Z4M Coupe vs Cayman
Discussion
Just found this www.motortrend.com/multimedia/animations/112_0608_bmw_z4_vs_porsche_cayman_s/
But it wont run on a Mac! Can some one with a PC run it and tell me the results.....
But it wont run on a Mac! Can some one with a PC run it and tell me the results.....
On the performance front, along Brunters 2-mile straight I got the Cayman to an indicated 150mph and it was slowly adding digits before I ran out of runway. 155mph may have been possible with a good wind. The Z4M Coupe was pulling 170mph before I backed off (due to a little wandering over the crest), the Alpina was also noticeably quicker than the Cayman reaching over 170mph. As usual the Cayman felt languid until well up the rev range (once variocam kicked in) and was destroyed for bottom end pick-up by the identical capacity (3.4 litre) Alpina. There's no getting away from the Cayman's lack of grunt, but it acquitted itself better by being very easy to provoke and very friendly when pushed beyond its limits.
Quick summary; the Z4M Coupe was faster, more exciting and felt equally as competent in the corners. It would be foolhardy to suggest one handled better than another, they just behaved differently and will suit certain drivers who prefer the way one drives over the other.
The shock news was that the brakes on the Z4M Coupe felt stronger than those on the Cayman. I wasn't expecting that at all.
Quick summary; the Z4M Coupe was faster, more exciting and felt equally as competent in the corners. It would be foolhardy to suggest one handled better than another, they just behaved differently and will suit certain drivers who prefer the way one drives over the other.
The shock news was that the brakes on the Z4M Coupe felt stronger than those on the Cayman. I wasn't expecting that at all.
Edited by DoctorD on Tuesday 11th July 22:40
Most M models will reach a true 165mph before the limiter actually stops the fun (that was certainly the case with the E46 M3). This usually means a reading on the Speedometer of between 170 and 180 mph. This is different IIRC to non-M models that are limited more closely to the agreed 155mph point.
The Alpina Roadster has no limiter, hence will pull all the way to a true 170+ mph.
The Alpina Roadster has no limiter, hence will pull all the way to a true 170+ mph.
DoctorD said:
On the performance front, along Brunters 2-mile straight I got the Cayman to an indicated 150mph and it was slowly adding digits before I ran out of runway. 155mph may have been possible with a good wind. The Z4M Coupe was pulling 170mph before I backed off (due to a little wandering over the crest), the Alpina was also noticeably quicker than the Cayman reaching over 170mph. As usual the Cayman felt languid until well up the rev range (once variocam kicked in) and was destroyed for bottom end pick-up by the identical capacity (3.4 litre) Alpina. There's no getting away from the Cayman's lack of grunt, but it acquitted itself better by being very easy to provoke and very friendly when pushed beyond its limits.
Quick summary; the Z4M Coupe was faster, more exciting and felt equally as competent in the corners. It would be foolhardy to suggest one handled better than another, they just behaved differently and will suit certain drivers who prefer the way one drives over the other.
The shock news was that the brakes on the Z4M Coupe felt stronger than those on the Cayman. I wasn't expecting that at all.
Quick summary; the Z4M Coupe was faster, more exciting and felt equally as competent in the corners. It would be foolhardy to suggest one handled better than another, they just behaved differently and will suit certain drivers who prefer the way one drives over the other.
The shock news was that the brakes on the Z4M Coupe felt stronger than those on the Cayman. I wasn't expecting that at all.
Edited by DoctorD on Tuesday 11th July 22:40
Interesting! I've not driven the M Coupe, but have piloted an M roadster round Brunters and was frankly disappointed by the performance - after 130mph there was very little left and we recorded a lasered 152mph through the traps; it did feel very strong off the line, but in the name of fairness airfields tend to make most cars feel slow! Wonderful drift machine though, as BMW's typically are - there's a vid on PHTV of my exploits, the car really flatters the driver!
But without provoking oversteer (easy on an airfield, a tad more challenging on the road) its all to easy to wash into understeer if you've gone in a little too quickly - by comparison a Cayman S (which I've only driven on the road) felt much more responsive on the limit and you always have options over your angle of attack. It is however much less forgiving, more of a precision tool - satisfying for some, irritating to others - the BMW is certainly the sideways hooligans choice if not the racers preference. I never really had a problem with the Caymans lack of grunt, although I acknowledge it certainly needs all of its 6 speeds stirring constantly to keep it on the boil (its a shame the change itself is a little oily and imprecise when pressed) but once committed I think a Cayman S has just about the right amount of grunt for a road car (although I'd love to see the Chapman maxim of 'added lightness' applied) and consequently there's just enough performance. The handling left me slightly underwhelmed though - there was almost an excess of competence, whereby every response was technically excellent but emotionally dry - I was still left respecting the machine rather than loving it.
By comparison the BMW is flawed but simply seems to have more 'character'. To a degree this is because you have to interact with it more to get the best out of it - if too fast into a corner the Cayman will react to a gentle lift and continue to carry great corner speed, whereas the BMW will punish with understeer which can only really be cancelled using throttle on low speed or low grip corners; beyond that your option is 'slow down'!
I cant wait to try the M Coupe though, as every test I've read suggests that the Coupe is much more of a drivers car due not only to its 50% increase in torsional rigidity but also because BMW decided to make it that way! Cool!
So, in summary (and getting back to the subject title!) I'd say that IMHO technically the Cayman is the better handling car, but it nonetheless left me feeling a bit cold, somewhat ambivalent towards it. Impressed by its ability, but emotional stable. The M pi55ed me off on occasion with its natural understeering balance (and its consequent numb steering in this state) but was highly receptive to being tipped into oversteer and kept there on the throttle - basically the biggest grin was painted by this hooliganist attitude to driving. Need the fastest lap?: take the Cayman. Want to have the most fun?: M wins!
DoctorD said:
Most M models will reach a true 165mph before the limiter actually stops the fun (that was certainly the case with the E46 M3). This usually means a reading on the Speedometer of between 170 and 180 mph. This is different IIRC to non-M models that are limited more closely to the agreed 155mph point.
The Alpina Roadster has no limiter, hence will pull all the way to a true 170+ mph.
The Alpina Roadster has no limiter, hence will pull all the way to a true 170+ mph.
The one and only time I've ever tried in ernest to discover where the 155mph limiter truly chimes in was at the helm of a V10 M5 on 'one of those roads' where you know you can. I quit before the 'limiter' when 172mph flicked up on the HUD unabaited... by god the M5 is one hell of a fast car 
Edited by trackdemon on Thursday 13th July 00:05
trackdemon said:
By comparison the BMW is flawed but simply seems to have more 'character'. To a degree this is because you have to interact with it more to get the best out of it - if too fast into a corner the Cayman will react to a gentle lift and continue to carry great corner speed, whereas the BMW will punish with understeer which can only really be cancelled using throttle on low speed or low grip corners; beyond that your option is 'slow down'!
I cant wait to try the M Coupe though, as every test I've read suggests that the Coupe is much more of a drivers car due not only to its 50% increase in torsional rigidity but also because BMW decided to make it that way! Cool!
I cant wait to try the M Coupe though, as every test I've read suggests that the Coupe is much more of a drivers car due not only to its 50% increase in torsional rigidity but also because BMW decided to make it that way! Cool!
Well said. You will find that the Coupe removes that understeer you found in the Roadster, provides better steering feedback and is more controllable when you 'lean' on the chassis. The Cayman is still the more 'unflustered' and feels far more 'sensible' than the Z4M Coupe.
Both would be desirable cars to own depending on your preferences, but if I had to choose only one car to own then the Cayman would probably nudge ahead, but if it was a second car to contrast with a more humdrum daily driver then it would be Z4M Coupe every time. The Cayman feels a little too safe and sensible for that kind of role.
Edited by DoctorD on Thursday 13th July 12:26
It's a shame you can't drive them both back to back. The Cayman will feel the more instantly 'comfortable' and driveable, the throttle and steering response are a little soft but on the road it will feel near perfectly set-up. The Z4M Coupe looks more aggresive and purposeful when seen side-by-side with the Cayman, but will feel more intimate (some might feel cramped) and more flawed in terms of visibility out of the rear-screen. Also the steering will probably feel slightly too quick and the brakes are a little grabby. So the Cayman will feel more naturally flowing to drive. However up the pace and dig deep for entertainment and the Z4M Coupe lifts its game higher. The Cayman just remains composed but not measurably more exiting. The Cayman also feels the more grown up car and probably better if you seek the image of the Porsche and its perceived status.
Let us know what you think though.
Let us know what you think though.
Rob, have you actually seen a Z4M Coupe driving towards you? They somehow look quite different (and more impressive) than the photos. There's something about the Z4 shape and many of Bangle's latest creations that makes them crap to photograph, so when you take a proper look at them they appear much better. The 6-series seems to follow a similar theme, they look poor in photos, slightly better up close in the metal and a whole lot beter once they're moving on the road (but still not great!).
The Z4Coupe M looks crouched and cat like when you see it moving towards you, quite aggressive too, whereas none of that comes across in pictures.
The Cayman by comparison always seems to look better in pictures, and I only notice the awkward rear end when I see one up close. The M3, as one of the last great BMW designs looks good in either pictures or up-close, but I suspect it has something to do with its more rounded and predictable lines.
The Z4Coupe M looks crouched and cat like when you see it moving towards you, quite aggressive too, whereas none of that comes across in pictures.
The Cayman by comparison always seems to look better in pictures, and I only notice the awkward rear end when I see one up close. The M3, as one of the last great BMW designs looks good in either pictures or up-close, but I suspect it has something to do with its more rounded and predictable lines.
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