Refining the sporting E39 bouquet...
Discussion
What is the accepted wisdom re B10 3.3 Alpinas?
There seem plenty about but what (perhaps in ignorance) attracts from afar are as follows:
Maintains the classic prev gen 5 series asethetic and practicality;
Adds back a soupcon of comfort via some stodge of spring;
Allows access to a more relaxed cog slusher;
Possesses a bespokey interior and (if carefully selected) exterior;
Has the definitive, uber cream producing 6 pot block 'neath the hood;
Still manages in excess of 160mph;
Can be obtained (via main Bee-Em dealers) with non-stellar mileages;
Is unlikely to depreciate by a fortune over 2-3 years.
A local main dealer has one; I may accidentally get lost and find myself there later today to find out, anyway.
Or should I start acting my age, give in to my socio-economic destiny and submit to the former outpurings of Browns Lane, via the irresistable elegance of the older series XJ-R, main dealeried, 40-50k up for £10-20k???
I appreciate this is a diversion away from recent meanderings viz a vis rice viggenery but last night's exceptional blast up an astonishingly quiet M6 had me pondering once more, the more mature joys of deeply honed, massively engineered, big performance saloon veloceraption with 1800+ kilos of momentum stimulating the charge hither.
Confused.North
There seem plenty about but what (perhaps in ignorance) attracts from afar are as follows:
Maintains the classic prev gen 5 series asethetic and practicality;
Adds back a soupcon of comfort via some stodge of spring;
Allows access to a more relaxed cog slusher;
Possesses a bespokey interior and (if carefully selected) exterior;
Has the definitive, uber cream producing 6 pot block 'neath the hood;
Still manages in excess of 160mph;
Can be obtained (via main Bee-Em dealers) with non-stellar mileages;
Is unlikely to depreciate by a fortune over 2-3 years.
A local main dealer has one; I may accidentally get lost and find myself there later today to find out, anyway.
Or should I start acting my age, give in to my socio-economic destiny and submit to the former outpurings of Browns Lane, via the irresistable elegance of the older series XJ-R, main dealeried, 40-50k up for £10-20k???
I appreciate this is a diversion away from recent meanderings viz a vis rice viggenery but last night's exceptional blast up an astonishingly quiet M6 had me pondering once more, the more mature joys of deeply honed, massively engineered, big performance saloon veloceraption with 1800+ kilos of momentum stimulating the charge hither.
Confused.North
I have an Alpina B3 3.4S, and very nice it is too. I'd largely agree with all your points, I also find the suspension perfect for the UK. As you say, more compliant, softer riding. However, I also find it more composed than the 330Ci Sport I had before- none of the 'pogo-ing' motion experienced over a typical undulating UK b-road, and none of the skipping over bumps. Somehow the whole package has bags of character.
Defo worth a look I'd say, also have a look over at www.thealpinaregister.com for specific Alpina advice on their forum.
Dunno what your budget is but I suspect you might also find the B10 V8 within reach, which can also be had as a Touring.
Jag XJR would be nice too though.
Defo worth a look I'd say, also have a look over at www.thealpinaregister.com for specific Alpina advice on their forum.
Dunno what your budget is but I suspect you might also find the B10 V8 within reach, which can also be had as a Touring.
Jag XJR would be nice too though.
Just to be clear, looking at your profile: Are you currently driving the E39 M5, i.e. it would PX for the Alpina, or?
I also seriously considered the XJR, and even drove to the (dodgy) dealer who had a 2002 with 60K for 18.000 euro (which was a bargain), testdrove it (the 5th XJR I have testdriven) and was once again confirmed in that:
- it is a most beautiful thing to lay your eyes on
- it is a most horrid thing to drive: e.g. spongy, feel-less brakes, mushy suspension, super-light steering
- it is VERY thirsty
- it is VERY cramped: I am 6 ft, so by no means a giant, but headroom is virtually non-existing
- it feels slow: while it may have 370 bhp and lots of torque, it feels gutless and was kicking down all the time
If I were you, I would stick with the M5
I also seriously considered the XJR, and even drove to the (dodgy) dealer who had a 2002 with 60K for 18.000 euro (which was a bargain), testdrove it (the 5th XJR I have testdriven) and was once again confirmed in that:
- it is a most beautiful thing to lay your eyes on
- it is a most horrid thing to drive: e.g. spongy, feel-less brakes, mushy suspension, super-light steering
- it is VERY thirsty
- it is VERY cramped: I am 6 ft, so by no means a giant, but headroom is virtually non-existing
- it feels slow: while it may have 370 bhp and lots of torque, it feels gutless and was kicking down all the time
If I were you, I would stick with the M5
Rassi,
Thanks for that warning: it wouldn't surprise me if the M5 has spoiled me ito expectations, it's just so utterly complete and planted in a way I can't honestly say I've experienced before or since.
However, I'm sure a similar feeling might be had towards the Alpinas.
The concept of acquiring a replacement E39 M5, similarly aged but with 30-40k less miles under the wheels, from a main dealer, fully warrantied, for low £20ks is far from gross illogic and might sustain me until such time as the current M5 cars are being fly tipped for the mutual benefit of the pauper contingent of M-sport cogniscence.
Thanks for that warning: it wouldn't surprise me if the M5 has spoiled me ito expectations, it's just so utterly complete and planted in a way I can't honestly say I've experienced before or since.
However, I'm sure a similar feeling might be had towards the Alpinas.
The concept of acquiring a replacement E39 M5, similarly aged but with 30-40k less miles under the wheels, from a main dealer, fully warrantied, for low £20ks is far from gross illogic and might sustain me until such time as the current M5 cars are being fly tipped for the mutual benefit of the pauper contingent of M-sport cogniscence.
As a driving tool, no doubt about it that the E39 M5 is a winner.
B10 3.3 Alpina is an interesting and subtle (in BMW terms) alternative.
An X300 XJR is a completely different proposition. They dont handle like an M5, I'd be the first to agree, but that would be missing the point.........
Still THE most gorgeous saloon!
The exterior form is drop-dead-gorgeous, nothing out there can compare. Its has classic lines that we just won't see the likes of again. Inside, its the best interior this side of an £80K AMV8.
Slow they aint, 370bhp, 387lb/ft torque! Most importantly, the transmission and power delivery is ideally geared for British road driving ie., busy roads, poor surface, need for quick 'point and squirt'.
B10 3.3 Alpina is an interesting and subtle (in BMW terms) alternative.
An X300 XJR is a completely different proposition. They dont handle like an M5, I'd be the first to agree, but that would be missing the point.........
Still THE most gorgeous saloon!
The exterior form is drop-dead-gorgeous, nothing out there can compare. Its has classic lines that we just won't see the likes of again. Inside, its the best interior this side of an £80K AMV8.
Slow they aint, 370bhp, 387lb/ft torque! Most importantly, the transmission and power delivery is ideally geared for British road driving ie., busy roads, poor surface, need for quick 'point and squirt'.
DeR, my neighbour has a B10 3.3,bought new in 2001, a nice car...he cannot find anything to replace it with....especially considering it's trade in value!
Total waste of time for you....it is certainly more refined, but nowhere near quick enough for you......time to scratch that ricer boy itch..."Innit!"
You are aware the B10 is available with a 4.6 V8 I assume??
Total waste of time for you....it is certainly more refined, but nowhere near quick enough for you......time to scratch that ricer boy itch..."Innit!"
You are aware the B10 is available with a 4.6 V8 I assume??
Edited by clubsport on Wednesday 23 August 20:34
job38 said:
E55 ! ? ............all the charm of a mass grave 
I've driven many mercs over the years including a few AMG's I've not driven the E55 Kompressor so I don't know about the charm or driving feel.
Although there is an estate version which would be a useful option to DeR and family, has an auto gearbox for commutes through traffic and it's bloody quick. If DeRe wants ultimate handling he's got the porsche and the Caterham to play with. I think before buying anything else he should at least try driving the obvious M5 alternatives ie the E55 and the RS6.
DAZ
Edited by dazren on Wednesday 23 August 22:19
As much as I admire and respect my car - nee love - the M5 is still the ultimate version of the E39 in my eyes. BUT, I still have a soft spot for the XJR - I dont really know why. I guess its the understated performance and the whine of the 'charger. Its the same thing with older Astons - no practical reason to actually like them since the German equivalents are / were much better.
They just look soo good and are not as brash or bold as their competitors - they say something about the owner. Or do they appeal to people who dont need to demonstrate the power....
Dont know - M5 is the daddy but the XJR just has an alure....
They just look soo good and are not as brash or bold as their competitors - they say something about the owner. Or do they appeal to people who dont need to demonstrate the power....
Dont know - M5 is the daddy but the XJR just has an alure....
Job38,
Beautiful XJR you have!
I find myself utterly seduced by the looks of the XJR, and as I said, have test-driven 5. Each time I have left it feeling frustrated by the fact that I can't think of a more beautiful saloon, while the driving experience has left me completely cold.
The last one, the 2002, I was ready to buy and arrived at the dealer with 18000 euro in cash to drive it away, but ended up getting my 2002 M5 instead. It just feels so taut, muscular, involved, with direct steering, brakes, etc, and giving that much more control by being a manual. It does the motorway blasting as well as B-roads in utter confidence, and just feels at least a car of this decade whereas the XJR is a bit like driving an limousine from the early 90s.
Beautiful XJR you have!
I find myself utterly seduced by the looks of the XJR, and as I said, have test-driven 5. Each time I have left it feeling frustrated by the fact that I can't think of a more beautiful saloon, while the driving experience has left me completely cold.
The last one, the 2002, I was ready to buy and arrived at the dealer with 18000 euro in cash to drive it away, but ended up getting my 2002 M5 instead. It just feels so taut, muscular, involved, with direct steering, brakes, etc, and giving that much more control by being a manual. It does the motorway blasting as well as B-roads in utter confidence, and just feels at least a car of this decade whereas the XJR is a bit like driving an limousine from the early 90s.
off_again said:
Rassi,
Tell me you didnt by a 2002 M5 for 18,000 Euros... please..... thats just not fair....
Tell me you didnt by a 2002 M5 for 18,000 Euros... please..... thats just not fair....
Wish I could have done that... but paid 27000 euro for a PERFECT (and I mean perfect, interior/exterior + wheels) 3/2002 with 108.000 km, one owner, FSH and 1 year BMW Europlus warranty. Options: Full coms package + double glazing. Is it worth the 10.000 euro more? YES!!
I love that XJ-R, the poster has my upmost admiration - hail to thee, Squire - it is just as you have said.
But, methinks the M5 will be staying; having spoken to numerous denizens of the realm the consensus is clear: nothing will compare ito vfm until Mercedes rethink their pricing on their stunning (used) E55 AMG estates and/or E60 M5s are sub £30k. I respect Audis hugely but do not hold an Llb.
A Walletierre tighter than anything found in Yorkshire,
Sporran McDeR.
But, methinks the M5 will be staying; having spoken to numerous denizens of the realm the consensus is clear: nothing will compare ito vfm until Mercedes rethink their pricing on their stunning (used) E55 AMG estates and/or E60 M5s are sub £30k. I respect Audis hugely but do not hold an Llb.
A Walletierre tighter than anything found in Yorkshire,
Sporran McDeR.
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