Warranty Story - worth thinking about
Discussion
Hi all,
I bought my E39 M5 this year - 4 months ago... FBMWSH, just had an Insp II. I paid top dollar for a car I felt was mechanically bomb proof AND had a manufacturers warranty for 9 months. Last trip to the dealer shows noisy Vanos gearing - oh dear. So I booked it in for an inspection, and sure enough, VANOS needs replacing - car has covered 57K. Its being done this week at Cooper Cobham.
Here is the important bit >>> The bill >>> £7,500
I pay >>> £0
Makes you think... would you risk it?
Thanks
Richard
I bought my E39 M5 this year - 4 months ago... FBMWSH, just had an Insp II. I paid top dollar for a car I felt was mechanically bomb proof AND had a manufacturers warranty for 9 months. Last trip to the dealer shows noisy Vanos gearing - oh dear. So I booked it in for an inspection, and sure enough, VANOS needs replacing - car has covered 57K. Its being done this week at Cooper Cobham.
Here is the important bit >>> The bill >>> £7,500
I pay >>> £0
Makes you think... would you risk it?
Thanks
Richard
It's been mentioned on here before I'm sure but BMW Car Club are offering members third-party warranties (with Warranty Direct) which are considerably cheaper than BMW's own extended warranty (for M and Alpina cars anyhow) for seemingly equal levels of cover. Can't remember the figures but it's something like £300-500 cheaper. There's some detail in this month's BMWCC mag but it's downstairs at the moment - I'll grab it later and edit this post if there are any more facts and figures in the article.
I'll certainly be going with them once my CSL warranty runs out at the end of this year unless BMW UK stop playing silly buggers with their warranty costs. Rumor has it that the warranty situation will be "reviewed" by BMW in Feb 2007. What the outcome of such a review is probably predictable but you never know.
I'll certainly be going with them once my CSL warranty runs out at the end of this year unless BMW UK stop playing silly buggers with their warranty costs. Rumor has it that the warranty situation will be "reviewed" by BMW in Feb 2007. What the outcome of such a review is probably predictable but you never know.
The Dude said:
It's been mentioned on here before I'm sure but BMW Car Club are offering members third-party warranties (with Warranty Direct) which are considerably cheaper than BMW's own extended warranty (for M and Alpina cars anyhow) for seemingly equal levels of cover. Can't remember the figures but it's something like £300-500 cheaper.
It is Warranty Direct and it is £500. I used to have one and I can honestly say it wasn't worth the paper it was written on. They will only let you use garages with a low labour rate (something like £35 per hour, which excludes many of the good specialists), they only cover you after something has gone wrong, rather than when something is on its way out, the list of items covered can be counted on your fingers and they use the old 'wear and tear' exclusion at every opportunity. To get money out of them you either have to be very lucky or involve a solicitor. I didn't bother renewing, preferring to put the £500 in a savings account ready for when something went wrong.
dick dastardly said:
The Dude said:
It's been mentioned on here before I'm sure but BMW Car Club are offering members third-party warranties (with Warranty Direct) which are considerably cheaper than BMW's own extended warranty (for M and Alpina cars anyhow) for seemingly equal levels of cover. Can't remember the figures but it's something like £300-500 cheaper.
It is Warranty Direct and it is £500. I used to have one and I can honestly say it wasn't worth the paper it was written on. They will only let you use garages with a low labour rate (something like £35 per hour, which excludes many of the good specialists), they only cover you after something has gone wrong, rather than when something is on its way out, the list of items covered can be counted on your fingers and they use the old 'wear and tear' exclusion at every opportunity. To get money out of them you either have to be very lucky or involve a solicitor. I didn't bother renewing, preferring to put the £500 in a savings account ready for when something went wrong.
I had heard bad stuff about Warranty Direct before and was surprised to learn of BMWCC getting in bed with them, so to speak.
But for the life of me I can't imagine the club offering them if they are that bad - obviously that could be quite naive of me. Has anyone seen the specific warranty they are offering for M cars?
khushy said:
Buying an M5 WITHOUT a BMW Warranty is COMPLETE MADNESS!!!
hello I bought an M5 without a warranty. Just know what you're buying and that its past the vanos dodgy era, and the carbon build up dodgy era. But BMW arn't a charity. The price you pay for warranty is covering them for repair, so its like any other warrenty, and I can understand people who want them, but its not madness not to have one, just more hassle and a risk. But so long as its factered in no problem.
P.S. as a slight aside my wife has a 1995 BMW328 touring which had a nikasil problem. The car had done 104000 miles and had not had a BMW service inthe last three years. BMW still replaced the block free of charge despite the fact it didn't even have a warranty.
Moral to this story is that warranty or not BMW still have to admit known faults with a car as part of their use intended as a seller. I suggest to you that vanos and nikasil are very similar in that respect even if BMW need pushing to admit it.
mondeoman said:
Nope - independents can (allegedly) do it for a lot less, so I'll save my £2k thank you Mr BMW and pass my trade to someone who wnats it, not someone who wants to dip their hand into my wallet at any given opportunity.
Ta.
Ta.
Yep you are right - indies are getting in on the act now and can do it for over half the price. Its not the same thing, but I have heard about M3's with a VANOS rebuild getting sorted at indies for £2000 ish. Obviously the M5 has two more cylinders and the VANOS is a bit more complex (I think). So its perfectly possible to get a better deal than a main dealer.
Lets think about this for a minute - obviously the BMW dealer will not exaggerate the hours required to do the fix are they? Its just like the insurance industry repair scam too. They stick a couple of hours here, fix a couple of other things and build the numbers up... oh, and at the full rate too. I suspect there is a limit to the total warranty claim and wouldnt it be really funny to find out what the average claim is..... of course it wouldnt be close to the limit would it????
Did it really cost £7500 to rebuild the VANOS? Probably not, but thats what the dealer has submitted to BMW UK to pay out. I imagine one of the internal reasons why BMW UK put the limit on the warranty was to keep the costs reasonable - after abuse by dealers.
khushy said:
Buying an M5 WITHOUT a BMW Warranty is COMPLETE MADNESS!!!
Khushy, can you please explain this thought process to me as I honestly don't get it.
Surely 2k to insure the possible 7k cost of a replacement VANOS is the madness
Would anyone in their right mind pay a 10k premium per year to insure for example the contents of their home to the level of 35k? Personally, I think I would bank the 10k premium and made sure it was easily available incase the worst happened. After a few years of calculated risk I'm sure I would be better off than shelling out for the hugely overpriced insurance policy.
A Porsche warranty at 750 pounds is value, but 2k + 250 excess is bloody ridiculous surely?
Edited by allgonepetetong on Monday 18th September 09:11
The whole issue with M-car warranties has got stupid!!
As said before on this thread - paying £2k to insure against £7k repair is madness!!
I think the dealers (stealers???) are getting away with daylight robbery! Remember that the dealer doing a warranty repair is likely to overclaim the time taken(and therefore cost)to do the job - warranty repairs are just like any other service job and the dealership want to maximise their profit!! The fact that the cost of warranty repair is not directly paid by the customer encourages this overcharging situation (unfortunately this cost does return later when you pay for the warranty). At my last service on my M3, I required a new side repeater lamp replacement under warranty due to condensation. I was told that I could not simply have the part supplied and the car would have to be booked in separately to do the work??? When I arrived for the appointment the dealer took 1 1/2 hours to fit the repeater lamp (should have taken 2 mins) and I bet BMW warranty got a claim for the repair for the 1 1/2 hrs labour. All for a part which probably costs £10!! Make what you will of that!
As for Vanos woes - how many of the issues relating to these could be attributed to poor servicing standards in the dealerships, an over-reliance on the service interval indicator to tell the owner when to service the car, and owners not being mechanically sympathetic to the car when the engine is cold - especially with the M models. I will not be renewing the M-warranty when the factory warranty runs out on my car in March next year, as I know the history of my car better than any dealer ever will, and I prefer to use preventative maintenance and change the oil in my M3 at 6000 mile intervals myself.
For the owners out there that keep putting money into BMW's pockets for warranties - you lot are perpetuating the rip-off system, and it will only change if all BMW owners refused point blank to renew under such ridiculous terms.
My tips for M-car ownership are : 1. Always warm the engine properly before working it hard 2. Do your own oil change in between dealer visits (Even at £55 for 4.5litres the TWS 10W60 oil is cheap maintenance) 3. Tell the dealer to stick that ridiculous warranty where the sun don't shine and to only bother calling you when it has returned to a more reasonable level (Better still tell him you won't be buying another BMW until the situation changes - that would make them sit up and think). The M cars are great fun to own and drive and are a lot of engineering excellence for the money - don't let a lousy dealer spoil what can be a very fulfilling ownership experience.
As said before on this thread - paying £2k to insure against £7k repair is madness!!
I think the dealers (stealers???) are getting away with daylight robbery! Remember that the dealer doing a warranty repair is likely to overclaim the time taken(and therefore cost)to do the job - warranty repairs are just like any other service job and the dealership want to maximise their profit!! The fact that the cost of warranty repair is not directly paid by the customer encourages this overcharging situation (unfortunately this cost does return later when you pay for the warranty). At my last service on my M3, I required a new side repeater lamp replacement under warranty due to condensation. I was told that I could not simply have the part supplied and the car would have to be booked in separately to do the work??? When I arrived for the appointment the dealer took 1 1/2 hours to fit the repeater lamp (should have taken 2 mins) and I bet BMW warranty got a claim for the repair for the 1 1/2 hrs labour. All for a part which probably costs £10!! Make what you will of that!
As for Vanos woes - how many of the issues relating to these could be attributed to poor servicing standards in the dealerships, an over-reliance on the service interval indicator to tell the owner when to service the car, and owners not being mechanically sympathetic to the car when the engine is cold - especially with the M models. I will not be renewing the M-warranty when the factory warranty runs out on my car in March next year, as I know the history of my car better than any dealer ever will, and I prefer to use preventative maintenance and change the oil in my M3 at 6000 mile intervals myself.
For the owners out there that keep putting money into BMW's pockets for warranties - you lot are perpetuating the rip-off system, and it will only change if all BMW owners refused point blank to renew under such ridiculous terms.
My tips for M-car ownership are : 1. Always warm the engine properly before working it hard 2. Do your own oil change in between dealer visits (Even at £55 for 4.5litres the TWS 10W60 oil is cheap maintenance) 3. Tell the dealer to stick that ridiculous warranty where the sun don't shine and to only bother calling you when it has returned to a more reasonable level (Better still tell him you won't be buying another BMW until the situation changes - that would make them sit up and think). The M cars are great fun to own and drive and are a lot of engineering excellence for the money - don't let a lousy dealer spoil what can be a very fulfilling ownership experience.
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