Discussion
My colleague at work has one (pre the recent engine change to the current M3 engine and addition of traction control). He likes it a lot, and reckons its a lot more fun than the 2.8 version he had previously.
The magazines never rated them, and most of the people that I know that have driven the non-M version thought they were very average.
Residuals for M cars are never good, and with the Z4 out soon Z3 residuals can only get worse. You also need to consider how your wife will cope with 321 bhp as a daily driver.
Cant you persuade her to try a Boxster/S2000/Z4 instead ?
The magazines never rated them, and most of the people that I know that have driven the non-M version thought they were very average.
Residuals for M cars are never good, and with the Z4 out soon Z3 residuals can only get worse. You also need to consider how your wife will cope with 321 bhp as a daily driver.
Cant you persuade her to try a Boxster/S2000/Z4 instead ?
I had one before my Griff and used it as my daily driver. It was the 321bhp version with no traction control.
I did not have any nasty moments in it - the characteristics of the engine are such that you need to use the revs to get the power. As such, it is relatively difficult to accidentally put down more power than is sensible. My girlfriend drove it regularly and had no problems. It is a very easy car to drive, and quite happy pootling around town. Its not got the low down torque of a V8 TVR, and thus less likely to catch you out.
I found it handled pretty well - but Porsche 964 RS drivers and journalists seem to poo poo this idea as nonsense. I know the rear susoension set up was from the E30 3 series - but it was the same as the original M3 and they all seemed to like that!
Servicing costs can be highish - there is an Inspection 2 service that requires tappet adjustment and is about £700. Other than that running costs are ok.
The VANOS bolts should have been changed under warranty and the rear shock mounts have been redesigned. The roof is a weak spot - some rub when they are folded down - it creates wear spots below the plastic window bottom corners which can wear through in time. I had three new roofs on mine. Some cars seem fine though.
I would recommend getting a car with the BMW warranty. At £400 a year it seems expensive - but when a VANOS unit costs >£2,000 - it is great peace of mind. The BMW warranty is excellent and pays out on most things. Unlike Warranty Holdings!
Second hand they are fanastic value for the performance you get. And they are fine as an only car. They are totally useless in the snow though - big low profile tyres give no grip when you are trying to go, and the ABS brakes are useless when you are trying to stop. I did intend to try the car with the ABS fuse taken out next time it snowed, but then I sold it.
I liked it a lot.
Edited to say that PHers will call you a hairdresser for driving one, and describe it as looking like a clown's shoe. But I say fcuk 'em!!
>> Edited by griff2be on Sunday 16th March 18:09
I did not have any nasty moments in it - the characteristics of the engine are such that you need to use the revs to get the power. As such, it is relatively difficult to accidentally put down more power than is sensible. My girlfriend drove it regularly and had no problems. It is a very easy car to drive, and quite happy pootling around town. Its not got the low down torque of a V8 TVR, and thus less likely to catch you out.
I found it handled pretty well - but Porsche 964 RS drivers and journalists seem to poo poo this idea as nonsense. I know the rear susoension set up was from the E30 3 series - but it was the same as the original M3 and they all seemed to like that!
Servicing costs can be highish - there is an Inspection 2 service that requires tappet adjustment and is about £700. Other than that running costs are ok.
The VANOS bolts should have been changed under warranty and the rear shock mounts have been redesigned. The roof is a weak spot - some rub when they are folded down - it creates wear spots below the plastic window bottom corners which can wear through in time. I had three new roofs on mine. Some cars seem fine though.
I would recommend getting a car with the BMW warranty. At £400 a year it seems expensive - but when a VANOS unit costs >£2,000 - it is great peace of mind. The BMW warranty is excellent and pays out on most things. Unlike Warranty Holdings!
Second hand they are fanastic value for the performance you get. And they are fine as an only car. They are totally useless in the snow though - big low profile tyres give no grip when you are trying to go, and the ABS brakes are useless when you are trying to stop. I did intend to try the car with the ABS fuse taken out next time it snowed, but then I sold it.
I liked it a lot.
Edited to say that PHers will call you a hairdresser for driving one, and describe it as looking like a clown's shoe. But I say fcuk 'em!!
>> Edited by griff2be on Sunday 16th March 18:09
I've been looking into the possibility of one of these as well.
It appears to have all the right ingredients, fast, reliable, can be used everyday and won't cost an arm and a leg to run. Regarding the looks I personally think it looks great. It also is a much improved car to the standard Z3 as it inherited a number of the 'M' parts to allow it to cope with the power.
At the moment it's up against a Porsche 964 and a Lotus Esprit GT3, so if anyone has any further comments about owning one of these it would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Paul
It appears to have all the right ingredients, fast, reliable, can be used everyday and won't cost an arm and a leg to run. Regarding the looks I personally think it looks great. It also is a much improved car to the standard Z3 as it inherited a number of the 'M' parts to allow it to cope with the power.
At the moment it's up against a Porsche 964 and a Lotus Esprit GT3, so if anyone has any further comments about owning one of these it would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Paul
I agree with everything griff has said. I came from a 968cs to a mcoupe and it shows how technology has moved on. You can drift a 968 but the mechamical grip of a bm is much higher and an easy everyday car. If you want to drive slow its fine but when you want to push on it creates hooning fun
Hi,
I've got one :-)
Its one of the 1998 ones - so pre traction control - and I think its great.
Okay its not the very last word in sophistication around corners it does thump into potholes and creak a bit over speed bumps, but nothing too bad.
But on a smooth road it really does go round corners pretty well with those big fat wheels, from about 2200rpm onwards it really does move and then it hits hyperspace at 5k+rpm.
Does it go well? Of course 320hp in a 2 seater, even if not the lightest means it goes like stink and the noise it makes is music to the ears. I once a couple of laps at an airfield day in mine and it was not many mph behind the evo VII rallart I'd been driving earlier in the day by the end of the straight.
Do you have to worry about traction? Only if you want to. When its dry there is no problem. In the wet its fine unless you push it too far. yes you can spin the wheels at 70 in the wet if you _want_ to. But then you probably shouldn't be using full power in 3rd gear uphill or round a corner in the rain.
Is it easy to drive round town/slowly - fairly. The gearbox can be a little notchy and the clutch isn't the lightest, so compared to say an MX5 then its not quite as easy. And stupidly it took me a month or two to realise its about 4 inches wider at the back than the front, which makes it even easier to kerb the wheels. and they only have to look at a kerb to get marked. the rims seem to stick out further than the tyre which is a pain.
My girlfriend who completely refused to contemplate a tvr as our ownly car is quite happy to potter off to the shops in it and doesn't seem to mind that it could do 150+, its quiet enough at 40mph in 5th that it doesn't really seem possible.....
If buying privately a proper BMW warrenty is essential - its the one their approved used cars come with, and it can be extended every year by private owners for 450 quid. If have this then every bmw garage is your best friend should a problem come up, they sort out all the paperwork for you.
In the last 15 months i've had a couple of minor things. An abs sensor was letting in water (ABS switched off every time it rained on the motorway very handy) and aircon unit went. both fixed without question FOC for me, would of been about 800 quid without.
Apart from that its been totally reliable, starts every time first time. roof doesn't let in water, all the electrics - including electric roof work fine. really boring it all works.
Probably the main things that bug me about it are both silly design issues. plastic rear screen - gets scratched easily with a mark across the middle and not electic. and you can't have heat on hands & feet at the same time, daft ommision in a convertible.
Oh and if you get the M version its really a sensible decision (honest) as it has the electic and leather everywhere as standard.
a.
I've got one :-)
Its one of the 1998 ones - so pre traction control - and I think its great.
Okay its not the very last word in sophistication around corners it does thump into potholes and creak a bit over speed bumps, but nothing too bad.
But on a smooth road it really does go round corners pretty well with those big fat wheels, from about 2200rpm onwards it really does move and then it hits hyperspace at 5k+rpm.
Does it go well? Of course 320hp in a 2 seater, even if not the lightest means it goes like stink and the noise it makes is music to the ears. I once a couple of laps at an airfield day in mine and it was not many mph behind the evo VII rallart I'd been driving earlier in the day by the end of the straight.
Do you have to worry about traction? Only if you want to. When its dry there is no problem. In the wet its fine unless you push it too far. yes you can spin the wheels at 70 in the wet if you _want_ to. But then you probably shouldn't be using full power in 3rd gear uphill or round a corner in the rain.
Is it easy to drive round town/slowly - fairly. The gearbox can be a little notchy and the clutch isn't the lightest, so compared to say an MX5 then its not quite as easy. And stupidly it took me a month or two to realise its about 4 inches wider at the back than the front, which makes it even easier to kerb the wheels. and they only have to look at a kerb to get marked. the rims seem to stick out further than the tyre which is a pain.
My girlfriend who completely refused to contemplate a tvr as our ownly car is quite happy to potter off to the shops in it and doesn't seem to mind that it could do 150+, its quiet enough at 40mph in 5th that it doesn't really seem possible.....
If buying privately a proper BMW warrenty is essential - its the one their approved used cars come with, and it can be extended every year by private owners for 450 quid. If have this then every bmw garage is your best friend should a problem come up, they sort out all the paperwork for you.
In the last 15 months i've had a couple of minor things. An abs sensor was letting in water (ABS switched off every time it rained on the motorway very handy) and aircon unit went. both fixed without question FOC for me, would of been about 800 quid without.
Apart from that its been totally reliable, starts every time first time. roof doesn't let in water, all the electrics - including electric roof work fine. really boring it all works.
Probably the main things that bug me about it are both silly design issues. plastic rear screen - gets scratched easily with a mark across the middle and not electic. and you can't have heat on hands & feet at the same time, daft ommision in a convertible.
Oh and if you get the M version its really a sensible decision (honest) as it has the electic and leather everywhere as standard.
a.
Check out the used car search on www.bmw.co.uk
They've got quite a few available at the moment!
Happy shopping!
They've got quite a few available at the moment!
Happy shopping!
I was contemplating one of these before I got my Griff. What put me off were the comments ALL my friends made about them (peer pressure? who? me?), and also the fact the boot is so small as to be pretty much useless. No easy way of shifting a suitcase and a girlfriend at the same time (pretty essential....).
pdavison said: Check out the used car search on www.bmw.co.uk
They've got quite a few available at the moment!
Happy shopping!
Yep, running through these with my local dealer at the moment. Let's just say that BMW don't update these lists too often...
AllTorque said: I was contemplating one of these before I got my Griff. What put me off were the comments ALL my friends made about them (peer pressure? who? me?), and also the fact the boot is so small as to be pretty much useless. No easy way of shifting a suitcase and a girlfriend at the same time (pretty essential....).
I used to find a '321bhp, rear wheel drive' comment generally silenced most friends comments. Especially those who drove Golf Gtis, Audi A4s etc.
You can get a set of golf clubs and a trolley in the boot.
As for the girlfriend and suitcase problem - I had this issue in 2001. I was in Germany for a month on a course, with a fair bit of kit. GF flew out towards the end for a few days and we drove back together. The solution was a BMW boot rack with a suitcase that clipped onto it. Worked really well - the only downside was you ended up with no rear visibility other than the door mirrors. Oh, and the cost of it from BMW
bluesatin said: I agree with everything griff has said. I came from a 968cs to a mcoupe and it shows how technology has moved on. You can drift a 968 but the mechamical grip of a bm is much higher and an easy everyday car. If you want to drive slow its fine but when you want to push on it creates hooning fun
Yeah, but you have the breadvan (Coupe) not the clown's show (Roadster). The Coupe is meant to outgrip and outhandle the drop top...
I have driven the M roadster hard, and especially in the wet, it doesn't feel like the best chassis in the world. Too vague seat of pants feel and power steering doesn't help. Get an E30 M3 is you want to feel more in contact with the road. However, value for money is pretty good at the moment.
I liked:
- Performance, although never as quick as you'd like as v linear and high revving engine
- Build quality and BMWness
- Value for money these days
I didn't like:
- 5 speed box, when M3 Evos of that year had 6 ratios
- slightly suspect handling in the wet (including some tailhappiness)
- cheap feeling and slightly tacky interior (plastichrome instrument surrounds)
- non electric roof (maybe just on my model year?)
- slightly vague power steering feel
Cheers
Dom
Z3 boot:
I rented a Z3 to travel around the South Island of New Zealand for two weeks. The wife's and my clothes, etc all fitted no problem. We even bought a couple of bottles of wine which we took back to the UK and they went in as well. Sure its not the largest boot in the convertible sector but, provided the missus is willing to compromise in order to have a sports car at all, one can adapt.
The BMW dealer in the UK was really intrigued when I turned up, asked for tape measure and proceeded to measure up the boot. Asks me, "What will sir be putting in it? Golf clubs fit....". I say..it has to take my guitar! He then looks at me with a quizzical expression almost saying, "And should I recognise sir?".
"Perhaps from the seventies?" 
I digress..the point is that if you want the car enough you can work your way around the boot being small.
>> Edited by Don on Monday 17th March 17:09
I rented a Z3 to travel around the South Island of New Zealand for two weeks. The wife's and my clothes, etc all fitted no problem. We even bought a couple of bottles of wine which we took back to the UK and they went in as well. Sure its not the largest boot in the convertible sector but, provided the missus is willing to compromise in order to have a sports car at all, one can adapt.
The BMW dealer in the UK was really intrigued when I turned up, asked for tape measure and proceeded to measure up the boot. Asks me, "What will sir be putting in it? Golf clubs fit....". I say..it has to take my guitar! He then looks at me with a quizzical expression almost saying, "And should I recognise sir?".
"Perhaps from the seventies?" I digress..the point is that if you want the car enough you can work your way around the boot being small.
>> Edited by Don on Monday 17th March 17:09
my response:
Steering does feel a bit vague initially. After a couple of days with the car you get used to it.
I didn't ever have a problem with the car in the wet - especially on S02's. The standard Dunlops were pants though.
Electric roof was standard after the initial run of cars. Makes the TVR roof look faintly ridiculous in terms of ease of use!
Interior - Top Gear's (who?) biggest moan about the car was the horrendous two tone dash. However, they failed to mention that you could spec it as all black, or in black/dark grey (as mine was) - rather than the more common garish black/blue or black/red. The more sombre dash makes a huge difference to the look of the interior. For what it is worth, the ladies ferried about to the swimming pool and tennis courts during my month in Germany
unanimously preferred the interior of my M to a colleagues 993.
It was far too expensive when new (my car would have cost >£43,000 in 1998, with the fitted options). BMW eventually realised this and lopped about £6k off the new price about 3 years ago. The secondhand market always knew they were overpriced initially and used values reflected this. As Domster says, they are very good value now.
Steering does feel a bit vague initially. After a couple of days with the car you get used to it.
I didn't ever have a problem with the car in the wet - especially on S02's. The standard Dunlops were pants though.
Electric roof was standard after the initial run of cars. Makes the TVR roof look faintly ridiculous in terms of ease of use!
Interior - Top Gear's (who?) biggest moan about the car was the horrendous two tone dash. However, they failed to mention that you could spec it as all black, or in black/dark grey (as mine was) - rather than the more common garish black/blue or black/red. The more sombre dash makes a huge difference to the look of the interior. For what it is worth, the ladies ferried about to the swimming pool and tennis courts during my month in Germany
unanimously preferred the interior of my M to a colleagues 993. It was far too expensive when new (my car would have cost >£43,000 in 1998, with the fitted options). BMW eventually realised this and lopped about £6k off the new price about 3 years ago. The secondhand market always knew they were overpriced initially and used values reflected this. As Domster says, they are very good value now.
All fair points.
I was quite taken by the idea of an M Coupe (again, good value for money), but was worried about residuals. Plumped for a 964RS instead, twice the age, twice the mileage, but no depreciation.
Anyway, that's gone and I have a 3 series now as my 'sensible' runabout.
Cheers
Domster
I was quite taken by the idea of an M Coupe (again, good value for money), but was worried about residuals. Plumped for a 964RS instead, twice the age, twice the mileage, but no depreciation.
Anyway, that's gone and I have a 3 series now as my 'sensible' runabout.
Cheers
Domster
Yeah, that is going as soon as I can get the respray booked in... stuck on with superglue 
It had a few other badges on the back as well, but no Adrian Jaye vinyl laydee on the bonnet. (See General gassing boo boo thread for reference). 
It is a bit of a pimpmobile at the moment, but as soon as I remove the neons, tinted glass...
It was done by a company called Ultimate Cars, a BMW specialist based near Cheltenham AFAIK, and the car was owned by a mate of mine called Bernard.
Originally it was a 325i coupe, then someone put a pre-Vanos M3 lump in it, then Bernard authorised V8 power from an 840.
Performance wise it has a ton more torque than an M3 but doesn't feel quicker - maybe even marginally slower. I think this is because the mapping isn't resolved - it runs rich - and it feels more like about 250bhp than the 300bhp it would have in theory with good mapping.
I am going to sort the final drive as it feels too short at the moment, and get the handing resolved with a Schnitzer RS package. Plus I have been offered a supercharger for it, which is tempting...
I would like a nice genuine 300-400bhp out of it, with Recaros to save a few kgs and with decent suspension. Plus I will upgrade to M3 brakes. Then it will be at least as quick as a genuine M3, maybe even an E46 one.
Cheers
Dom
Originally it was a 325i coupe, then someone put a pre-Vanos M3 lump in it, then Bernard authorised V8 power from an 840.
Performance wise it has a ton more torque than an M3 but doesn't feel quicker - maybe even marginally slower. I think this is because the mapping isn't resolved - it runs rich - and it feels more like about 250bhp than the 300bhp it would have in theory with good mapping.
I am going to sort the final drive as it feels too short at the moment, and get the handing resolved with a Schnitzer RS package. Plus I have been offered a supercharger for it, which is tempting...
I would like a nice genuine 300-400bhp out of it, with Recaros to save a few kgs and with decent suspension. Plus I will upgrade to M3 brakes. Then it will be at least as quick as a genuine M3, maybe even an E46 one.
Cheers
Dom
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