Quentin's appraisal of the E34 M5 in Classic Cars

[granville]

I do miss QW's 2nd hand bargain analyses, he really needs to get back on to TG then they can squeeze him into the slot which 'Smug Dullard in a Turd' desperately needs to vacate.

He basically says it's ace and although most are complete canines, so long as you get a good 'un from a toff you're in for an uncommon quota of lairy larks.

I reckon he's got a bloody good point and I reckon anyone without, should start the process of availment pdq.

There's something about the E34 shape and in this guise, a quintessential Q car which seemed good enough for Lauda, soo...

[off_again]

They are destined to be a sure-fire classic motor in a few years. A cracker (seen a few before) is going for about £7k which makes it a bit of a bargain - what else can you get with 340BHP for that price? They handle well, go like stink and are pretty reliable if looked after.

Only one thing though - the power is quite top-ended and might not seem that quick. Also, if it hasnt been quite fettled correctly they will be down on quite a lot of power. A chap I know had a 3.6 (the 315BHP model) which, when rolling roaded, came in at 260BHP! A good mechanic re-setup the throttle bodies and he was back up to 300+BHP. Though balancing six throttle bodies does take quite a bit of patience and skill.

Take a look on autotrader - there are a few crackers on this week - I must admit that I am tempted...

[apache]

A most satisfying car, mine was a 3.6 and was in good fettle, needs to be kept on the boil to perform but was so accomplished. There's a few on classifieds that look very tempting but bear in mind things like a blowing head gasket will mean an angine out job

[derin100]

And, in my opinion, the 3.6L was by far the more understated and handsome car! The original wheels on the 3.6L gave it the ultimate in stealth! To the un-trained eye they looked like wheel covers covering steel wheels on a 518i!

[job38]

Love the E34, the M5 was obviously the top of the food chain.

However, I have heard that they can be very expensive to run. Personally I prefer the 535i Sport, looks pretty much the same, 215bhp. OK, so its not 315-340bhp, but the engine will be considerably more reliable.

If you want a classic sports saloon, £7K will get you an XJR V8 with 370bhp 387lb/ft

Having said all of that, I'd still love an E34 M5 Touring

[mmm-five]

job38 said:

Love the E34, the M5 was obviously the top of the food chain.

However, I have heard that they can be very expensive to run. Personally I prefer the 535i Sport, looks pretty much the same, 215bhp. OK, so its not 315-340bhp, but the engine will be considerably more reliable.

If you want a classic sports saloon, £7K will get you an XJR V8 with 370bhp 387lb/ft

Having said all of that, I'd still love an E34 M5 Touring

They can be expensive to run, however I've not heard of many S38 engines going pop! Work out how much it will cost you to run in a year and then double it! Mine does 20k miles a year and that means 2 inspections (at £300-£900 each, depending on where you take it) and 4 oil changes which I do myself (£50 each). Then there's the £600 cost of at least a set of tyres a year, and then petrol at an average 20mpg (1000 gallons @ £0.95/l = £4500), and you end up with a yearly bill of about £7k.

I believe the supercharged XJR (the 340bhp model) of the same era has it's issues as well...it may be cheaper to run, but they've got a higher failure rate than the M5.

Before I purchased my 3.8 M5 in 2000, I looked at a few £14k-£16k alternatives...1) Mercedes e55 AMG, 2) Jaguar XJR, 3) Alpina B-10 Bi-Turbo, 4) Holden Commodore; 5) Lotus Vauxhall/Opel Carlton/Omega.

I finally settled on the M5 because it was the only one that had the combination of performance, handling and high-revving engine. The other were great long-distance cruisers with the ability to have a bit of fun when the time came, but I wanted more fun with the ability to cruise as a secondary requirement.

I ruled out the others as such:
1) E55 available in auto only, lots of low-mid grunt but not much excitement;
2) Jaguar XJR had a few issues at the time, was auto only and was a bit soft in the handling stakes;
3) Alpina B10 B-Turbo was LHD only (interior looks very dated now though);
4) Holden were quite unknown in the at the time, drank way too much petrol (15mpg was quoted at the time) and not particularly fast or poised;
5) Scary reports of huge bills and inability to source spares, drank like a fish when on boost, and expensive to buy even then.

[job38]

I like your style if you're doing 20K miles a year in an E34 M5

The XJR I referred to is the post 1998 V8 which is 370bhp, 387lb/ft.
It does indeed have a risk of the engine going 'pop' if the timing chain tensioners aren't changed.
I agree that the handling and brakes are a bit soft, always preferred the traditional springs and dampers of the E34.

E55 - about as much charm as a mass grave

Alpina B10 Bi-turbo - always, always fancied one of those monsters. Re: dated interior, surely the same as the M5? (apart from dubious Alpina bits).

[mmm-five]

job38 said:

Alpina B10 Bi-turbo - always, always fancied one of those monsters. Re: dated interior, surely the same as the M5? (apart from dubious Alpina bits).

It's exactly the Alpina bits that make it look so dated - the colours just don't work anymore.

I've got 168,000 on mine (although a previous owner did have new engine, gearbox & exhaust fitted at 59,000 by BMW after they ruined it during an inspection by unknowingly dropping a tool into the cylinder and starting it up).

The expensive bit on the later e34s is the EDC suspension if it ever goes wrong (or gets old - 100k miles is about average) - it's about £500 a corner, plus fitting. Steering can get a bit loose as it uses a recirculating ball system as there wasn't enough space to fit a proper rack & pinion system - you can tighten the pre-tensioner a little though.

[job38]

Ah, right, get your drift about the B10 interior, lots of 'plastic' wood and turquoise highlights.

Re: 'Nurburgring' suspension, can't you replace with conventional springs and dampers?

Says he, talking himself into an M5 Touring.......

[XM5ER]

job38 said:

Ah, right, get your drift about the B10 interior, lots of 'plastic' wood and turquoise highlights.

Re: 'Nurburgring' suspension, can't you replace with conventional springs and dampers?

Says he, talking himself into an M5 Touring.......

Yes you can but it involes fitting the lower suspension arms from the earlier model, its a schnitzer kit IIRC. There was a chap on BMWCC forums that had one with the kit fitted and he rated it very highly. The EDC can start to go from 70k miles so look out, they pretty much all go at once as well so budget £2000plus for EDC or £1500 for schnitzer.

Its a bit of an odd car IMO as it feels a bit cumbersome at low speeds but when you hound it it feels like a different (and vastly superior) car.

[Paddy27]

Always wanted an e34 M5 just wish i could afford one, untill i can i will stick to my 535. My dad drives the e39 535 with the v8 and he still prefers mine and wish he had bought an e34!! Proves i have taste.

They are great looking and handling cars.

I prefer the 3.8L M5, the wheels were a lot nicer, still they were the last of the realy Q cars.

Paddy

[apache]

Paddy27 said:

Always wanted an e34 M5 just wish i could afford one, untill i can i will stick to my 535. My dad drives the e39 535 with the v8 and he still prefers mine and wish he had bought an e34!! Proves i have taste.

They are great looking and handling cars.

I prefer the 3.8L M5, the wheels were a lot nicer, still they were the last of the realy Q cars.

Paddy

I'm pretty sure the 3.6 was the last of the hand built ones too, mine had signatures scrawled behind the door cards etc

[mmm-five]

apache said:

Paddy27 said:

Always wanted an e34 M5 just wish i could afford one, untill i can i will stick to my 535. My dad drives the e39 535 with the v8 and he still prefers mine and wish he had bought an e34!! Proves i have taste.

They are great looking and handling cars.

I prefer the 3.8L M5, the wheels were a lot nicer, still they were the last of the realy Q cars.

Paddy

I'm pretty sure the 3.6 was the last of the hand built ones too, mine had signatures scrawled behind the door cards etc

They were still handbuilt up until the last 3.8 LE was produced. Sigantures can be found in many different places, door cards, battery compartent under the rear seat, inside the bumpers (mine is signed inside the front bumper), etc.

The reason not to put after-market suspension on is two-fold: 1) the car is no longer original and most insurance companies will charge a premium for 'modifying'; 2) the EDC is adaptive and switchable to give you a soft(er) ride at lower speeds and then tighten up when pushing on - after-market suspension doesn't do that, even with progressive systems.

However, as I like my suspension on the 'sports' setting all the time and do a few trackdays, I think the next time I need suspension replacing I might investigate a custom made adjustable kit, keeping the same ride height as now.

[Derek M5]

I'm on my second E34 M5 - both 3.8's. They're truly wonderful beasts, and it never fails to put a smile on my face when I climb behind the wheel after a week or two in the company focus.

I do around 10,000 - 12,000 a year as I work away from home and don't get to use it as much as I'd like but after 4 years of having had an E34 M5, I can't see any reason to change.

Major components tend to be pricey;
As noted aboce EDC/Nurburgring Suspension - in the region of 600 - 700 fitted (my car is at 136,000 and I've no receipts in the folder for replacement shocks so at some stage relatively soon my wife & bank manager are going to hate me!
A new engine from BMW will be around 9k (supplied not fitted), so treat it with respect. The gear box is about half that I believe.

If you want one take your time and buy the best you can from a known enthusiast or reputable independant. I'd always go for an honest looking car with complete history over one that might have been tarted up to hide more serious complaints.

Buy a good'un and you'll not regret it.

[granville]

Munich Legends have (or at least had until recently) a stunning 3.8 version with 60k miles on it, some kind of vino flavoured red, magnifico.

[Ashok]

Lots of useful info to be found here:

www.m5board.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=4

[mmm-five]

derestrictor said:

Munich Legends have (or at least had until recently) a stunning 3.8 version with 60k miles on it, some kind of vino flavoured red, magnifico.

Yes, the Rosso Red one - but you'd get much better 'value' almost anywhere else.

[R988]

off_again said:

Only one thing though - the power is quite top-ended and might not seem that quick.

In that case sir might be interested in the E34 540i, just as quick as the M5 in the real world due to all that low end torque, with more power easily available, the only problem is the manual ones are even rarer than M5s so prising one from the cold clammy hands of an owner is no easy task

[dannylayne]

I had a 3.8 E34 - I screwed up and bought it too quickly (excitement!), so it wasn't quite as I would have wanted. Still, I had one drive in it - flat out on my local backroads, in the dark and rain, engine screaming, tyres sliding. I couldn't believe that a car that size could handle like that, god knows what it can do in the hands of a skilled driver.

I really miss it, nothing else has an idle as mean sounding as that 3.8... and I often type www.munichlegends.co.uk into my web browser just in case!

[silverback mike]

I went from an E39 540 to a 3.6 E34 M5. I may be committing heresy here and have my stake ready to be bound to, but I felt it a little underwhelming, and to be blunt it didn't really do it for me. Mine had a lot of miles (130k) but did have a full bmw history so mechanically was ok, and it certainly wasn't a baggy one.

I thought at the time that it was obvious how things had moved on, and as long as I didn't think to myself it was the fastest thing on the road, it was a good car though, but I wasn't as enamoured as I thought I would be. I actually preferred the later model 540....