Expensive (and elusive) E34 or cheap E39?

[NLB]

Good morning all - another newcomer here, so please excuse any inadvertent infringement of etiquette (I have used the “search” function, honest!), and my tendency to go on a bit.

I have been following a number of threads on PH for a while - particularly the epic Best Barge Bargains (wonderful!), which has touched on a number of devices close to my tastes, namely quick 5-Series BMWs (I know a Lexus LS400 would make sense, but..... I have an elderly friend in California with one, which he claims is on it's original brake pads - at 140,000 miles - this may well not be true, but sums up the ways Lexus’ are/should be driven; you could throw one around, but it would feel wrong). I have a 1984 528, which I like, but my wife won't ride in (because it is "old" "noisy" and "uncomfortable", so we go on holiday in her 1.4 new-shape Fiesta. To Edinburgh, from London; and to Dorset with five people.... It's not as bad as one might think, but still hardly a joyous experience.

So, I am after a newer car, with a few mod cons (aircon at least – I’ve had it on my last few, more modern, cars and I do miss it). As I want decent rear-wheel-drive handling and a reasonable amount of stomp, combined with some comfort and reliability, and I don't want to pay a fortune, older BMWs are one of the few obvious possibilities. Like most people with a half-decent job, I could walk into a dealer, sign a few bits of paper, and drive out in something new or nearly new, but there is something I fundamentally resent about excessive depreciation - I'd rather buy an older 4 litre V8 and spend the money on fuel. So, I have a top limit of about £5,000, and I would be happier at half that; I prefer the look and what I know of the reputation of E34s to E39s, but......

Matters are complicated by the fact that I am tall-ish and find the stock seats in E34s wedge my head against the roof, and I need one with Sport seats to be comfortable, and also by the fact that Madame has a damaged left hip, and can't easily drive a manual; I, of course, don't really like autos. Decent big engined-E34s with Sport seats and aircon are rare-ish, 525 24v Sports are around, are nice but a bit lacking in grunt, and of course there are no semi-auto E34s. So what about earlier E39s? Which gets me (at last) to the point.

There seem to be plenty of E39 528s, 535s and 540s, with decent seats, air, and the auto-with-manual override (whatever it’s called) gearbox around within my budget, but: Are cheaper, earlier E39s going to be loads of money/trouble? Is it only the 528s that have Nikasil engine failures, or does it apply to some of the V8s as well? Any other lurking horrors? Or should I just keep searching for the elusive perfect E34? Also, any good, recommend-able dealers/specialists who handle these age/type of BMWs?

By the way, just to give me the shakes, I can't help noticing quite decent looking early E34 M5s are under 5K... but I think the fuel/servicing/insurance equation might make me quake a bit (even though I'm only doing about 10,000 miles a year at present, and I'm 48 - do tell me if I'm wrong and I could easily run a 3.6 M5 as a daily driver, and tell Madame she can't drive it!!!!).

All information gratefully received.


Regards,




Luke

[mmm-five]

By the sounds of it, you best option (taking all points into consideration), would be a late 1996 e34 540i auto (they'll all have aircon), just make sure you look for MANUAL seats as these have about 3 inches extra room below to play with (compared to the electric ones) for the taller driver.

Whether you get a late e34 or early e39 you're still going to have problems, and I thought it was the V8's that had the Nikasil problem - so if that's not been done be wary, unless it's not leaking oil which means it's probably not had high-sulphur fuel in it anyway (which is what caused the damage to the Nikasil linings).

They'll both be expensive to run as daily drivers - I use a 1994 M5 for my 15,000 miles a year which costs £3,000 in fuel alone and uses 2 sets of tyres, one set of pads, and 10L of oil per year.

The M5 would be fun, but it's got a heavy clutch, and is not happy in stop start traffic (you've got 6 throttle bodies to tickle open as you're trundling along). Then you've got to worry about the EDC suspension going (at £600 a corner).

[granville]

I see there be an E39 M5 now for < £10k.

The gates of the madhouse have been resolutely blown asunder.

My top tip is brakes, whatever anyone says, they are heavy duty items and even the 6 pot APs are goosed.

Voracious clutch consumer, too but then driving in the style of Jesse Ventura, what do you expect?

Charge!

[bmgm3]

There's a nice E39 540 in the PH classifieds just now. 6 speed manual,leather, air, met paint and a nice set of factory alloys etc etc and up for 3.5K. Wish I could have that myself. I would like a E34 540 Touring with a manual box. great looking car and even better in Touring form.E34's are simple enough and with plenty of spares about.Getting on a bit now tho, so getting one without any rust is the thing.
For servicing of any BMW on a budget, you need ETA Motorsport in Gravesend,North Kent. www.etamotorsport.co.uk

Edited by bmgm3 on Monday 6th November 19:14

[Bill Carr]

Googling for "BMW Nikasil" will tell you more than I can here, but to summarise, on the E39 it was the pre-1998 V6s that were affected; the V8s were ok. I'm not so certain about E34s I'm afraid.

I own an E39 353 Auto. It's a stonker. In the past year it's racked up 6k miles (now on 106k) and been terrific. It demolishes long distance journeys with total, absolute contempt. I'd argue that you'll get out of the car feeling fresher than you got in (certainly was the case for me on the return leg from this years Leeds Festival!). It's comfortable, fast, quite chuckable for a big car, and I really enjoy driving it. People say the "re-circulating ball" steering on the V8s isn't much cop, but I came to this car from a non-PAS mk1 MX-5, and I have no complaints at all regarding feedback or accuracy. The auto is fine at what it does, but if you use the semi-auto ("Tiptronic" you'll probably have more fun and save fuel whilst doing so.

Since buying mine, major expenses have been tyres (£95/corner for Goodyear Eagle F1s) and a service which comprised oil change, brake fluid change and front pads/discs (£500 all in at the main dealer). Fuel consumption is not great, but neither is it as terrible as it could be for a 3.5ltr V8 - 20mpg around town (Milton Keynes - lots of roundabouts!) and about 31-32 on the m'way at a steady cruise.

5 grand buys you a lot of motor. It could buy you mine Seriously - pm me if interested. It's not officially for sale yet (getting it MOT'd before I attempt to sell it) but if you want to reserve your place at the front of the queue, let me know!

[derin100]

Ok...a number of quick points:

1) I think you may be making the same wrong assessment of E34 front seats that I made (for 4 years before I realised!). I'm 6'2" and always thought the same when I got into my wife's E34 525i Touringi.e thinking the seat wouldn't go back far enough and my head was too near the roof. "How could they make a relatively big car with so little driver space...there must be some pretty big germans around?!" I even convinced myself something must be stuck in the seat runners (sweets, kids plastic toys etc...) and started searching for the problem. That was until one day I actually looked PROPERLY at the seat adjustments! The seat has a massive amount of adjustment in the 'up and down' plane. Put it in it's lowest position and right back and I think even at 6'4" you might struggle to reach the pedals and your head won't be anywhere near the roof!

2) Nikasil certainly does NOT apply only to the V8 engines nor just the 2.8L. I have an E39 523i as a daily driver which had a Nikasil engine chnage at 43K miles. having said that the car eminated from the North East of the country i.e classic Nikasil Country. However, any car that hasn't developed a Nikasil problem by now is probably unlikely so to do. I think it's true to say that pretty much all fuel available today will be ULS.

3) Thirdly, in relation to the above...who said 'V6'?!...I don't remember BMW making a V6. Anyone else?

I'm like you though. I could go into a dealership tomorrow and probably actually buy the most expensive new thing they've got available. However, exactly like you, I resent it and see it as completely 'wasteful'to take on the kind of depreciation which makes all other motoring costs pale into insignificance if I were so to do.

With the above in mind, I think realistically you're unlikely to go too far wrong with ANY of the suggestions you (and others) have made. They are all really good cars! In my humble opinion (and I know others may and probaly will disagree!), there is no doubt in my mind that the E39 is dynamically a far better car than the E34. My lowly E39 523i, in my hands, would make mince-meat of my wife's E34 525i despite the power deficit it yields to the older car. I almost found this out to my cost lastnight when, late for an appointment, I found myself in her car on a dark, twisty road, trying to make excessively rapid progress and asking it do things my E39 would have taken easily. Whatever other good points the E34 has (and there are many) there's still a very good reason why the E39 was consistently lauded as the best in its class through almost the entirety of its production run!

With the price differential narrowed by time I think en-balance if a couple of £grand extra aren't hugely an issue for you I'd go with an E39 of some description.

Just my tuppence worth.

[NLB]

Thank you all very much! Just the sort of things I needed to know!

The whole Nikasil question does bother me a bit; I googled it, searched PH, and got so much (often conflicting) information that I couldn’t quite see what was what. I think that I must assume that almost any early E39 might be affected, but that if it’s still ok, it will probably stay ok – I might check engine numbers with BMW though, and see what they say about a particular car. As I am in the South, perhaps it is less of an issue anyway (not that one wants to gamble £5K on a hopeful assumption….).

I’m sure “V6” was a slip of the finger after all the discussion of V8s…. As I have a lovely M30 straight-six in my old E28, I have come to love BMW 6s, but their 8s aren’t exactly terrible either, from the couple of 540s I’ve driven so far. In many ways, I quite like the idea of an E39 530 Sport (6, of course), but they are all a bit above what I’m prepared to spend at the moment..

E34 interiors and seats have always amazed me – I’m only 6’2”, and these cars were built for German businessmen, who can’t all be small….. Now I know I just haven’t looked properly at the adjustment (and I have spent time off and on looking for those elusive stuck sweets, too).

The points about E39s are well made; I think I ought to try one. So I’m going to look at a 540 (leather, Steptronic or whatever it’s called box, 100,000, P, £5K) in a local dealer this morning – got to start sometime!

Ah well, better do a bit of work first.

Thanks again everyone.

[ian_cab28]

I have a 1998 528 with 140k on the clock. Still drives like the 70k car we bought from the bmw dealer 4.5 years ago, worth no more than about £2.7k-3k (correct me if I'm wrong!), leather, phone, steel sunroof the works. it's a third car now I can't bring myself to get rid of it and drive it in preference to a 3.0 x5 (it's faster, smoother, less fuel).

Re: nickasil, I understand that alot of the blocks were changed by BMW before any sign of trouble. In fact on buying mine, it was being prepared when I first saw it with the sales guy, I asked about the problem and whether this feb 98 car would have the nikasil block, a nearby tech quickly looked at the engine number and said yes it was but they'd change it before the sale..just like that new short block fitted. This was a sussex/Se car, I'd be nervous of buying an unchanged car.

They are fantastic and still compare well with any exec car on the road. They have really wafting road prescence but can hunker down and demolish a b-road as well if this mood suits. 2.8 has plenty of power and torque and gives high thirties on run 26 around town. Ian

[SJobson]

I bought my 1997 E34 530i Touring in May and have done about 6,000 miles in it since - only money spent was a wheel bearing which I replaced just after I bought it, which with the MOT came to just over £200 from an indepedent specialist.

I didn't even think of an E39 at the time; my nominal budget was £2000 and I spent £2,200. I've since seen plenty of E39 540i Tourings for less than £5,000 and I fancy one of those next. However, my E34 has all the toys, Individual paint and leather, and has been pampered for all 146,000 miles of its life.

My reason for posting is that I looked at loads of E34s, and some had no air-con, some had sports seats (which I decided I didn't like anyway because they're hard to extricate yourself from) - basically specs are all different. Keep looking and you'll find something interesting. I'd be tempted by an E34 though, particularly if you don't really want to spend £5k; the best 540i Touring would only be worth about £3k, so you've just got to find the right car.