Discussion
Does anyone know what CSL's actually dyno at? I've always been told that Bavarian Horses are much stronger than most, as seen by the fact that most GT3s are 390+ bhp when quoted as 381, and the fact that my CSL managed to hit 170mph at VMAX in the summer. If anyone's actually managed to get round the rev limiter at standstill and dyno the car i'd love to know the results.
Cheers
Billy
Cheers
Billy
Yep, prior to racing a CSL in the Britcar series a friend of mine took his engine out and tested it on an engine dyno using a Motec ECU and a relatively unimpeded exhaust system. It pulled something between 370 and 380 bhp on the dyno. By the way, I understand that the regular M3 engine develops somewhat less than the claimed 338 bhp so the difference between CSL and M3 engines is likely to be closer to 30-40bhp in practice.
p.s. you might be interested to know that I've seen an indicated 195mph (or 7400 rpm in 6th) in my factory unrestricted CSL, which probably equates to a true mid 180s.
p.s. you might be interested to know that I've seen an indicated 195mph (or 7400 rpm in 6th) in my factory unrestricted CSL, which probably equates to a true mid 180s.
That's seriously fast!! I thought 170mph was pretty impressive. Do you think with enough space it could hit 190mph? Plus how did the car feel at 185mph? At 170mph the car felt very well planted. Thanks for the feedback mate, i've always thought the CSL punches harder that 360bhp and now i know!
A veritable GT3 eater then...
A veritable GT3 eater then...
s3am said:
A veritable GT3 eater then...
don't make me!
Sam, I used to own a GT3 myself and have spent lots of time on track with the GT3 Titanic boys.
Billy, I reached this speed on the autobahn just north of Koln. I reached the rev-limiter in 5th gear at around 175-180mph (indicated) and then changed to 6th when it carried on climbing and added another 800rpm. The engine still felt strong and with a little more to come. My CSL runs with racing kats (100 cell) and a straight through centre pipe exhaust so it probabaly produced around 10bhp more than standard.
At 185mph it felt truly planted, no wandering or any undue body movement. It was truly planted I could feel the aero downforce doing its job. My main worry at that speed was how quickly we were passing other cars on the inside lanes, many of whom were doing well over 100mph themselves. I can't honestly say I would ever do it again, I much prefer to max a car on track than in a straight line, but since I'd gone to all the trouble of ordering an unrestricted CSL I had to try, didn't I?
>> Edited by doctorD on Wednesday 14th December 20:32
Some figures from Sport Auto to give the doubters food for thought:
Nordschleife:
7.47min ( GT3 RS )
7.54min ( GT3 )
7:46min ( GT2 )
7:56min ( 360 CS )
7:50min ( M3 CLS )
Hockenheim:
1.11,8min
1.13,2min
1:12,6min
1:13,0min
1:13,5min
0-60mph:
4.2sec
4.6sec
~4sec
4.4sec
4.8 sec
0-125mph:
13.5sec
14.8sec
12.4sec
15.5sec
16.7sec
max. lateral accerelation:
1.3g
1.25g
1.35g
1.3g
1.4g
aerodynamics:
front:-19kg, rear: +25kg
-13kg, 0kg
+2.2kg +7.5kg
+10kg -21kg
-1kg -10kg
max. speed at NS ( Döttinger Höhe ):
173.91mph ( 280kmh)
168.95mph ( 272kmh )
176.4mph ( 284kmh )
168.32mph ( 271kmh )
158.6 mph ( 255kmh
max. deceleration: ( PCCB´s )
12.8 m/s^2
9.3 m/s^2
10.7 m/s^2
11 m/s^2
11.9 ms^2
slalom 36m:
83.2mph ( 134kmh )
80.75mph ( 130kmh )
79.5mph (128kmh )
80.75mph ( 130kmh )
83.9mph ( 135knh )
switching over lane ( 110m ):
93.17mph ( 150kmh )
92.55mph ( 149kmh )
95.65mph ( 154kmh )
88.2mph ( 142 kmh )
97.6mph ( 157kmh )
testing conditions:
(no info on RS)
air: 14°C, tarmac: 16°C, barometric pressure: 1021mbar
air: 16°C, tarmac: 18°C, barometric pressure: 1011mbar
air: 19°C, tarmac: 17°C, barometric pressure: 1014mbar
air: 26°C, tarmac 34°C, barometric pressure:
1022mbar
result:
65 of 70 points ( GT3 RS )
59 of 70 points ( GT3 )
42 of 42 points ( they changed the points after the GT2 test to 70 )
59 of 70 points ( 360 CS )
64 of 70 for the BMW M3 CSL
Nordschleife:
7.47min ( GT3 RS )
7.54min ( GT3 )
7:46min ( GT2 )
7:56min ( 360 CS )
7:50min ( M3 CLS )
Hockenheim:
1.11,8min
1.13,2min
1:12,6min
1:13,0min
1:13,5min
0-60mph:
4.2sec
4.6sec
~4sec
4.4sec
4.8 sec
0-125mph:
13.5sec
14.8sec
12.4sec
15.5sec
16.7sec
max. lateral accerelation:
1.3g
1.25g
1.35g
1.3g
1.4g
aerodynamics:
front:-19kg, rear: +25kg
-13kg, 0kg
+2.2kg +7.5kg
+10kg -21kg
-1kg -10kg
max. speed at NS ( Döttinger Höhe ):
173.91mph ( 280kmh)
168.95mph ( 272kmh )
176.4mph ( 284kmh )
168.32mph ( 271kmh )
158.6 mph ( 255kmh
max. deceleration: ( PCCB´s )
12.8 m/s^2
9.3 m/s^2
10.7 m/s^2
11 m/s^2
11.9 ms^2
slalom 36m:
83.2mph ( 134kmh )
80.75mph ( 130kmh )
79.5mph (128kmh )
80.75mph ( 130kmh )
83.9mph ( 135knh )
switching over lane ( 110m ):
93.17mph ( 150kmh )
92.55mph ( 149kmh )
95.65mph ( 154kmh )
88.2mph ( 142 kmh )
97.6mph ( 157kmh )
testing conditions:
(no info on RS)
air: 14°C, tarmac: 16°C, barometric pressure: 1021mbar
air: 16°C, tarmac: 18°C, barometric pressure: 1011mbar
air: 19°C, tarmac: 17°C, barometric pressure: 1014mbar
air: 26°C, tarmac 34°C, barometric pressure:
1022mbar
result:
65 of 70 points ( GT3 RS )
59 of 70 points ( GT3 )
42 of 42 points ( they changed the points after the GT2 test to 70 )
59 of 70 points ( 360 CS )
64 of 70 for the BMW M3 CSL
Zod said:
A veritable GT3 eater then...
don't make me
I'm one of them
Big fan of the CSL, just having a little banter with my brother!s3am said:Yeah, I got on my high horse to defend my wonderful car and then your bro gave the game away.
A veritable GT3 eater then...
don't make me
I'm one of them
Sam concedes!
Thanks for those figures Zod, very interesting! Have to say tho that given the CSL is so close to the GT3 RS and comes in ahead of both the GT3 and Challenge Stradale, costs £20k and £70k less respectively than both cars and also has a decent boot and 4 seats for me it has to be the CSL. Plus its much less conspicuous than the GT3, only real car nuts will have heard of it, let alone be able to recognise one.
GT3 is an awesome car tho i have to admit! And you can have one with a manual gearbox.
Thanks for those figures Zod, very interesting! Have to say tho that given the CSL is so close to the GT3 RS and comes in ahead of both the GT3 and Challenge Stradale, costs £20k and £70k less respectively than both cars and also has a decent boot and 4 seats for me it has to be the CSL. Plus its much less conspicuous than the GT3, only real car nuts will have heard of it, let alone be able to recognise one.
GT3 is an awesome car tho i have to admit! And you can have one with a manual gearbox.
vixpy1 said:
Never done one, so don't know..
The BMW M cars are not renowned for being full of ponies though, expect the new M5, which is.. apparently
Agreed. The CSL does produce the ponies as advertised and clearly the new V10 engine does also, but perhaps some of the more mass produced M engines are more susceptible to how well they are run-in.
doctorD said:
Never done one, so don't know..
The BMW M cars are not renowned for being full of ponies though, expect the new M5, which is.. apparently
Agreed. The CSL does produce the ponies as advertised and clearly the new V10 engine does also, but perhaps some of the more mass produced M engines are more susceptible to how well they are run-in.
The E39 M5 seems to vary wildly..
Seen them put 360bhp out, 380bhp... and one with a newish engine do 402bhp
ferrari355gtb said:
Didn't the CSL take the 'best' M3 engines ? (or is it just an urban myth)
I didn't think so...I do know this was the case for the Porsche 964rs engines (the best regular 964 engines were taken)
only 360, 380 bhp in an M5? Could be but I know 1 thing for sure: they go like stink!!!
Friend of mine works for BMW BeLux and was able to see some of their self made videos at an //M test day. Head to head acceleration between M5e39 and M3e46..M5 was loaded with 4 people while the M3 only had the driver to carry...M5 drove away significantly from the M3.
So let's say 320 bhp for the M3 (they always lack bhp) and 370bhp for the M5...the M5's curb weight is already 200kg heavier and was loaded with 3 extra people...I think you need more than 50 bhp to beat the M3 then!!!
Besides, the S54 engine is far more at its limit for further development compared to the M5's engine (100bhp/litre compared to 80 bhp/litre)..so I'm convinced that all M5's are close to their 400 bhp
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