M3 E36 - A good or bad idea?!
Discussion
Greetings,
I am in the unfortunate position of having to sell my beloved VX220 and am looking for a car around 6-7k as a replacement. As such I've been pointed in the direction of an E36 M3. Most of the cars are relatively high mileage 90-100k but are quite tidy.
Are there any major pitfalls I should be looking out for? I am aware of VANOS problems, how would I check to see if this has been done? Will my potential car turn into a monster moneytrap that will leave me regretting it?
HELP!
I am in the unfortunate position of having to sell my beloved VX220 and am looking for a car around 6-7k as a replacement. As such I've been pointed in the direction of an E36 M3. Most of the cars are relatively high mileage 90-100k but are quite tidy.
Are there any major pitfalls I should be looking out for? I am aware of VANOS problems, how would I check to see if this has been done? Will my potential car turn into a monster moneytrap that will leave me regretting it?
HELP!
Charlie
Ive just bought my 2nd M3, Vanos is a concern but not a deal breaker, try and get one with documented proof that its been done, if it hasnt I wouldnt buy it, but thats just my opinion,some owners have had their cars for years with no Vanos issues, its a 2k ish bill to sort it when it goes tits up though..., you can get an Evo for 7K no problem, and a standard minter M3 3.0 for 7K, and a lot less,its a buyers market, I offered silly money for mine and the guy turned me down flat, I walked away and he shouted me back and we did the deal. They are fab cars mate and quick too, but insurance and fuel/servives etc are expensive. You might have to get up and down the country too, to get a gudun.
HTH
Ive just bought my 2nd M3, Vanos is a concern but not a deal breaker, try and get one with documented proof that its been done, if it hasnt I wouldnt buy it, but thats just my opinion,some owners have had their cars for years with no Vanos issues, its a 2k ish bill to sort it when it goes tits up though..., you can get an Evo for 7K no problem, and a standard minter M3 3.0 for 7K, and a lot less,its a buyers market, I offered silly money for mine and the guy turned me down flat, I walked away and he shouted me back and we did the deal. They are fab cars mate and quick too, but insurance and fuel/servives etc are expensive. You might have to get up and down the country too, to get a gudun.
HTH
That sounds over the top for an average year, if you had to buy tyres, and had say an inspection 2, and had a couple of small repairs and you went to BMW, to get it all done, it could be around that figure, but I would say on average I spend around £700 on servicing and repairs,but I use independant BMW specialists, who will not rip you off like BMW main dealers, I spend more on mods and upgrades TBH
charlieromeo said:
I just enquired with Munich Legends as to running costs and servicing etc. They are quoting an amount of typically £1500 for maintenance every year?!!! Surely that's a bit much?
I was just wondering what typically you spend on it a year?
I use an Independant, much cheaper and more trustworthy
charlieromeo said:
Greetings,
I am in the unfortunate position of having to sell my beloved VX220 and am looking for a car around 6-7k as a replacement. As such I've been pointed in the direction of an E36 M3. Most of the cars are relatively high mileage 90-100k but are quite tidy.
Are there any major pitfalls I should be looking out for? I am aware of VANOS problems, how would I check to see if this has been done? Will my potential car turn into a monster moneytrap that will leave me regretting it?
HELP!
There are a lot of standard E36 parts on an M3, so the big danger for bills is just the non-standard parts. Consumables like brake discs, tyres are pricier than on a non-performance car, and the "Inspection" services are very expensive at a BMW dealer. There are lots of cheaper Indepedents around though.
I think you could buy a really well-looked after pre-Evo car with few worries for that price. It may take some searching to find a good one. I think a good Evo in that range will be harder to find.
Aside from Vanos on the Evo, you don't really hear about any common major issues with these cars, they are pretty solid.
Or you get get even more sensible/safer and get one of these like I did. About a year and a half ago faced with a similar dilemna and the plethora of M3's up for sale I went for an Alpina B3 (in fully manual spec...not the more common 'Switchtronic'...and hence faster).
Ok...it's less highly strung than the M3 and hence ultimately less powerful but the engine is also far less stressed and the power is more accessible. Whilst I had it in at Moseley Motorsport recently for a routine service they also had three E36 M3s in with terminally/seriously blown engines!
Addtionally, although on paper it is down some 36 bhp vs the 3.0 M3, Alpina have I think essentially 'cheated' to achieve near comparable 0-60 times by adjusting the gearing! Furthermore Alpina never signed up to the 'gentlemen's' agreement to limit top speeds to 155 mph...the B3 will top out in excess of 160 mph (If that's relevant to you?). My own driving experience of the car leads me to believe that the claims are probably true...Your Honour!
Added to this is the fact that most of the parts are actually standard E36 328i including brakes etc (cheap)and excellent fuel consumption...I have never seen it drop below 30 mpg.
Ok...if the engine does go "bang" you might be looking at Alpina parts and prices to repair...but I can't see that they'd be significantly more than Motorsport parts?
All in all, a very benign proposition with a very respectable turn of speed, sensible running costs and now virtually depreciation proof.
www.thealpinaregister.com/photos.php?alpinaid=59&carid=647&type=5
Ok...it's less highly strung than the M3 and hence ultimately less powerful but the engine is also far less stressed and the power is more accessible. Whilst I had it in at Moseley Motorsport recently for a routine service they also had three E36 M3s in with terminally/seriously blown engines!
Addtionally, although on paper it is down some 36 bhp vs the 3.0 M3, Alpina have I think essentially 'cheated' to achieve near comparable 0-60 times by adjusting the gearing! Furthermore Alpina never signed up to the 'gentlemen's' agreement to limit top speeds to 155 mph...the B3 will top out in excess of 160 mph (If that's relevant to you?). My own driving experience of the car leads me to believe that the claims are probably true...Your Honour!
Added to this is the fact that most of the parts are actually standard E36 328i including brakes etc (cheap)and excellent fuel consumption...I have never seen it drop below 30 mpg.
Ok...if the engine does go "bang" you might be looking at Alpina parts and prices to repair...but I can't see that they'd be significantly more than Motorsport parts?
All in all, a very benign proposition with a very respectable turn of speed, sensible running costs and now virtually depreciation proof.
www.thealpinaregister.com/photos.php?alpinaid=59&carid=647&type=5
Aha if I can stick my ore in!! As Nick says, I'm the proud owner of the M3 GT featured in
this months total BMW mag. This is the 2nd E36 M3 I've owned, the 1st one back in 1998 which was a standard 3.0 and the GT is a far better and rarer car.
I've had it about 2 months now and have a few upgrades and am planning to replace some of the tired bits are the car is 10 years old now.
I looked at both 3.0 and Evo's and to be honest, the double vanos thing put me off + the quoted 321 BHP is very rarely seen on standard Evo's where as the 3.0 is usually nearer the quoted figure of 286 BHP. The 3 litre engine is apparently the more responsive to tuning too.
I liked the thought of the GT as there were only 350 or so built and its got a few of the better Evo parts, like the steering rack and aluminium doors plus it has dual oil pumps, different cams, (giving 295 BHP) stiffer suspension, front strut brace and adjustable front and rear spoilers. If you've seen the project running in the last 3 or so EVO mags, then it'll give you some idea of the cars potential.
BUT - These cars are still expensive to run. Although its a 10 year old car, its still cost the best side of £40k when new and the running costs reflect this .... main dealer servicing is pricy ... £120 for an oil service, £400 for inspection 1 and £800 for an inspection 2, although and good. independant will beat those prices. They're not a car to scrimp servicing and running costs on. The VANOS in either cars can go wrong and dealers charge £2k for a new one, although some have managed to rebuild by replacing parts and I've heard that replacement of the VANOS filter and retaining bolts can prevent failure.
Because of the servicing costs, there are also a lot of badly maintained cars. I've never seen as many dog rough cars in any make and model! So go for as low mileage and as well maintained as possible cos there are some still out there, although expect to be replacing things like bushes and top mounts if they've not already been done.
If you get the right car, you'll have loads of fun, for £7k or £8k, you'll have something practical, reliable, reasonable handling with 300 BHP on tap and one of the best engines in the world!
this months total BMW mag. This is the 2nd E36 M3 I've owned, the 1st one back in 1998 which was a standard 3.0 and the GT is a far better and rarer car.
I've had it about 2 months now and have a few upgrades and am planning to replace some of the tired bits are the car is 10 years old now.
I looked at both 3.0 and Evo's and to be honest, the double vanos thing put me off + the quoted 321 BHP is very rarely seen on standard Evo's where as the 3.0 is usually nearer the quoted figure of 286 BHP. The 3 litre engine is apparently the more responsive to tuning too.
I liked the thought of the GT as there were only 350 or so built and its got a few of the better Evo parts, like the steering rack and aluminium doors plus it has dual oil pumps, different cams, (giving 295 BHP) stiffer suspension, front strut brace and adjustable front and rear spoilers. If you've seen the project running in the last 3 or so EVO mags, then it'll give you some idea of the cars potential.
BUT - These cars are still expensive to run. Although its a 10 year old car, its still cost the best side of £40k when new and the running costs reflect this .... main dealer servicing is pricy ... £120 for an oil service, £400 for inspection 1 and £800 for an inspection 2, although and good. independant will beat those prices. They're not a car to scrimp servicing and running costs on. The VANOS in either cars can go wrong and dealers charge £2k for a new one, although some have managed to rebuild by replacing parts and I've heard that replacement of the VANOS filter and retaining bolts can prevent failure.
Because of the servicing costs, there are also a lot of badly maintained cars. I've never seen as many dog rough cars in any make and model! So go for as low mileage and as well maintained as possible cos there are some still out there, although expect to be replacing things like bushes and top mounts if they've not already been done.
If you get the right car, you'll have loads of fun, for £7k or £8k, you'll have something practical, reliable, reasonable handling with 300 BHP on tap and one of the best engines in the world!
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