Got 330ci, considering change to X5 - thoughts?
Discussion
I recently got the car I had been longing for – a 02’ 330ci Sport, fully loaded. Its great, but after having a total of 4 3series’s including this one, I am feeling a bit bored with it already.
I have decided I want an X5… higher driving position, automatic, comfortable and more space though I don’t need more space, I am quite tall and the 330 roof is millimetres above my hair line.
I haven’t driven one yet but will do this weekend I think – BMW dealers watch out, I’m blagging a test drive
Hope its nice, I am sure it will be.
Anyway… I am a little worried about the MPG, I spend over £200 on petrol each month so if the X5 is loads worse than the current one then that could be quite a hit. I have been looking on auto trader and have the option of a nice/top spec PETROL one or a average, not bad spec DIESEL one – how big is the difference in MPG and performance?
I get 22.4 average on the 330, which is fine (mixed town and motorway). I just would like to know what other X5 owners get, as if I end up getting 13mpg that’s going to be painful (if not a bit silly).
What sort of MPG do you get on your X5, and what engine?
Any recommendations with regard to engine… 3.0 plenty or should I push for the 4.4?
Budget by the way... 20 - 23k
Many Thanks!
I have decided I want an X5… higher driving position, automatic, comfortable and more space though I don’t need more space, I am quite tall and the 330 roof is millimetres above my hair line.
I haven’t driven one yet but will do this weekend I think – BMW dealers watch out, I’m blagging a test drive
Hope its nice, I am sure it will be. Anyway… I am a little worried about the MPG, I spend over £200 on petrol each month so if the X5 is loads worse than the current one then that could be quite a hit. I have been looking on auto trader and have the option of a nice/top spec PETROL one or a average, not bad spec DIESEL one – how big is the difference in MPG and performance?
I get 22.4 average on the 330, which is fine (mixed town and motorway). I just would like to know what other X5 owners get, as if I end up getting 13mpg that’s going to be painful (if not a bit silly).
What sort of MPG do you get on your X5, and what engine?
Any recommendations with regard to engine… 3.0 plenty or should I push for the 4.4?
Budget by the way... 20 - 23k
Many Thanks!
s a m said:
I recently got the car I had been longing for a 02
330ci Sport, fully loaded. Its great, but after having a total of
4 3series including this one, I am feeling a bit bored with it
already.
Good. A boring car doesn't leave you stranded on the M1.
s a m said:
I have decided I want an X5 higher driving position, automatic,
comfortable and more space though I dont need more space,
I am quite tall and the 330 roof is millimetres above my hair line.
I think you are mad. If it isn't broke don't fix it.
Further, if it isn't broke, don't go for a Chelsea Tractor.
All your mates will laugh at you.
Lousy fuel consumption [ 22 mpg for the 3.0 petrol it says here ],
dreadful dynamics as a result of being so tall
[ surely a topic crucial to any PH'er].
s a m said:
how big is the difference in MPG and performance?
Data is claimed to be
3.0 Petrol 22 mpg 8.3s 0-60 130 mph
4.4 22 mpg 7.0s 149 mph
4.8 21 mpg 6.1s 153 mph
3.0 diesel 33 mpg 8.3s 130 mph
s a m said:
I get 22.4 average on the 330, which is fine (mixed town and
motorway). I just would like to know what other X5 owners get,
as if I end up getting 13mpg thats going to be painful
(if not a bit silly).
330 is suppsed to deliver 30 or more mpg, you claim 22.4 mpg.
I suspect the claimed 22 mpg on the X5 will be about 15 mpg in
practice.
330ci will give 31.8 (well thats the best I have ever had it at, and thats doing a fixed 72 on the motorway).
I'm just bored with the 3 series... and the only car I like as much is the X5, I don't think thats mad at all
Edited to add...
I don't really go by what the BMW site says, as thats never real life. And yes the 330 is claimed to have 30 or 32 something and theres no way you would get that for very long. Any one have an X5 who could put foward their rough miles per tank?
>> Edited by s a m on Saturday 12th November 11:09
I'm just bored with the 3 series... and the only car I like as much is the X5, I don't think thats mad at all
Edited to add...
I don't really go by what the BMW site says, as thats never real life. And yes the 330 is claimed to have 30 or 32 something and theres no way you would get that for very long. Any one have an X5 who could put foward their rough miles per tank?
>> Edited by s a m on Saturday 12th November 11:09
Dreadful dynamics, you're kidding right? or more likely have little practical experience 
. Have a look on Fifth gear's track shootout http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=401& and then try and explain to me how an X5 can be only half a second behind a Honda Civic Type-R and quicker than a Seat Leon Cupra R or Mini Cooper S convertible. And that's on a narrow, tight and twisty circuit.
I moved from a 528i sport to an X5 3.0i Sport some 4/5 years ago and found X5's dynamics 'better' than the E39 5-series (it made me think that BMW could have done a lot better with the 5 series). I had also owned an E39 535i and M5, so my reference point was high.
sam, in answer to your question - since I've owned four X5s, a 3.0i petrol, 4.6is, two 4.8is and my brother owns a 3.0d. I've also owned a 330i Sport. In the 330i I usually averaged around 24mpg, but that would rise to 27/28 mpg on longer trips. That was a manual car, so an auto would be a 2-3 mpg less economical. Comparatively my 3.0i Sport X5 (auto) would average around 19 mpg along twisty stop-start type roads, on a smoother run it would see around 21mpg. The 3.0d will give around 24-26 mpg average with a best of 27-28mpg is really stroked gently. Personally I don't find the diesel's advantage worthwhile unless on a longer journey where you can travel further without stopping for a refuel. Also the loss of refinement is really noticeable compared to the petrol engined X5s, but the extra torque of the 3.0d over the 3.0i petrol probably swings it in the diesels favour particularly since you can chip the diesel. The 4.4i is a couple of mpg less economical than the 3.0i, however the new valvetronic V8s now fitted to X5s (since 2004) reverses this trend and the V8s are now less consumptive than the 3.0i petrol. The V8s are the best X5s in my view because they provide a lovely engine/exhaust sound plus lots of torque, but if on a budget then the 3.0d makes most sense (although the 3.0i petrol will be cheaper to buy).
The worst I ever saw on the 3.0i petrol was 17 mpg and that was being driven 'very' hard up a mountain road in the French Alps. To get 13mpg you'd have to be doing that whilst towing another car. In practice the X5 will drink more fuel than the 330, of course it will, but if you don't have a problem with around 20mpg then it's not too bad considering.
Go and drive one and see how you feel. If possible try and get one for a full day or weekend since your first impressions will be of a less agile, heavier car, but once you learn to really lean on the chassis you will be surprised how much grip, composure and fun they can be.
>> Edited by DoctorD on Saturday 12th November 12:47
. Have a look on Fifth gear's track shootout http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=401& and then try and explain to me how an X5 can be only half a second behind a Honda Civic Type-R and quicker than a Seat Leon Cupra R or Mini Cooper S convertible. And that's on a narrow, tight and twisty circuit. I moved from a 528i sport to an X5 3.0i Sport some 4/5 years ago and found X5's dynamics 'better' than the E39 5-series (it made me think that BMW could have done a lot better with the 5 series). I had also owned an E39 535i and M5, so my reference point was high.
sam, in answer to your question - since I've owned four X5s, a 3.0i petrol, 4.6is, two 4.8is and my brother owns a 3.0d. I've also owned a 330i Sport. In the 330i I usually averaged around 24mpg, but that would rise to 27/28 mpg on longer trips. That was a manual car, so an auto would be a 2-3 mpg less economical. Comparatively my 3.0i Sport X5 (auto) would average around 19 mpg along twisty stop-start type roads, on a smoother run it would see around 21mpg. The 3.0d will give around 24-26 mpg average with a best of 27-28mpg is really stroked gently. Personally I don't find the diesel's advantage worthwhile unless on a longer journey where you can travel further without stopping for a refuel. Also the loss of refinement is really noticeable compared to the petrol engined X5s, but the extra torque of the 3.0d over the 3.0i petrol probably swings it in the diesels favour particularly since you can chip the diesel. The 4.4i is a couple of mpg less economical than the 3.0i, however the new valvetronic V8s now fitted to X5s (since 2004) reverses this trend and the V8s are now less consumptive than the 3.0i petrol. The V8s are the best X5s in my view because they provide a lovely engine/exhaust sound plus lots of torque, but if on a budget then the 3.0d makes most sense (although the 3.0i petrol will be cheaper to buy).
The worst I ever saw on the 3.0i petrol was 17 mpg and that was being driven 'very' hard up a mountain road in the French Alps. To get 13mpg you'd have to be doing that whilst towing another car. In practice the X5 will drink more fuel than the 330, of course it will, but if you don't have a problem with around 20mpg then it's not too bad considering.
Go and drive one and see how you feel. If possible try and get one for a full day or weekend since your first impressions will be of a less agile, heavier car, but once you learn to really lean on the chassis you will be surprised how much grip, composure and fun they can be.
>> Edited by DoctorD on Saturday 12th November 12:47
Thanks DoctorD, that was a truly great reply... its really helped.
I am looking about, didn't manage to get a test drive at BMW today... they just fobbed me off with a call back when they find something... grr. Not that I would buy it from them anyway, but they don't know that.
Any advice as to how I can borrow an X5 for some time? I have only ever taken 10minute test drives, but I agree, its not enough to appreciate or, find you don't like a car. How should I get that sort of drive?
Cheers again for all the info.
Regards,
Sam
I am looking about, didn't manage to get a test drive at BMW today... they just fobbed me off with a call back when they find something... grr. Not that I would buy it from them anyway, but they don't know that.
Any advice as to how I can borrow an X5 for some time? I have only ever taken 10minute test drives, but I agree, its not enough to appreciate or, find you don't like a car. How should I get that sort of drive?
Cheers again for all the info.
Regards,
Sam
Just one point about the the X5 a new one is out next year (I believe) and current ones are loosing a fortune in depreciation over supply etc. If I still had mine it would have lost about 15k in 18 months..and thats on a used one.
If your really need a 4x4 I'd have a look at the new Merc ML..looks the business and beats the X5 in a comparison test.
Phil
If your really need a 4x4 I'd have a look at the new Merc ML..looks the business and beats the X5 in a comparison test.
Phil
s a m said:
Any advice as to how I can borrow an X5 for some time? I have only ever taken 10minute test drives, but I agree, its not enough to appreciate or, find you don't like a car. How should I get that sort of drive?
Regards,
Sam
You just need to inform them of your situation (looking to change from a 3 to an X5) and say you'll need an extended drive. Any good dealer will understand your predicament and be prepared to let you drive a car over a day or overnight.
Phil Dicky said:
Just one point about the the X5 a new one is out next year (I believe) and current ones are loosing a fortune in depreciation over supply etc. If I still had mine it would have lost about 15k in 18 months..and thats on a used one.
If your really need a 4x4 I'd have a look at the new Merc ML..looks the business and beats the X5 in a comparison test.
Phil
For the price of a new ML you could pick up a much higher specced used X5.
When you say that the ML has beaten the X5 in a comparison test, that wasn't for dynamics but instead more about ride comfort. X5 still seems to be the best drivers car, which could well be important when coming from a 3-series.
Thanks for the advice on the test drive, I will give that a go. Being 20 dosent help as they usually fob you off as they think you borrowed mums car and want to take something out for a spin.
I want to make sure the X5 is right... not buy one then realise its not after a few days.
I'm not a big fan of the ML, not really a fan of Mercs at all (except the SL350/500 and up).
330ci and the wired throttle...
Yes, there is a delay, but its minor. I don't really find it a problem, its a fraction of a second. The only time it is a pain in the @rse is when you tap it in first gear, then you end up bouncing along because you tap the power too hard, you get thrown back, your foot then taps it harder, you ease off, and you end up moving foward, then in a bit of a cycle of power on power off until you lift up. This is really just something you get the hang of, you soon pick up that the power in first gear is quite pokey, and gently apply power, anything too hard when your not really thinking about it will deffinetly result in either flying off the mark (then a startled lift, which you will feel too), or if you suddenly come off a bit thinking "oops", will usually result in a bit of bouncing. Hope that makes sense!!!
I want to make sure the X5 is right... not buy one then realise its not after a few days.
I'm not a big fan of the ML, not really a fan of Mercs at all (except the SL350/500 and up).
330ci and the wired throttle...
Yes, there is a delay, but its minor. I don't really find it a problem, its a fraction of a second. The only time it is a pain in the @rse is when you tap it in first gear, then you end up bouncing along because you tap the power too hard, you get thrown back, your foot then taps it harder, you ease off, and you end up moving foward, then in a bit of a cycle of power on power off until you lift up. This is really just something you get the hang of, you soon pick up that the power in first gear is quite pokey, and gently apply power, anything too hard when your not really thinking about it will deffinetly result in either flying off the mark (then a startled lift, which you will feel too), or if you suddenly come off a bit thinking "oops", will usually result in a bit of bouncing. Hope that makes sense!!!
Sam,
Currently have a 330 ci Clubsport and a 4.4 X5. Clubsport gets about 28 MPG and the X5 about 18mpg. According to a friend at BMW, the 3.0 petrol is not that far away from the 4.4, but the performance differential is amazing. The V8s are a real wolf in sheep's clothing as most X5s are either 3.0 petrol or 3.0 deisel so most people expect you to be the same. I still grin when other drivers are amazed when they can't out accelerate you !! Even the lowly 4.4 is a match for most "sports cars" out there. (See MG etc)
Paul
Currently have a 330 ci Clubsport and a 4.4 X5. Clubsport gets about 28 MPG and the X5 about 18mpg. According to a friend at BMW, the 3.0 petrol is not that far away from the 4.4, but the performance differential is amazing. The V8s are a real wolf in sheep's clothing as most X5s are either 3.0 petrol or 3.0 deisel so most people expect you to be the same. I still grin when other drivers are amazed when they can't out accelerate you !! Even the lowly 4.4 is a match for most "sports cars" out there. (See MG etc)
Paul
Sam
I've got the facelifted X5 (2004) 4.4 V8 (having got rid of my TVR Cerbera to get a more "practical" car).
For a big lump, the 4.4 has bags of power without the fuel consumption being excessive. And it handles like a saloon. I tend to throttle mine, getting an average mpg of 19.5. When driven sensibly, the fuel consumption is conservative - I did a 290 mile trip (95% motorway) in August on almost exactly half a tank of fuel.
I've got the facelifted X5 (2004) 4.4 V8 (having got rid of my TVR Cerbera to get a more "practical" car).
For a big lump, the 4.4 has bags of power without the fuel consumption being excessive. And it handles like a saloon. I tend to throttle mine, getting an average mpg of 19.5. When driven sensibly, the fuel consumption is conservative - I did a 290 mile trip (95% motorway) in August on almost exactly half a tank of fuel.
DoctorD said:
Just one point about the the X5 a new one is out next year (I believe) and current ones are loosing a fortune in depreciation over supply etc. If I still had mine it would have lost about 15k in 18 months..and thats on a used one.
If your really need a 4x4 I'd have a look at the new Merc ML..looks the business and beats the X5 in a comparison test.
Phil
For the price of a new ML you could pick up a much higher specced used X5.
When you say that the ML has beaten the X5 in a comparison test, that wasn't for dynamics but instead more about ride comfort. X5 still seems to be the best drivers car, which could well be important when coming from a 3-series.
Fair point about the dynamics of the X5 I did really enjoy mine. But the depreciation at the moment needs to be considered they are loosing alot of money quickly.
Phil
Just got home after test driving a X5 2001 4.4 V8, not bad, very nice to drive. A couple of points though...
> Its quick ish, but being an auto (I don’t have much experience of autos really) its quite laggy, you boot it and nothing happens for a while then it does pick up, but it sounds much more gutzy than it feels though thats party down to it being so smooth.
> I am used to the great side visibility thanks to the Coupe's long window, but the X5 being 5 door has a nasty pillar right on my eye line so when I turn right, I cant see jack.
> Interior... well this is really just the age but the 2001 old interior isn’t very nice, the old steering wheel etc doesn’t look all that great and felt a bit come-down from my 2002 330.
So in general it was nice, but I guess it was a little disappointing - largely because it was on old-ish one (the new ones are much, much nicer of course).
Oh and have a guess what BMW offered me for my "mint condition FBMWSH 2002 39,000mile fully loaded 330ci sport, silver, full black leather, satnav tv, harmon/kardon, M-Tech packs etc etc.............. wait for it................ fourteen thousand pounds – Quick, Where do I sign!?!?!
I am going to have a look at some newer ones though, this one was a very early model. Not sure whether I want one or not at the moment.
(M3, yes please, don’t think I can afford that though)
Thanks for all your help and advice RE the X5.
> Its quick ish, but being an auto (I don’t have much experience of autos really) its quite laggy, you boot it and nothing happens for a while then it does pick up, but it sounds much more gutzy than it feels though thats party down to it being so smooth.
> I am used to the great side visibility thanks to the Coupe's long window, but the X5 being 5 door has a nasty pillar right on my eye line so when I turn right, I cant see jack.
> Interior... well this is really just the age but the 2001 old interior isn’t very nice, the old steering wheel etc doesn’t look all that great and felt a bit come-down from my 2002 330.
So in general it was nice, but I guess it was a little disappointing - largely because it was on old-ish one (the new ones are much, much nicer of course).
Oh and have a guess what BMW offered me for my "mint condition FBMWSH 2002 39,000mile fully loaded 330ci sport, silver, full black leather, satnav tv, harmon/kardon, M-Tech packs etc etc.............. wait for it................ fourteen thousand pounds – Quick, Where do I sign!?!?!
I am going to have a look at some newer ones though, this one was a very early model. Not sure whether I want one or not at the moment.
(M3, yes please, don’t think I can afford that though)
Thanks for all your help and advice RE the X5.
I think its partly the insurance group, and general running costs.
Maybe I need to start a new thread on this!?
My thoughts regarding M3 (and why I shouldn't get one yet...)
> Fuel - sub 19 even on a motorway?
> Servicing - isn't it about £1000 for a service? Servicing the 3 series is not too bad - £130 oil, ~£250 Service 1, ~£350 Service 2 (iirc) - M3 is loads more I believe, plus parts are tons more too.
> Insurance - group 20 isn't it...
> Depreciation - if I stick 10k miles on it, and I bought it at 25k, its going to end up a high-miler.
(I am not minted as it were so not too sure if an M3 is right for me yet, I don’t have the disposable income to cover £1000 services regularly for example. Hence I went for the 330 because it’s a “normal affordable” car but with plenty of poke.)
Maybe I need to start a new thread on this!?
My thoughts regarding M3 (and why I shouldn't get one yet...)
> Fuel - sub 19 even on a motorway?
> Servicing - isn't it about £1000 for a service? Servicing the 3 series is not too bad - £130 oil, ~£250 Service 1, ~£350 Service 2 (iirc) - M3 is loads more I believe, plus parts are tons more too.
> Insurance - group 20 isn't it...
> Depreciation - if I stick 10k miles on it, and I bought it at 25k, its going to end up a high-miler.
(I am not minted as it were so not too sure if an M3 is right for me yet, I don’t have the disposable income to cover £1000 services regularly for example. Hence I went for the 330 because it’s a “normal affordable” car but with plenty of poke.)
s a m said:
I think its partly the insurance group, and general running costs.
Maybe I need to start a new thread on this!?
My thoughts regarding M3 (and why I shouldn't get one yet...)
> Fuel - sub 19 even on a motorway?
> Servicing - isn't it about £1000 for a service? Servicing the 3 series is not too bad - £130 oil, ~£250 Service 1, ~£350 Service 2 (iirc) - M3 is loads more I believe, plus parts are tons more too.
> Insurance - group 20 isn't it...
> Depreciation - if I stick 10k miles on it, and I bought it at 25k, its going to end up a high-miler.
(I am not minted as it were so not too sure if an M3 is right for me yet, I don’t have the disposable income to cover £1000 services regularly for example. Hence I went for the 330 because it’s a “normal affordable” car but with plenty of poke.)
To be honest I didn't realise the M3's were so expensive to service, but from what you've said I guess you can rule them out. But double check to be on the safe side
Phil
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