Suspension Help
Discussion
Apologies first of all. I know this topic may have been covered before, but I think the suspension game has moved on a bit since the last threads were active.
So I have an E36 328i Sport with the Avus suspension. It's is a good compromise, but I am after a setup that eliminates some of the reverse rake and makes for a more neutral balance before I look into ARBs and LSDs.
I did consider Eibach or H&R lowering springs and some fine tuning with the help of spring pads, but ultimately the need for some dampening adjustment is a big factor as well.
A reputable specialist did question why I haven't gone the coilovers route as yet and I responded for fear of ballsing up a set up that was tuned by the M-division.
The main things I'm looking for would be monotube dampers similar to the current setup, a galvanised or stainless thread to combat rust and a damper that preferably uses the factory top mounts as I think pillow ball mounts, adjustability aside, may be a bit harsh.
Where would your money go?
So I have an E36 328i Sport with the Avus suspension. It's is a good compromise, but I am after a setup that eliminates some of the reverse rake and makes for a more neutral balance before I look into ARBs and LSDs.
I did consider Eibach or H&R lowering springs and some fine tuning with the help of spring pads, but ultimately the need for some dampening adjustment is a big factor as well.
A reputable specialist did question why I haven't gone the coilovers route as yet and I responded for fear of ballsing up a set up that was tuned by the M-division.
The main things I'm looking for would be monotube dampers similar to the current setup, a galvanised or stainless thread to combat rust and a damper that preferably uses the factory top mounts as I think pillow ball mounts, adjustability aside, may be a bit harsh.
Where would your money go?
J.R.Slider said:
Apologies first of all. I know this topic may have been covered before, but I think the suspension game has moved on a bit since the last threads were active.
So I have an E36 328i Sport with the Avus suspension. It's is a good compromise, but I am after a setup that eliminates some of the reverse rake and makes for a more neutral balance before I look into ARBs and LSDs.
I did consider Eibach or H&R lowering springs and some fine tuning with the help of spring pads, but ultimately the need for some dampening adjustment is a big factor as well.
A reputable specialist did question why I haven't gone the coilovers route as yet and I responded for fear of ballsing up a set up that was tuned by the M-division.
The main things I'm looking for would be monotube dampers similar to the current setup, a galvanised or stainless thread to combat rust and a damper that preferably uses the factory top mounts as I think pillow ball mounts, adjustability aside, may be a bit harsh.
Where would your money go?
KW V1s or the ST equivalent (if you want fixed damping rates) and can dial in the ride height etc; or the V2s (or again STs equivalent) to dial in both ride height and damping ratesSo I have an E36 328i Sport with the Avus suspension. It's is a good compromise, but I am after a setup that eliminates some of the reverse rake and makes for a more neutral balance before I look into ARBs and LSDs.
I did consider Eibach or H&R lowering springs and some fine tuning with the help of spring pads, but ultimately the need for some dampening adjustment is a big factor as well.
A reputable specialist did question why I haven't gone the coilovers route as yet and I responded for fear of ballsing up a set up that was tuned by the M-division.
The main things I'm looking for would be monotube dampers similar to the current setup, a galvanised or stainless thread to combat rust and a damper that preferably uses the factory top mounts as I think pillow ball mounts, adjustability aside, may be a bit harsh.
Where would your money go?
ST are made by KW; but galvanised rather than stainless steel
Look at what GAZ can offer as well.
You could consider Bilstein shocks with Eibach pro kit springs; B4S shocks will be factory spec; B6s / B8s much firmer/stiffer etc
Getting coilovers fitted properly, with some corner weighting, a full tracking & alignment and a fast-road set up is key; they then shouldn't be harsh at all, more so if you get adjustable damping coilovers, which means you can alter it to your needs
Thanks for the response. I do like KW for their build quality and adjustability.
The Bilstein B6/B8 is identical to the factory sport setup AFAIK so at most the addition of lowering springs could be all that's needed.
I have never considered GAZ but have heard consistently good reviews about them so will definitely do some research into their gear.
It's the 'corner-weighted, dialed-in' part about the coilovers that is appealing. If they can ride somewhat comparable to what I currently have on my car whilst giving an upgrade in the handling category, then it will be a winner.
The Bilstein B6/B8 is identical to the factory sport setup AFAIK so at most the addition of lowering springs could be all that's needed.
I have never considered GAZ but have heard consistently good reviews about them so will definitely do some research into their gear.
It's the 'corner-weighted, dialed-in' part about the coilovers that is appealing. If they can ride somewhat comparable to what I currently have on my car whilst giving an upgrade in the handling category, then it will be a winner.
J.R.Slider said:
Thanks for the response. I do like KW for their build quality and adjustability.
The Bilstein B6/B8 is identical to the factory sport setup AFAIK so at most the addition of lowering springs could be all that's needed.
I have never considered GAZ but have heard consistently good reviews about them so will definitely do some research into their gear.
It's the 'corner-weighted, dialed-in' part about the coilovers that is appealing. If they can ride somewhat comparable to what I currently have on my car whilst giving an upgrade in the handling category, then it will be a winner.
Not sure where in the UK you are; but finding a motorsports specialist to do all that for you, IMO, is key!The Bilstein B6/B8 is identical to the factory sport setup AFAIK so at most the addition of lowering springs could be all that's needed.
I have never considered GAZ but have heard consistently good reviews about them so will definitely do some research into their gear.
It's the 'corner-weighted, dialed-in' part about the coilovers that is appealing. If they can ride somewhat comparable to what I currently have on my car whilst giving an upgrade in the handling category, then it will be a winner.
They know wat they're doing and can get it fitted and set up easy enough; a prime time to replace any other suspension parts too
GAZ are excellent, UK made too, so any issues and you'll soon have them resolved
Know plenty of folk with them, off the shelf, and some custom made too and they're superb. Mainly track focussed cars, but some daily's too
danb79 said:
Not sure where in the UK you are; but finding a motorsports specialist to do all that for you, IMO, is key!
They know wat they're doing and can get it fitted and set up easy enough; a prime time to replace any other suspension parts too
GAZ are excellent, UK made too, so any issues and you'll soon have them resolved
Know plenty of folk with them, off the shelf, and some custom made too and they're superb. Mainly track focussed cars, but some daily's too
Based in London. Not sure of any Motorsport specialists near me though.They know wat they're doing and can get it fitted and set up easy enough; a prime time to replace any other suspension parts too
GAZ are excellent, UK made too, so any issues and you'll soon have them resolved
Know plenty of folk with them, off the shelf, and some custom made too and they're superb. Mainly track focussed cars, but some daily's too
Would definitely throw any other suspension bits on while it's apart.
GAZ sound great as I would like a custom built suspension if possible as I guess my requirements are quite specific.
J.R.Slider said:
Based in London. Not sure of any Motorsport specialists near me though.
Would definitely throw any other suspension bits on while it's apart.
GAZ sound great as I would like a custom built suspension if possible as I guess my requirements are quite specific.
Absolutely...Would definitely throw any other suspension bits on while it's apart.
GAZ sound great as I would like a custom built suspension if possible as I guess my requirements are quite specific.
My pals own Grinspeed up this way (Preston, Lancs) and they'd be a good bet for you if you're interested in a road trip. They make their own coilovers too FYI. Could be worth speaking to
They'd do all you need inc the set up
Eibach Pro springs with another set of Bilsteins would be my choice. Rake shifted and damping performance restored.
I think the tempation with older cars is to go too stiff because we've forgotten what the car drove like when it was new, but just needs the standard stuff refreshing in most cases to get the handling and comfort back.
You might want to get any rotten bushes replaced as well. They dry rot on low mileage cars, and wear out on well used cars.
I think the tempation with older cars is to go too stiff because we've forgotten what the car drove like when it was new, but just needs the standard stuff refreshing in most cases to get the handling and comfort back.
You might want to get any rotten bushes replaced as well. They dry rot on low mileage cars, and wear out on well used cars.
rottenegg said:
Eibach Pro springs with another set of Bilsteins would be my choice. Rake shifted and damping performance restored.
I think the tempation with older cars is to go too stiff because we've forgotten what the car drove like when it was new, but just needs the standard stuff refreshing in most cases to get the handling and comfort back.
You might want to get any rotten bushes replaced as well. They dry rot on low mileage cars, and wear out on well used cars.
A good callI think the tempation with older cars is to go too stiff because we've forgotten what the car drove like when it was new, but just needs the standard stuff refreshing in most cases to get the handling and comfort back.
You might want to get any rotten bushes replaced as well. They dry rot on low mileage cars, and wear out on well used cars.
You know I'm a fan of the Bilstein B4S with eibach pro kit springs (on both our F31 and my E81); but like the OP I'll be going coilovers Spring 2025 and the KW V2s are very adjustable and offer a very good ride and ride compliance; much better than the likes of BCs etc
danb79 said:
rottenegg said:
Eibach Pro springs with another set of Bilsteins would be my choice. Rake shifted and damping performance restored.
I think the tempation with older cars is to go too stiff because we've forgotten what the car drove like when it was new, but just needs the standard stuff refreshing in most cases to get the handling and comfort back.
You might want to get any rotten bushes replaced as well. They dry rot on low mileage cars, and wear out on well used cars.
A good callI think the tempation with older cars is to go too stiff because we've forgotten what the car drove like when it was new, but just needs the standard stuff refreshing in most cases to get the handling and comfort back.
You might want to get any rotten bushes replaced as well. They dry rot on low mileage cars, and wear out on well used cars.
You know I'm a fan of the Bilstein B4S with eibach pro kit springs (on both our F31 and my E81); but like the OP I'll be going coilovers Spring 2025 and the KW V2s are very adjustable and offer a very good ride and ride compliance; much better than the likes of BCs etc
I had KW V3s in my long and distant past on a VW, and whilst the stainless INOX build quality is the best in the business, the spring and damping rates weren't to my tastes. Too much spring rate, not enough damping, so bouncy bouncy on B roads. I like tight and responsive damping with less spring rate
The only time I ever got that from coilovers was with Gaz Golds (superb) and Ohlins DFV (even more superb), but the cost benefit is very questionable in the case of the Ohlins, and they don't last very long either.
rottenegg said:
I normally steer clear of lowering springs but the Eibach Pros really are a zero compromise upgrade! Partnered with some good dampers, it's even better
I had KW V3s in my long and distant past on a VW, and whilst the stainless INOX build quality is the best in the business, the spring and damping rates weren't to my tastes. Too much spring rate, not enough damping, so bouncy bouncy on B roads. I like tight and responsive damping with less spring rate
The only time I ever got that from coilovers was with Gaz Golds (superb) and Ohlins DFV (even more superb), but the cost benefit is very questionable in the case of the Ohlins, and they don't last very long either.
What is it with Ohlins currently; seen a few Evo owners that have had numerous issues and my pals have had a few sets in for rebuild too...I had KW V3s in my long and distant past on a VW, and whilst the stainless INOX build quality is the best in the business, the spring and damping rates weren't to my tastes. Too much spring rate, not enough damping, so bouncy bouncy on B roads. I like tight and responsive damping with less spring rate
The only time I ever got that from coilovers was with Gaz Golds (superb) and Ohlins DFV (even more superb), but the cost benefit is very questionable in the case of the Ohlins, and they don't last very long either.
GAZ do seem to get rave reviews and are right up there with KW V2s for me for my 130i next Spring
danb79 said:
rottenegg said:
I normally steer clear of lowering springs but the Eibach Pros really are a zero compromise upgrade! Partnered with some good dampers, it's even better
I had KW V3s in my long and distant past on a VW, and whilst the stainless INOX build quality is the best in the business, the spring and damping rates weren't to my tastes. Too much spring rate, not enough damping, so bouncy bouncy on B roads. I like tight and responsive damping with less spring rate
The only time I ever got that from coilovers was with Gaz Golds (superb) and Ohlins DFV (even more superb), but the cost benefit is very questionable in the case of the Ohlins, and they don't last very long either.
What is it with Ohlins currently; seen a few Evo owners that have had numerous issues and my pals have had a few sets in for rebuild too...I had KW V3s in my long and distant past on a VW, and whilst the stainless INOX build quality is the best in the business, the spring and damping rates weren't to my tastes. Too much spring rate, not enough damping, so bouncy bouncy on B roads. I like tight and responsive damping with less spring rate
The only time I ever got that from coilovers was with Gaz Golds (superb) and Ohlins DFV (even more superb), but the cost benefit is very questionable in the case of the Ohlins, and they don't last very long either.
GAZ do seem to get rave reviews and are right up there with KW V2s for me for my 130i next Spring
Mine lasted 35K miles
Not in terms of gas or oil leaks, but sleeve bearings wearing out allowing the damper body to contact the shaft, chipping chunks of chrome off in the process. That kind of wear is unavoidable with monotubes, but AST and Bilstein are capable of making theirs last longer than that! Quite poor really given they never saw a track and are designed for road use.They have made some improvements with subsequent revisions to the set I had, but as with Koni, never again!
Gaz bent over backwards for me. Julian at BalanceMotorsport crunched the numbers for me, and Gaz made the kit.....for a car that wasn't even in their catalogue at the time. The ride was superb, as was the damping. I thought Gaz only offered kits for early Bimmers like E30s and E36s? They might make a set for you though? It was years ago I had mine, 2007 ish.
rottenegg said:
God only knows. Only their Motorsport stuff is made in Sweden and gets the best attention and quality. The consumer stuff was farmed out to a factory owned by Yamaha in Japan. You would rightly assume the quality would be there being Japanese, but apparently not!
Mine lasted 35K miles Not in terms of gas or oil leaks, but sleeve bearings wearing out allowing the damper body to contact the shaft, chipping chunks of chrome off in the process. That kind of wear is unavoidable with monotubes, but AST and Bilstein are capable of making theirs last longer than that! Quite poor really given they never saw a track and are designed for road use.
They have made some improvements with subsequent revisions to the set I had, but as with Koni, never again!
Gaz bent over backwards for me. Julian at BalanceMotorsport crunched the numbers for me, and Gaz made the kit.....for a car that wasn't even in their catalogue at the time. The ride was superb, as was the damping. I thought Gaz only offered kits for early Bimmers like E30s and E36s? They might make a set for you though? It was years ago I had mine, 2007 ish.
Yup; GAZ make coilovers for the E81 / E87 etc - that's why they're on my radarMine lasted 35K miles
Not in terms of gas or oil leaks, but sleeve bearings wearing out allowing the damper body to contact the shaft, chipping chunks of chrome off in the process. That kind of wear is unavoidable with monotubes, but AST and Bilstein are capable of making theirs last longer than that! Quite poor really given they never saw a track and are designed for road use.They have made some improvements with subsequent revisions to the set I had, but as with Koni, never again!
Gaz bent over backwards for me. Julian at BalanceMotorsport crunched the numbers for me, and Gaz made the kit.....for a car that wasn't even in their catalogue at the time. The ride was superb, as was the damping. I thought Gaz only offered kits for early Bimmers like E30s and E36s? They might make a set for you though? It was years ago I had mine, 2007 ish.
I cannot stand Koni; had plenty of issues with them in the past, never again
rottenegg said:
Eibach Pro springs with another set of Bilsteins would be my choice. Rake shifted and damping performance restored.
I think the tempation with older cars is to go too stiff because we've forgotten what the car drove like when it was new, but just needs the standard stuff refreshing in most cases to get the handling and comfort back.
You might want to get any rotten bushes replaced as well. They dry rot on low mileage cars, and wear out on well used cars.
Thanks. That what I considered initially. I just wasn't sure between them and H&R OE Sport or Sport springs which would give the best compromise between stance, ride comfort and handling for the factory dampers.I think the tempation with older cars is to go too stiff because we've forgotten what the car drove like when it was new, but just needs the standard stuff refreshing in most cases to get the handling and comfort back.
You might want to get any rotten bushes replaced as well. They dry rot on low mileage cars, and wear out on well used cars.
Edited by J.R.Slider on Thursday 21st November 07:04
danb79 said:
Absolutely...
My pals own Grinspeed up this way (Preston, Lancs) and they'd be a good bet for you if you're interested in a road trip. They make their own coilovers too FYI. Could be worth speaking to
They'd do all you need inc the set up
Sounds good. Don't mind going a bit further to get it dialed in properly.My pals own Grinspeed up this way (Preston, Lancs) and they'd be a good bet for you if you're interested in a road trip. They make their own coilovers too FYI. Could be worth speaking to
They'd do all you need inc the set up
rottenegg said:
I normally steer clear of lowering springs but the Eibach Pros really are a zero compromise upgrade! Partnered with some good dampers, it's even better
I had KW V3s in my long and distant past on a VW, and whilst the stainless INOX build quality is the best in the business, the spring and damping rates weren't to my tastes. Too much spring rate, not enough damping, so bouncy bouncy on B roads. I like tight and responsive damping with less spring rate
The only time I ever got that from coilovers was with Gaz Golds (superb) and Ohlins DFV (even more superb), but the cost benefit is very questionable in the case of the Ohlins, and they don't last very long either.
Have done some reading on the V3 and Ohlins. They both seem great. I think the V3s are twintube and double adjustable which I'd definitely need some professional help with dialing in, and the Ohlins seem prohibitively expensive for the e36 chassis. If they aren’t as durable as the other brands then that could be a headache in the long term having the suspension apart for regular rebuilds. Are the PSS9 comparable in performance to the others?I had KW V3s in my long and distant past on a VW, and whilst the stainless INOX build quality is the best in the business, the spring and damping rates weren't to my tastes. Too much spring rate, not enough damping, so bouncy bouncy on B roads. I like tight and responsive damping with less spring rate
The only time I ever got that from coilovers was with Gaz Golds (superb) and Ohlins DFV (even more superb), but the cost benefit is very questionable in the case of the Ohlins, and they don't last very long either.
J.R.Slider said:
Have done some reading on the V3 and Ohlins. They both seem great. I think the V3s are twintube and double adjustable which I'd definitely need some professional help with dialing in, and the Ohlins seem prohibitively expensive for the e36 chassis. If they aren’t as durable as the other brands then that could be a headache in the long term having the suspension apart for regular rebuilds. Are the PSS9 comparable in performance to the others?
I wouldn't go H&R; far too stiff for our roadsKWs or their ST equivalents, or GAZ, IMO, would be best bet. But, BCs are very good, have been around a long time and you can get custom spring rates too (can't do that with KWs)... Worth looking into and it's easy enough to keep them clean & corrosion free
Bilstein B16s are superb coilovers; but they can be very stiff and very bouncy on every day road driving I found
They're also £2k plus for my E81, I've ruled the out on that basis
J.R.Slider said:
Apologies first of all. I know this topic may have been covered before, but I think the suspension game has moved on a bit since the last threads were active.
So I have an E36 328i Sport with the Avus suspension. It's is a good compromise, but I am after a setup that eliminates some of the reverse rake and makes for a more neutral balance before I look into ARBs and LSDs.
I did consider Eibach or H&R lowering springs and some fine tuning with the help of spring pads, but ultimately the need for some dampening adjustment is a big factor as well.
A reputable specialist did question why I haven't gone the coilovers route as yet and I responded for fear of ballsing up a set up that was tuned by the M-division.
The main things I'm looking for would be monotube dampers similar to the current setup, a galvanised or stainless thread to combat rust and a damper that preferably uses the factory top mounts as I think pillow ball mounts, adjustability aside, may be a bit harsh.
Where would your money go?
Stick with what you have. The Bilsteins fitted are spot on and even now you may find they are still very strong if a bit rusty. They have internal bump stops. They aren't silly expensive either, about £350 a pair the last time I bought some. They're B8 Sprints btw.So I have an E36 328i Sport with the Avus suspension. It's is a good compromise, but I am after a setup that eliminates some of the reverse rake and makes for a more neutral balance before I look into ARBs and LSDs.
I did consider Eibach or H&R lowering springs and some fine tuning with the help of spring pads, but ultimately the need for some dampening adjustment is a big factor as well.
A reputable specialist did question why I haven't gone the coilovers route as yet and I responded for fear of ballsing up a set up that was tuned by the M-division.
The main things I'm looking for would be monotube dampers similar to the current setup, a galvanised or stainless thread to combat rust and a damper that preferably uses the factory top mounts as I think pillow ball mounts, adjustability aside, may be a bit harsh.
Where would your money go?
Springs - I'd be surprised if you can buy them new from BMW but failing that, Eibach or H&R, no more than 35 mm. Or just blast/powder coat the originals.
One of the best mods you can make is fitting a Z3 rack, knocking about a turn off the ratio. It's a straight swap and really sharpens it up. The purple tag E46 rack is almost as good. You should already have the offset front wishbone rear bushes (lollipops) to give a bit more castor angle. E36 M3 top mounts give more negative camber but I'd spend the money on Eibach anti roll bars instead.
Polyurethane rear trailing arm bushes are worth considering but tbh, standard BMW ones are fine. Go for the proper ones not the cheap ones with slots in the outer casing.
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