next option for excitement as opposed to a 330i.
Bennno
Mine was on standard 16" wheels and kinny 195 tyres and went sideways everywhere, was a total hoot. Empty roundabouts could be taken in a perfect drift. The e46 330i was more powerful, perhaps a tad quicker, but heavier.
I would suggest you review why its not exciting enough, personally larger wheels & tyres and a naff set of after market springs is just going to make it grip and bump more which wont neccessarily make it more fun.
Perhaps the original dampers and anti roll bar mounts are tired and would do with a refresh to sharpen things up. If its simply not quick or fast enough then a E36 M3 would be the next option for excitement as opposed to a 330i.
Bennno
Well I bought mine after owning a 944 turbo as I needed more space.
When I corner etc I find it simply doesn't communicate whether I was on the limit or had 20mph left to play with. My MX5 and 944 were far better.
I also find the engine being so smooth doesn't really encourage you to rev it. I know it's never going to be like my VTEC but wondered whether a set of cams would improve it.
I have a trade policy and am specifically excluded from having an M3, also I have had 5 attacks on my cars in the last year and I think the M3 would draw even more attention.
I have looked at all the replacements for my 328 from Skylines to CLK to 330 and none seem to fulfil my critera any better than the 328... its just i'm bored of it.
When I corner etc I find it simply doesn't communicate whether I was on the limit or had 20mph left to play with. My MX5 and 944 were far better.
I also find the engine being so smooth doesn't really encourage you to rev it. I know it's never going to be like my VTEC but wondered whether a set of cams would improve it.
I have a trade policy and am specifically excluded from having an M3, also I have had 5 attacks on my cars in the last year and I think the M3 would draw even more attention.
I have looked at all the replacements for my 328 from Skylines to CLK to 330 and none seem to fulfil my critera any better than the 328... its just i'm bored of it.
Pop on a big bore throttle body for an east 10bhp increase and a much freer flowing top end of the rev range. Stick on some 16"ers, by all accounts they suit the car best, and then see if you can get hold of an LSD. I find my 328coupe is far nicer to drive fast than my 330 (which admittedly is an estate).
Its not that it needs more power, it's the way it delivers it.
Certainly my SC'd MX5 benefited from an LSD so that might be a good start.... I presume 330's have TC or similar, rather than a lovely fishtailing LSD ?
Unfortunately AMG are also banned by insurers, as are EVOs and porsche, everything else is ok.
Certainly my SC'd MX5 benefited from an LSD so that might be a good start.... I presume 330's have TC or similar, rather than a lovely fishtailing LSD ?
Unfortunately AMG are also banned by insurers, as are EVOs and porsche, everything else is ok.
redgriff500 said:
When I corner etc I find it simply doesn't communicate whether I was on the limit or had 20mph left to play with. My MX5 and 944 were far better.
I also find the engine being so smooth doesn't really encourage you to rev it. I know it's never going to be like my VTEC but wondered whether a set of cams would improve it.
I also find the engine being so smooth doesn't really encourage you to rev it. I know it's never going to be like my VTEC but wondered whether a set of cams would improve it.
Communication is a difficult one...I'm exploring exactly this on the S2000. Best options there (and cheap) are:-
1) 'strut braces'* (sic) to start with (upper and lower, front and rear...or as many as you can sensibly fit...I'd guess a BM forum would have some knowledgable people about this);
2) reduce the front castor if possible** (are E36's double-wishbones or McP struts?);
3) fit tyres with stiffer sidewalls...or fit larger alloys which will require lower-profile rubber;
4) and failing that if you're really serious go for stiffer bushing, including the steering rack bushes. And I know this isn't a cheap option!
1 should be a few hundred fitted, 2 is just a ton for good alignment, 3 is whatever you want it to be, 4 is
potentially. As for the engine, hotter cams may well improve matters (need a new ECU to make the best of them, and some throttle-bodies while you're at it would go quite nicely!
), but if it's slow to rev then you'll probably need some other mods. Start with a lightened flywheel as a cheap option and then look at weight-reduction on the rotating masses within the engine...which WILL get pricey! * Seems to work a treat on S2000's (which are already pretty stiff)...will let you know as I have 3 on order.
** Done this already. Slight reduction in straight line stability but increased steering feedback and more 'alert' feeling to the car.
bennno said:
thottle body wont do nowt without a remap, even if it did an extra 5% bhp is hardly going to be noticeable let alone take this this from boring to wow
bennno
bennno
Sorry I didnt realise I'd entered a pissing contest.
But no you dont need a remap for throttle bodies, not for something this basic.
The 328 can be taken up to about 230bhp with big bodies, a ported inlet manifold (or a swap to an older 325 manifold), a good free flowing filter system and a good exhaust and a remap (there is a really good website floating about complete with dyno runs for each change which proves the above).
Havoc, how does reducing the castor improve the steering feel? (genuine question)
xm5er said:
Havoc, how does reducing the castor improve the steering feel? (genuine question)
I have no idea*, but it's true for all cars. If you want a converse example - All Audis run loads of neggy castor, and what's true for all Audis?!? Zero feedback!
* I'm sure a google would reveal the tech behind it, but it's bedtime as I've an interview in the morning!
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