Discussion
Here's a recent thread boaut E34 M5s:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=295894&f=72&h=0
£1,400 for insurance at the age of 19 sounds incredibly good.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=295894&f=72&h=0
£1,400 for insurance at the age of 19 sounds incredibly good.
Which model specifically are you looking at? The early 5-speed, 3.6L, 315bhp, 17" wheels one or the later 5-speed, 3.8L, 340bhp, 17" wheels one, or the later 6-speed, 3.8L, 340bhp, 18" wheels one, or the last of the line 3.8L, 340bhp, LE, 18" wheels version?
Lots of info can be found/sought on www.m5board.com/vbulletin/
Either way they are a great car to drive (even with the straight-ahead 2-inch play in the steering), but you need to be careful when buying as a lot of problems can be hidden quite easily and you can be duped by body/paintwork.
Early, high mileage models are now seen on ebay for £2k, with the last of the line LE models going for £10k.
Some say the 3.6 is more reliable than the 3.8 as it is less stressed and the cylinder walls are thicker, but there's not a lot of evidence to prove this and as long as regular maintenance has been performed and correct oil used they should both see out 200,000 miles.
The cars have a duplex timing chain which is bullet proof - as long as you keep the timing chain tensioner in good working order, and most have upgraded the original one to the later e36 M3 S50 tensioner (BMW upgraded the M3 version, but didn't bother for the M5).
Be warned that if something does go wrong, it is usually not cheap! Gearbox rebuild cost £1500 and only tend to last 10,000 miles, and a new 'box will set yo back £3k.
If you have the later Nurburgring suspension package, then you are looking at £600 a corner for suspension when they go - which isn't always that noticeable as they usually revert to their hardest setting. If they dampers are leaking then they need replacing, however a small amount of 'weeping' is permitted as it keeps the seals lubricated.
Valve clearances on the engine need regular checking/adjusting (about every 20,000 miles for me) which has the benefit of making the engine slightly less rattly on start-ups. Don't forget that this is not a smooth engine at tickover as it's got a 'semi-race' cam and a 850-900rpm tickover. You might also get a bit of rattling noise from the gearbox which, if it disappears when you press the clutch, it likely to be a worn clutch spring at the least.
These cars do like a bit of oil, and 1L of the stuff is not uncommon per 2000 miles - as long as it's not on the drive then your fine, you might even get a glance of it occassionally coming out of the exhaust on hard acceleration after a steady cruise.
If you're not mechanically minded, then my biggest piece of advice is find a specialist/independent who you trust and knows M engines, if you can't trust them then you'll never know if they're ripping you off. Most dealers no longer have the staff who know their stuff on these older motors anymore, they just employ fitters to replace anythig that's broken and charge £120/hour for the privilege.
------
I pay £750 for a 1994 3.8 6-speed - which is parked on the street in Liverpool, but I am 36, with full NCB so that will make a difference. Although with no NCB I'd be looking at £2k?
I'm currently facing a dilemma as I was saving up to get a bare metal respray of mine which could cost £3k. But as I thought I'd be keeping the car a lot longer (already had it 6 years), I thought it would be a good things to do. Unfortunately I felt the rear end was a bit 'loose' and asked a dealer to look at it.......BIG MISTAKE....they've told me I need all new suspension (4 struts, 4 springs, top mounts all round, bushes, etc) and it will cost.......well they haven't actually provided me with a quote yet, depsite me asking many times, just an estimate of the rough cost of the parts of £2500.
Lots of info can be found/sought on www.m5board.com/vbulletin/
Either way they are a great car to drive (even with the straight-ahead 2-inch play in the steering), but you need to be careful when buying as a lot of problems can be hidden quite easily and you can be duped by body/paintwork.
Early, high mileage models are now seen on ebay for £2k, with the last of the line LE models going for £10k.
Some say the 3.6 is more reliable than the 3.8 as it is less stressed and the cylinder walls are thicker, but there's not a lot of evidence to prove this and as long as regular maintenance has been performed and correct oil used they should both see out 200,000 miles.
The cars have a duplex timing chain which is bullet proof - as long as you keep the timing chain tensioner in good working order, and most have upgraded the original one to the later e36 M3 S50 tensioner (BMW upgraded the M3 version, but didn't bother for the M5).
Be warned that if something does go wrong, it is usually not cheap! Gearbox rebuild cost £1500 and only tend to last 10,000 miles, and a new 'box will set yo back £3k.
If you have the later Nurburgring suspension package, then you are looking at £600 a corner for suspension when they go - which isn't always that noticeable as they usually revert to their hardest setting. If they dampers are leaking then they need replacing, however a small amount of 'weeping' is permitted as it keeps the seals lubricated.
Valve clearances on the engine need regular checking/adjusting (about every 20,000 miles for me) which has the benefit of making the engine slightly less rattly on start-ups. Don't forget that this is not a smooth engine at tickover as it's got a 'semi-race' cam and a 850-900rpm tickover. You might also get a bit of rattling noise from the gearbox which, if it disappears when you press the clutch, it likely to be a worn clutch spring at the least.
These cars do like a bit of oil, and 1L of the stuff is not uncommon per 2000 miles - as long as it's not on the drive then your fine, you might even get a glance of it occassionally coming out of the exhaust on hard acceleration after a steady cruise.
If you're not mechanically minded, then my biggest piece of advice is find a specialist/independent who you trust and knows M engines, if you can't trust them then you'll never know if they're ripping you off. Most dealers no longer have the staff who know their stuff on these older motors anymore, they just employ fitters to replace anythig that's broken and charge £120/hour for the privilege.
------
I pay £750 for a 1994 3.8 6-speed - which is parked on the street in Liverpool, but I am 36, with full NCB so that will make a difference. Although with no NCB I'd be looking at £2k?
I'm currently facing a dilemma as I was saving up to get a bare metal respray of mine which could cost £3k. But as I thought I'd be keeping the car a lot longer (already had it 6 years), I thought it would be a good things to do. Unfortunately I felt the rear end was a bit 'loose' and asked a dealer to look at it.......BIG MISTAKE....they've told me I need all new suspension (4 struts, 4 springs, top mounts all round, bushes, etc) and it will cost.......well they haven't actually provided me with a quote yet, depsite me asking many times, just an estimate of the rough cost of the parts of £2500.
job38 said:
Every time I get close to taking the plunge and start looking seriously for an E34 M5 I see one of your excellently informative posts.........
AND, it scares the poo out of me
and puts me off!
They are seriously big bills!
AND, it scares the poo out of me
and puts me off! They are seriously big bills!
That's just to keep all the good ones in the hands of 'enthusiasts' like me, who'll help keep the price of later ones like mine high
mmm-five said:
I'm currently facing a dilemma as I was saving up to get a bare metal respray of mine which could cost £3k. But as I thought I'd be keeping the car a lot longer (already had it 6 years), I thought it would be a good things to do. Unfortunately I felt the rear end was a bit 'loose' and asked a dealer to look at it.......BIG MISTAKE....they've told me I need all new suspension (4 struts, 4 springs, top mounts all round, bushes, etc) and it will cost.......well they haven't actually provided me with a quote yet, depsite me asking many times, just an estimate of the rough cost of the parts of £2500.
Perchance said dealer is bending you over for a good rogering. Your's has EDC IIRC, when they go, they dont go a bit at a time, they just stop working all together (in my experience). In other words your back end would be pogoing like a demented Pistols fan in 1977. Actually the first symptom was that they only worked on the hard setting. However I'd look at the Scnitzer alternative if you have to replace everything as it has a good reputation and chimes in at about £1200 notes (though you'll have to get 3.6 spec lower front wishbones).
Alternatively get a second opinion from Rockvale BMW in Stockport, they are good guys who know their way around an M5 and wont rip you off.
I agree with the assessment of attempted buggery - and my current bit of work with them was being used as a test to see whether I'd trust them to do the suspension and paint job. The test has been well and truely failed!
The fronts were replaced 3 years ago, new springs were fitted all round 18 months ago, and I thought that at 168,000 miles the rears were probably past their best.
Unfortunately when they 'go' they tend to default to the sport position - which is fine most of the time. I've had a jacked up kangaroo ride before, and that was only because they'd reset the SLS and it was about 8 inches too high - that thing did not want to turn corners though.
Replacing the whole lot had been a choice of mine since before I did the fronts, but all the research and testing I did at the time (including trying other M5s with Schnitzer, Hartge, Bilstein, H&R, Koni, KW set-ups), showed one flaw - you either had them bone hard for the track or semi-bone-hard for the road. The suspension companies don't bother doing a lot of research for our cars as there isn't a huge market for them. All the set-ups I've tried have been semi-track versions, or people making up kits on their own.
The EDC system is still being used today on newer models, and it's a great compromise between stiff suspension when pushing on and supple ride when cruising.
Most of us e34 M5 owners were waiting for the day last year when BMW's licence with Boge came to an end so that we could purchase the struts direct at a 50% cost. Unfortunately BMW chose to renew the licence 'to guarantee future supplies' for use poor e34 owners. However it still takes 2 months to get one on back-order, and I'm still waiting for a cooling hose after two weeks.
The fronts were replaced 3 years ago, new springs were fitted all round 18 months ago, and I thought that at 168,000 miles the rears were probably past their best.
Unfortunately when they 'go' they tend to default to the sport position - which is fine most of the time. I've had a jacked up kangaroo ride before, and that was only because they'd reset the SLS and it was about 8 inches too high - that thing did not want to turn corners though.
Replacing the whole lot had been a choice of mine since before I did the fronts, but all the research and testing I did at the time (including trying other M5s with Schnitzer, Hartge, Bilstein, H&R, Koni, KW set-ups), showed one flaw - you either had them bone hard for the track or semi-bone-hard for the road. The suspension companies don't bother doing a lot of research for our cars as there isn't a huge market for them. All the set-ups I've tried have been semi-track versions, or people making up kits on their own.
The EDC system is still being used today on newer models, and it's a great compromise between stiff suspension when pushing on and supple ride when cruising.
Most of us e34 M5 owners were waiting for the day last year when BMW's licence with Boge came to an end so that we could purchase the struts direct at a 50% cost. Unfortunately BMW chose to renew the licence 'to guarantee future supplies' for use poor e34 owners. However it still takes 2 months to get one on back-order, and I'm still waiting for a cooling hose after two weeks.
Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 12th October 18:02
Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 12th October 18:04
mmm-five said:
Most of us e34 M5 owners were waiting for the day last year when BMW's licence with Boge came to an end so that we could purchase the struts direct at a 50% cost. Unfortunately BMW chose to renew the licence 'to guarantee future supplies' for use poor e34 owners.
Tossers! I was waiting for that when I had mine. Wasnt there an aerospace guy on the m5board who was looking at stripping and rebuilding the struts, or did that come to nothing?
Given what you just said about the fact that you had new springs 18 months ago it sounds like these guys are really taking the piss. If you want Rockvales number let me know (though you'll find it on yell.com easily enough).
xm5er said:
mmm-five said:
Most of us e34 M5 owners were waiting for the day last year when BMW's licence with Boge came to an end so that we could purchase the struts direct at a 50% cost. Unfortunately BMW chose to renew the licence 'to guarantee future supplies' for use poor e34 owners.
Tossers! I was waiting for that when I had mine. Wasnt there an aerospace guy on the m5board who was looking at stripping and rebuilding the struts, or did that come to nothing?
Given what you just said about the fact that you had new springs 18 months ago it sounds like these guys are really taking the piss. If you want Rockvales number let me know (though you'll find it on yell.com easily enough).
Yes, there was a guy (Garcia) planning on doing some rebuilds, but he moved back to the US and then some family problems meant he couldn't commit any time to it. He explained it all to us and no-one feels anything but sympathy for him.
Other guys have had local hydraulic engineers look at them as well, but they seem to be one-offs and can't seem to get more of them done!
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff