Tragic Test Drive Accident
Discussion
Passage below from the local Coventry Paper ........
Two killed as car hits tree during test drive
Jan 23 2006
Two passengers have died after a car taken for a test drive from racing driver Damon Hill's BMW Warwickshire showroom crashed.
The pair, a 34-year-old man and a 29-year-old woman, were killed when the £14,500 new blue Mini Cooper left the road and hit a tree.
The car had been borrowed from the Warwick showroom by their friend, from Stratford, who was driving towards Leamington when the crash happened.
The driver, who has not yet been named by police, was taken to Northampton General Hospital. He was said to be in a serious condition on Friday night.
The two passengers were both from Epsom, in Surrey.
Police said the crash, which happened on Sunday last week on the A425 in Staverton, Northamptonshire, was being investigated but was being treated as an accident.
Andy Clements, general sales manager at the showroom in Heathcote Lane, Warwick, which is partly owned by former Formula One champion Damon Hill, said the car was new and in perfect condition when it left the showroom.
He said the driver had insured the vehicle for the test drive, had brought in the required documents, and was shown how all the controls worked.
Mr Clements said: "It is tragic but obviously from our point of view, the precautions that we take as a company are quite strict."
A Northamptonshire Police spokesman said: "No other vehicle was involved in the incident. We can confirm that we are investigating and we are appealing for witnesses and for people who saw the Mini prior to the accident to come forward."
Two killed as car hits tree during test drive
Jan 23 2006
Two passengers have died after a car taken for a test drive from racing driver Damon Hill's BMW Warwickshire showroom crashed.
The pair, a 34-year-old man and a 29-year-old woman, were killed when the £14,500 new blue Mini Cooper left the road and hit a tree.
The car had been borrowed from the Warwick showroom by their friend, from Stratford, who was driving towards Leamington when the crash happened.
The driver, who has not yet been named by police, was taken to Northampton General Hospital. He was said to be in a serious condition on Friday night.
The two passengers were both from Epsom, in Surrey.
Police said the crash, which happened on Sunday last week on the A425 in Staverton, Northamptonshire, was being investigated but was being treated as an accident.
Andy Clements, general sales manager at the showroom in Heathcote Lane, Warwick, which is partly owned by former Formula One champion Damon Hill, said the car was new and in perfect condition when it left the showroom.
He said the driver had insured the vehicle for the test drive, had brought in the required documents, and was shown how all the controls worked.
Mr Clements said: "It is tragic but obviously from our point of view, the precautions that we take as a company are quite strict."
A Northamptonshire Police spokesman said: "No other vehicle was involved in the incident. We can confirm that we are investigating and we are appealing for witnesses and for people who saw the Mini prior to the accident to come forward."
From what I have been told, The 2 people that were killed where the 2 buying the Mini.
The younger lad who was driving was a friend who lived locally and met up with them at the dealership to help/advise them. The Mini that the lady was going to by was there demo which is the car that crashed!!
Can't coment on what was/is to blame but that poor lad will have to live with it for the rest of his day's...
The amount of 'close calls' I have had with some so called expert 'putting a car through its paces' is a scary thought and after this, I will be alot firmer in telling them to stop.
The younger lad who was driving was a friend who lived locally and met up with them at the dealership to help/advise them. The Mini that the lady was going to by was there demo which is the car that crashed!!
Can't coment on what was/is to blame but that poor lad will have to live with it for the rest of his day's...
The amount of 'close calls' I have had with some so called expert 'putting a car through its paces' is a scary thought and after this, I will be alot firmer in telling them to stop.
The Salesman I bought my first Tuscan from was tragically killed whilst travelling as a Passenger in a Tuscan being test-driven last year.
Obviously I can't comment on the specifics in either incident as both are still under investigation.
The previous point raised regarding an "expert" putting a car through it's paces is certainly valid. I'll wager that we have all seen a person jump into a car with traits that are totally unknown to them and as the engine starts the red-mist takes over.
Personally I find it incredible that a person can pass a test in a 1.0L Corsa and is the able to drive any type of car with infinite power.
I reiterate that my personal comment may have no relevance to these incidents, but I do believe that limits should be set on what people can drive on a basic license with a more advanced qualification required for more powerful cars.
Obviously I can't comment on the specifics in either incident as both are still under investigation.
The previous point raised regarding an "expert" putting a car through it's paces is certainly valid. I'll wager that we have all seen a person jump into a car with traits that are totally unknown to them and as the engine starts the red-mist takes over.
Personally I find it incredible that a person can pass a test in a 1.0L Corsa and is the able to drive any type of car with infinite power.
I reiterate that my personal comment may have no relevance to these incidents, but I do believe that limits should be set on what people can drive on a basic license with a more advanced qualification required for more powerful cars.
I think before we start posting about limits to be set on drivers and power of cars you might want to find out more about this crash.
The mini is a deceptively difficult car to drive, it hangs on till the last moment and its very difficult to catch the spin. No fault of the car its just small wheel base good traction car.
Even so I think it would be difficult to crash this car on a tentative test drive. If the guy was 'putting it through its paces' meaning exploring the envelope in an unsafe environment or had a sudden mechanical failure of some sort, I fail to see how that relates to all drivers.
The mini is a deceptively difficult car to drive, it hangs on till the last moment and its very difficult to catch the spin. No fault of the car its just small wheel base good traction car.
Even so I think it would be difficult to crash this car on a tentative test drive. If the guy was 'putting it through its paces' meaning exploring the envelope in an unsafe environment or had a sudden mechanical failure of some sort, I fail to see how that relates to all drivers.
Julian64 said:
The mini is a deceptively difficult car to drive, it hangs on till the last moment and its very difficult to catch the spin. No fault of the car its just small wheel base good traction car.
Is it? I've got 52,000 miles on my Mini One now, and driven the Cooper (standard spec wheels and tyres) as well as the Cooper S Works (17" wheel package w/those runflats, LSD not available back then) extensively (>1,000 miles on each) before. On all af them, traction seemed to be the main limitation and compared to the French (definitely non-hot
) hatches I've run before (not to mention my road/track Saab on Trampios) there's not much lift-oversteer to play with either. Whenever I drive my humble 90 bhp One in a 'spirited fashion', excessive hamfistedness merely results in the fronts start scrubbing off speed rather early, and in a One/Cooper you have to wait a rather long time to build up enough momentum again to be in 'danger territory'! 
In short, I'd say any modern TDI hatch would be a more lethal weapon in the wrong hands than a naturally aspirated MINI... I'd always thought something like my MINI would be the ideal car for a young novice driver - so should I reconsider that motion?
>> Edited by 900T-R on Thursday 26th January 09:40
The Mini is a more difficult car to drive than many people realise. It's set-up with quite a neutral balance, so lift-off oversteer is present provided you load up the front axle enough. I own a Mini Cooper S Works with 210bhp and it's great fun to oversteer it around corners and roundabouts if in the mood. It is also possible to set it up into a 4 wheel drift with the minimum of prompting and I've often remarked that this is a car that would be very dangerous in inexperienced hands.
I'm not commenting in any way on this terrible incident, but the Mini (in it's more powerful versions) is a car that requires a good driver and is not as idiot proof as some other small cars out there.
Having said that, it's worth taking the time with any unfamiliar car to learn its nuances before pressing on. Perhaps too many drivers these days have not experienced the kind of edgy handling that many of us grew up with, and are too cosseted by ESP stability control systems and ABS brakes to properly understand the dynamics of the cars they drive.
I'm not commenting in any way on this terrible incident, but the Mini (in it's more powerful versions) is a car that requires a good driver and is not as idiot proof as some other small cars out there.
Having said that, it's worth taking the time with any unfamiliar car to learn its nuances before pressing on. Perhaps too many drivers these days have not experienced the kind of edgy handling that many of us grew up with, and are too cosseted by ESP stability control systems and ABS brakes to properly understand the dynamics of the cars they drive.
DoctorD said:
The Mini is a more difficult car to drive than many people realise. It's set-up with quite a neutral balance, so lift-off oversteer is present provided you load up the front axle enough.
Hmmm. All a matter of perspective I guess. Compared to my other (FWD) car, I find the MINI - in every guise I've driven - a bit understeery (particularly in the damp) and relatively inert...
<makes mental note never to lend the Saab to erm, less than experienced drivers>
>> Edited by 900T-R on Thursday 26th January 12:17
The point is that the Mini will go from understeer to oversteer in hairs-breath if you lift off under load in a corner. Not as easily as a 205GTi, but it will certainly do so. I've driven Mini One, Mini Cooper and have owned a standard Mini Cooper S and Mini Cooper S Works. I've noticed how relatively intert the Mini One and Cooper feel compared to the supercharged models, and it's very hard to provoke a One to do anything much (although use of the handbrake will help).
My concern in general is how many drivers have become over reliant on driver aids and wouldn't understand the dynamics of why a short, relatively firmly damped hatchback would do anything other than understeer.
My concern in general is how many drivers have become over reliant on driver aids and wouldn't understand the dynamics of why a short, relatively firmly damped hatchback would do anything other than understeer.
Interesting 900TR, you obviously have a lot of experience with the mark.
Lets just put it this way, I would be (am) much more comfortable with a few more hundred bhp in a car on a racetrack if it just had the extra length on the wheelbase, but I suppose its just what you get used to.
I found the new mini rather unnerving to drive, and I used to race hillman imps!!
Lets just put it this way, I would be (am) much more comfortable with a few more hundred bhp in a car on a racetrack if it just had the extra length on the wheelbase, but I suppose its just what you get used to.
I found the new mini rather unnerving to drive, and I used to race hillman imps!!
The first time my dad handed me the keys to the Cerbera I was anxious about whether I would be safe driving it. It was a well sorted example, as you would expect and at the time I drove a 39bhp Cinquecento, so let's say 10x the power and about 25% more weight. He said one thing to me that rings true to this day "...It's only as fast as you drive it..."
Let's see what the outcome is before we start to apportion any blame, else it's unfair. I had a good friend of mine die in a car crash. She hit a wall at under 20mph after aquaplaning in apallingly bad weather with torrential rain. She hit the wall side-on though and even though the car didn't look too badly damaged at all, it was enough to kill her.
Let's see what the outcome is before we start to apportion any blame, else it's unfair. I had a good friend of mine die in a car crash. She hit a wall at under 20mph after aquaplaning in apallingly bad weather with torrential rain. She hit the wall side-on though and even though the car didn't look too badly damaged at all, it was enough to kill her.
Gassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff