Did I undersell
Discussion
Put a 1991 850i BMW in the paper for 6.5K. Counted 22 phone calls on the first day of the advert before my wife insisted on leaving the phone off the hook 
. The second person to phone offered me the asking price, and although I was a bit sceptical about selling to someone who hadn't seen the car I could do nothing but agree. Sure enough they turned up with the cash, and away they went with my pride and joy. 
First two questions everyone asked when they phoned was. Is it really a manual, which was strange because thats what it said in the advert, and does it have a service history to which I said no.
So if anyone else out there has an 850 BMW that they're thinking of selling and its a manual, then sell it for more than 6.5K. It made me smile that the manual version seems to be carrying a premium as it was actually cheaper than the automatic when new.
. The second person to phone offered me the asking price, and although I was a bit sceptical about selling to someone who hadn't seen the car I could do nothing but agree. Sure enough they turned up with the cash, and away they went with my pride and joy. First two questions everyone asked when they phoned was. Is it really a manual, which was strange because thats what it said in the advert, and does it have a service history to which I said no.
So if anyone else out there has an 850 BMW that they're thinking of selling and its a manual, then sell it for more than 6.5K. It made me smile that the manual version seems to be carrying a premium as it was actually cheaper than the automatic when new.
From TimesOnline. http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,14141-14
At its launch in 1991 a top-spec 850i auto coupé would have cost £62,000. Today you can buy its successor, the 645Ci coupé, for less than £52,000. The trend is magnified in the used car market where the price of luxury motors has fallen through the floor. This means that you can pick up an early 8-series for just £6,000.
>> Edited by bigandclever on Monday 14th November 10:51
At its launch in 1991 a top-spec 850i auto coupé would have cost £62,000. Today you can buy its successor, the 645Ci coupé, for less than £52,000. The trend is magnified in the used car market where the price of luxury motors has fallen through the floor. This means that you can pick up an early 8-series for just £6,000.
>> Edited by bigandclever on Monday 14th November 10:51
Amazing isn't it. The 850 always looked good and contemporary in whatever company. And you could buy it for less than a brandnew smart.
I'd wager the car would go on far longer than a currently bought brand new smart.
Its an amazing slight on todays world that the publicists have the world convinced that the smart would be the one to buy.
I'd wager the car would go on far longer than a currently bought brand new smart.
Its an amazing slight on todays world that the publicists have the world convinced that the smart would be the one to buy.
Julian64 said:
Amazing isn't it. The 850 always looked good and contemporary in whatever company. And you could buy it for less than a brandnew smart.
I'd wager the car would go on far longer than a currently bought brand new smart.
Its an amazing slight on todays world that the publicists have the world convinced that the smart would be the one to buy.
The problem is, though, if you can only afford £6,000 to spend on a car, you would almost certainly be better off with a smart.. obviously there are notable exceptions but I wouldn't recommend an 8-series, especially one with a V12, to many people unless they were really into cars, unless I didn't like them!
It's still a great looking car though I agree. An 850CSi would be my ideal one
.. Russell
To answer 'volvo', no service history because I did it myself. Now that obviously devalues the car somewhat in other peoples eyes, but in reality I'm pretty well setup for doing my own servicing, I have more information on the car than any dealer I've ever taken the car to, and was fed up getting £1000 bills for work that didn't need doing or paying for work which wasn't done, and this was unfortunately from main dealers. The two people who looked at the car remarked that it was the only car they'd seen with everything working and it was also the first car they'd seen without a service history.
To answer 'pentoman', out of interest why would you not recommend the car. Co-incidently I would be completely the reverse of you and not recommend the CSI. Heres why.
The 850i was quite a simple design implimented in quite a perverse way. A bit concept car still. But was only two six cylinder engines bolted together with two different engine management systems. Two conventional six cylinder cars if you will. But if you knew about the standard six then the 850 was a reasonable to maintain car.
The CSI was an upped compression ratio and a enlarged cc. So a worse fuel economy for only another 80 bhp. The 850 could already outgun the later 840's and was the worlds best GT wafter, so not a lot of point. The CSI also had the added complexity of active kinematics suspension, and although the 8's engine and gearbox were bulletproof the kinematics were a known failure point on the CSI for no real benefit.
now if you really wanted the fastest 8, you wouldn't go for the CSI you would have gone back to the good old 850i. Dinnan did a two turbocharger conversion bolt on for the conservatively rated 8 which produced in xs of 500bhp!!
This conversion was not available for the CSI as its compression ratio was too high already for the dinan conversion so any CSI wanting this power would have to detune the head to 850 standard before turbos could be applied.
Any way I looked at it the originally designed 850 was the best car, the ones that came after were at best an attempt at keeping an 8 with some nod toward fuel economy, which was a terrible compromise, or the CSI version to try and make the 8 look like a nifty sports car which it obviously wasn't.
To answer 'pentoman', out of interest why would you not recommend the car. Co-incidently I would be completely the reverse of you and not recommend the CSI. Heres why.
The 850i was quite a simple design implimented in quite a perverse way. A bit concept car still. But was only two six cylinder engines bolted together with two different engine management systems. Two conventional six cylinder cars if you will. But if you knew about the standard six then the 850 was a reasonable to maintain car.
The CSI was an upped compression ratio and a enlarged cc. So a worse fuel economy for only another 80 bhp. The 850 could already outgun the later 840's and was the worlds best GT wafter, so not a lot of point. The CSI also had the added complexity of active kinematics suspension, and although the 8's engine and gearbox were bulletproof the kinematics were a known failure point on the CSI for no real benefit.
now if you really wanted the fastest 8, you wouldn't go for the CSI you would have gone back to the good old 850i. Dinnan did a two turbocharger conversion bolt on for the conservatively rated 8 which produced in xs of 500bhp!!
This conversion was not available for the CSI as its compression ratio was too high already for the dinan conversion so any CSI wanting this power would have to detune the head to 850 standard before turbos could be applied.
Any way I looked at it the originally designed 850 was the best car, the ones that came after were at best an attempt at keeping an 8 with some nod toward fuel economy, which was a terrible compromise, or the CSI version to try and make the 8 look like a nifty sports car which it obviously wasn't.
308GTB said:
I've always loved them but I think they are a brave choice.
Front suspension is main dealer only and £1000 for new dampers ....ouch!
Not they arn't. I changed one of these myself and it was easy peasy. completely normal damper and coil, plus not actually the problem I was having.
The dampers were only about £170 each about five years ago. You may be thinking about the 850CSI which had active suspension. Never tried one of those.
Julian64 said:
I've always loved them but I think they are a brave choice.
Front suspension is main dealer only and £1000 for new dampers ....ouch!
Not they arn't. I changed one of these myself and it was easy peasy. completely normal damper and coil, plus not actually the problem I was having.
You may be thinking about the 850CSI which had active suspension. Never tried one of those.
I am probably thinking 850csi
I recently read about the expense in Total BMW when a reader had written in for advice but I don't think they were specific about csi model.
So the 850i is standard and not active suspension, I think it may be back on my list of must have cars then. I think they are awesome and very practical.
I'm not going to debate "which 8 Series is 'the best'?" People can make up their own minds. However, I would point out the question is not synonymous with: "Which is the one to have now?"
However, going back to your original question: "Did I under sell?"
Well, that depends what you mean by the question really. For example, if simply selling as quickly as possible, for your asking price (and you were presumably happy with that asking price?)was your priority then the answer would have to be: "No...you didn't 'under sell'" You achieved what you set out to achieve.
If, however, you mean: "Could I have got more for the car?"... well, then the answer would probably have to be "Yes!"
If you had 22 phone calls in the first day before ending up having to take the phone off the hook and the second caller bought it straightaway that speaks volumes...doesn't it!?
When I was recently selling the car below I had (only!) 8 serious people lined up wanting to see it...the first chap bought it straightaway and I'm pretty sure had he not one of the others would have very quickly. Could I have got more?...Maybe! But the point is I knew what I wanted for the car...that was it...there was going to be no negotiation and I knew it would sell within the time frame I wanted. Had I stuck it out for longer at a higher price...well who knows! I can't dwell on that!
As a side note/tip...I've learnt it's best to try to avoid phone enquiries initially and try to specify that you'd prefer initial enquiries to be made via e-mail. Anybody who is truly serious about a car like this should be able to string a few words together? I've also found that people who respond in writing via e-mail tend to be much more reliable and punctual about turning up etc. Like you, I have in the past been inundated with time-consuming (not to say 'timewasting'!) phone calls from people who have no idea what they're talking about! With the 840Ci Sport below only one such phone call managed to 'slip through the net'!
www.bmwclassics.co.uk/840cisport/index.html
However, going back to your original question: "Did I under sell?"
Well, that depends what you mean by the question really. For example, if simply selling as quickly as possible, for your asking price (and you were presumably happy with that asking price?)was your priority then the answer would have to be: "No...you didn't 'under sell'" You achieved what you set out to achieve.
If, however, you mean: "Could I have got more for the car?"... well, then the answer would probably have to be "Yes!"
If you had 22 phone calls in the first day before ending up having to take the phone off the hook and the second caller bought it straightaway that speaks volumes...doesn't it!?
When I was recently selling the car below I had (only!) 8 serious people lined up wanting to see it...the first chap bought it straightaway and I'm pretty sure had he not one of the others would have very quickly. Could I have got more?...Maybe! But the point is I knew what I wanted for the car...that was it...there was going to be no negotiation and I knew it would sell within the time frame I wanted. Had I stuck it out for longer at a higher price...well who knows! I can't dwell on that!
As a side note/tip...I've learnt it's best to try to avoid phone enquiries initially and try to specify that you'd prefer initial enquiries to be made via e-mail. Anybody who is truly serious about a car like this should be able to string a few words together? I've also found that people who respond in writing via e-mail tend to be much more reliable and punctual about turning up etc. Like you, I have in the past been inundated with time-consuming (not to say 'timewasting'!) phone calls from people who have no idea what they're talking about! With the 840Ci Sport below only one such phone call managed to 'slip through the net'!
www.bmwclassics.co.uk/840cisport/index.html
Julian64 said:
the CSI. Heres why.
The CSI was an upped compression ratio and a enlarged cc. So a worse fuel economy for only another 80 bhp. The 850 could already outgun the later 840's and was the worlds best GT wafter, so not a lot of point. The CSI also had the added complexity of active kinematics suspension, and although the 8's engine and gearbox were bulletproof the kinematics were a known failure point on the CSI for no real benefit.
now if you really wanted the fastest 8, you wouldn't go for the CSI you would have gone back to the good old 850i. Dinnan did a two turbocharger conversion bolt on for the conservatively rated 8 which produced in xs of 500bhp!!
This conversion was not available for the CSI as its compression ratio was too high already for the dinan conversion so any CSI wanting this power would have to detune the head to 850 standard before turbos could be applied.
completely agree... the std M70 5.0L engine may have only produced 300bhp but at an 8.8:1 cr they are extremelly understressed and could go forever..... also perfect for a pair of turbo's with no internal mods whatsoever and with 10lb boost make 500bhp and 550ftlb.
I stripped an engine that had done over 100,000miles that I bought for £10 and there was almost no wear, increadable considering they run alloy bores!
andygtt said:
the CSI. Heres why.
The CSI was an upped compression ratio and a enlarged cc. So a worse fuel economy for only another 80 bhp. The 850 could already outgun the later 840's and was the worlds best GT wafter, so not a lot of point. The CSI also had the added complexity of active kinematics suspension, and although the 8's engine and gearbox were bulletproof the kinematics were a known failure point on the CSI for no real benefit.
now if you really wanted the fastest 8, you wouldn't go for the CSI you would have gone back to the good old 850i. Dinnan did a two turbocharger conversion bolt on for the conservatively rated 8 which produced in xs of 500bhp!!
This conversion was not available for the CSI as its compression ratio was too high already for the dinan conversion so any CSI wanting this power would have to detune the head to 850 standard before turbos could be applied.
completely agree... the std M70 5.0L engine may have only produced 300bhp but at an 8.8:1 cr they are extremelly understressed and could go forever..... also perfect for a pair of turbo's with no internal mods whatsoever and with 10lb boost make 500bhp and 550ftlb.
I stripped an engine that had done over 100,000miles that I bought for £10 and there was almost no wear, increadable considering they run alloy bores!
V12's used to run alluseal, not nikaseal bores. They didn't suffer from the petrol nikaseal problems. There are so many things like that about the original 8's, but people just wouldn't buy them.
andygtt said:
the CSI. Heres why.
The CSI was an upped compression ratio and a enlarged cc. So a worse fuel economy for only another 80 bhp. The 850 could already outgun the later 840's and was the worlds best GT wafter, so not a lot of point. The CSI also had the added complexity of active kinematics suspension, and although the 8's engine and gearbox were bulletproof the kinematics were a known failure point on the CSI for no real benefit.
now if you really wanted the fastest 8, you wouldn't go for the CSI you would have gone back to the good old 850i. Dinnan did a two turbocharger conversion bolt on for the conservatively rated 8 which produced in xs of 500bhp!!
This conversion was not available for the CSI as its compression ratio was too high already for the dinan conversion so any CSI wanting this power would have to detune the head to 850 standard before turbos could be applied.
completely agree... the std M70 5.0L engine may have only produced 300bhp but at an 8.8:1 cr they are extremelly understressed and could go forever..... also perfect for a pair of turbo's with no internal mods whatsoever and with 10lb boost make 500bhp and 550ftlb.
I stripped an engine that had done over 100,000miles that I bought for £10 and there was almost no wear, increadable considering they run alloy bores!
£10?!!
Can't decide if that's a great thing to get a V12 for £10, or if it's just a waste of £10!
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