BMW E36 vs E46 - to a complete noob
Discussion
Having owned BMWs since 2010 (E38, x4 E39s, E65, F01 and now F31) I've never owned a manual BMW...
The wife's landed a new job and will be commuting more, but on the motorway too; so she's going to be taking the F31 on, I'll sell the Racing Jazz on and then look for my next project car/weekend toy and my ideas are aiming towards a manual BMW, along the lines of an E46 330i M Sport, possibly an E36 328i M Sport (and I've even though along the lines of an EP3 or FN2 CTR seeing as I'm good pals with Stevie/Don at Grinspeed and they know these cars inside out)...
I've thought about another E39 530i Sport, but finding a manual one is hard work and those that are out there are either dogs or laughably overpriced. May consider an E9x 330i too (not a vert) - so E90, 91 and 92 maybe
What I'm looking for are thoughts on the E36 vs E46 (saloon or touring ideally, maybe a coupe) from those in the know - I know the M52 engine and M54 engine very well indeed, so no issues there. I know there's a power difference; but this is to be a weekend / evening car for me to have some fun in and enjoy rebuilding to my levels of OCD (basically full suspension, brakes & cooling system overhaul to begin with), but keeping it fully OEM as best as I can, road legal and still comfy for when required
I know both have potential to fizz in. the rain, so I'll be aiming for as least corroded a car that I can find, ideally from an enthusiast that's looked after it well... Not worried about higher mileage cars etc, as long as its been looked after and there's paperwork to prove
Thinking budget of c£10k, so up to £6/7k for the car and rest for mods/necessary work etc
Any thoughts / additions?
The wife's landed a new job and will be commuting more, but on the motorway too; so she's going to be taking the F31 on, I'll sell the Racing Jazz on and then look for my next project car/weekend toy and my ideas are aiming towards a manual BMW, along the lines of an E46 330i M Sport, possibly an E36 328i M Sport (and I've even though along the lines of an EP3 or FN2 CTR seeing as I'm good pals with Stevie/Don at Grinspeed and they know these cars inside out)...
I've thought about another E39 530i Sport, but finding a manual one is hard work and those that are out there are either dogs or laughably overpriced. May consider an E9x 330i too (not a vert) - so E90, 91 and 92 maybe
What I'm looking for are thoughts on the E36 vs E46 (saloon or touring ideally, maybe a coupe) from those in the know - I know the M52 engine and M54 engine very well indeed, so no issues there. I know there's a power difference; but this is to be a weekend / evening car for me to have some fun in and enjoy rebuilding to my levels of OCD (basically full suspension, brakes & cooling system overhaul to begin with), but keeping it fully OEM as best as I can, road legal and still comfy for when required
I know both have potential to fizz in. the rain, so I'll be aiming for as least corroded a car that I can find, ideally from an enthusiast that's looked after it well... Not worried about higher mileage cars etc, as long as its been looked after and there's paperwork to prove
Thinking budget of c£10k, so up to £6/7k for the car and rest for mods/necessary work etc
Any thoughts / additions?
E46's are a nice car, like a scaled down E39 in many ways. To me they were the start of where BMW are now, niceness, electronic throttles and a quick ratio steering rack to mask the weight increase. Dunno, I just thought they were a bit too 'nice'.
If you can find a genuinely good one (you will need 10 grand), an E36 328i Sport is far more like it. They are so much more alive and visceral in the way they feel and drive. The dash is very dated, but they were launched when Montegos and Sierras were still being made. One with a few choice mods - light flywheel, M50 manifold etc - will be better still.
A really good one, diligently maintained (they are piss easy to work on - far more so than E46 and E39 stuff) will retain it's value and increase enough to cover your costs.
If you can find a genuinely good one (you will need 10 grand), an E36 328i Sport is far more like it. They are so much more alive and visceral in the way they feel and drive. The dash is very dated, but they were launched when Montegos and Sierras were still being made. One with a few choice mods - light flywheel, M50 manifold etc - will be better still.
A really good one, diligently maintained (they are piss easy to work on - far more so than E46 and E39 stuff) will retain it's value and increase enough to cover your costs.
Edited by The Conflated Outlier on Sunday 14th July 19:15
It sounds like E46s were more refined than E36s so maybe it depends what you prefer. But you might find an early E46 328i without the drive by wire.
My only concern with both would be rust which is why I've now got a manual E90 330i, but it is much more refined than my E46 was! And has more electronics.
My only concern with both would be rust which is why I've now got a manual E90 330i, but it is much more refined than my E46 was! And has more electronics.
Been looking at e46's too. I had one for 7 years. Loved it, went everywhere in it - continent, all over uk, etc. Sold it for an F10, which obviously the better car but never got under my skin the way the e46 did. Rust is the only thing. Oh and boot floor cracks. And actually now I think of it mine had a crack where the inner wheel arch joins the bulk head at the front. Oh and mushrooming inner strut towers. Easy fix, wack em with a brick and block of wood, and then installed the rough road plates.
Mine was a 323i with the m52tub25 engine, manual. Had all the usual stuff like cooling system, cam cover, ofh gaskets, vanos rings, breathers. Never used oil though in fairness, ran it to 185k and sold it for the F10, now long gone. E46 look tiny these days..
Mine was a 323i with the m52tub25 engine, manual. Had all the usual stuff like cooling system, cam cover, ofh gaskets, vanos rings, breathers. Never used oil though in fairness, ran it to 185k and sold it for the F10, now long gone. E46 look tiny these days..
If rust is a concern, and it ought to be for both models, the E46 compact doesn't seem to suffer from corrosion anything like as much as the other bodystyles. It doesn't seem to have the rear subframe / body cracking issues either. And you'd get a top spec car in excellent condition for significantly less than 10k.
If not that, then for me it's the E36 - they are getting rare in standard form, and in good unrusted condition - so keep it nice and it'll only go up in value. I wouldn't underestimate the ease of working on them and lack of complexity either. More time driving it and keeping it in good nick, less time chasing issues and replacing complex bits and pieces.
If not that, then for me it's the E36 - they are getting rare in standard form, and in good unrusted condition - so keep it nice and it'll only go up in value. I wouldn't underestimate the ease of working on them and lack of complexity either. More time driving it and keeping it in good nick, less time chasing issues and replacing complex bits and pieces.
Having had both a E36 328i sport (coupe) and currently in an E46 330i (saloon) here are my thoughts.
The E36 was much more raw, less sound deadening and build quality was not great. Mine was quite modified (fully polybushed, M3 LSD, Bilstein B8s and Eibach Springs etc) so that may have made it feel like that.
Having gone from a new car back to the E46, it felt like, sounded like and smelt like my E36 and that sold me on buying it (definately heart over head decision).
The E46 interior is way better, it's miles more comfortable on long drives, it's faster and way better on fuel.
The E36 looked better (Techno violet with the BBS RC041/42 split rims) but that's more personal.
IMO the E46 is the sweet spot (E39 too) of modern/classic BMWs. Still has hydraulic power steering, controls are solid and fairly heavy but has the comfort and enough tech that it's not too outdated. The dials are so easy to read, there are no silly screens etc.
Parts for the E36 are getting more expensive now and prices in general are going up. Plus it's a waste of a good E36 328i sport to turn it into a track car.
The E36 was much more raw, less sound deadening and build quality was not great. Mine was quite modified (fully polybushed, M3 LSD, Bilstein B8s and Eibach Springs etc) so that may have made it feel like that.
Having gone from a new car back to the E46, it felt like, sounded like and smelt like my E36 and that sold me on buying it (definately heart over head decision).
The E46 interior is way better, it's miles more comfortable on long drives, it's faster and way better on fuel.
The E36 looked better (Techno violet with the BBS RC041/42 split rims) but that's more personal.
IMO the E46 is the sweet spot (E39 too) of modern/classic BMWs. Still has hydraulic power steering, controls are solid and fairly heavy but has the comfort and enough tech that it's not too outdated. The dials are so easy to read, there are no silly screens etc.
Parts for the E36 are getting more expensive now and prices in general are going up. Plus it's a waste of a good E36 328i sport to turn it into a track car.
The Conflated Outlier said:
E46's are a nice car, like a scaled down E39 in many ways. To me they were the start of where BMW are now, niceness, electronic throttles and a quick ratio steering rack to mask the weight increase. Dunno, I just thought they were a bit too 'nice'.
If you can find a genuinely good one (you will need 10 grand), an E36 328i Sport is far more like it. They are so much more alive and visceral in the way they feel and drive. The dash is very dated, but they were launched when Montegos and Sierras were still being made. One with a few choice mods - light flywheel, M50 manifold etc - will be better still.
A really good one, diligently maintained (they are piss easy to work on - far more so than E46 and E39 stuff) will retain it's value and increase enough to cover your costs.
Thanks for that and I agree; that's why the E46 is probably the one I'd go for - I did own an E46 for all of 6 months in mid 2009, only a 318i but it was a lovely car and one owner from new (elderly gentleman); it hardly got used so sold it on and then early 2010 bought my E38If you can find a genuinely good one (you will need 10 grand), an E36 328i Sport is far more like it. They are so much more alive and visceral in the way they feel and drive. The dash is very dated, but they were launched when Montegos and Sierras were still being made. One with a few choice mods - light flywheel, M50 manifold etc - will be better still.
A really good one, diligently maintained (they are piss easy to work on - far more so than E46 and E39 stuff) will retain it's value and increase enough to cover your costs.
Edited by The Conflated Outlier on Sunday 14th July 19:15
What I don't want to do is, like you said, spend £10k on a car and then start from there
I'm very used to working with E39s, so thr E46 wouldn't be an issue and makes the most sense that way etc...
Mr Tidy said:
It sounds like E46s were more refined than E36s so maybe it depends what you prefer. But you might find an early E46 328i without the drive by wire.
My only concern with both would be rust which is why I've now got a manual E90 330i, but it is much more refined than my E46 was! And has more electronics.
Agree; and the E9x are an idea as well; it'll all come down to what's out there, when I start looking, which realistically is going to be September/October timeMy only concern with both would be rust which is why I've now got a manual E90 330i, but it is much more refined than my E46 was! And has more electronics.
Dannbodge said:
Having had both a E36 328i sport (coupe) and currently in an E46 330i (saloon) here are my thoughts.
The E36 was much more raw, less sound deadening and build quality was not great. Mine was quite modified (fully polybushed, M3 LSD, Bilstein B8s and Eibach Springs etc) so that may have made it feel like that.
Having gone from a new car back to the E46, it felt like, sounded like and smelt like my E36 and that sold me on buying it (definately heart over head decision).
The E46 interior is way better, it's miles more comfortable on long drives, it's faster and way better on fuel.
The E36 looked better (Techno violet with the BBS RC041/42 split rims) but that's more personal.
IMO the E46 is the sweet spot (E39 too) of modern/classic BMWs. Still has hydraulic power steering, controls are solid and fairly heavy but has the comfort and enough tech that it's not too outdated. The dials are so easy to read, there are no silly screens etc.
Parts for the E36 are getting more expensive now and prices in general are going up. Plus it's a waste of a good E36 328i sport to turn it into a track car.
Cheers for that insight... The comparison to thr E39 is what wins me over for the E46. I've always loved their looks, more so in touring form; they just seem to sit so wellThe E36 was much more raw, less sound deadening and build quality was not great. Mine was quite modified (fully polybushed, M3 LSD, Bilstein B8s and Eibach Springs etc) so that may have made it feel like that.
Having gone from a new car back to the E46, it felt like, sounded like and smelt like my E36 and that sold me on buying it (definately heart over head decision).
The E46 interior is way better, it's miles more comfortable on long drives, it's faster and way better on fuel.
The E36 looked better (Techno violet with the BBS RC041/42 split rims) but that's more personal.
IMO the E46 is the sweet spot (E39 too) of modern/classic BMWs. Still has hydraulic power steering, controls are solid and fairly heavy but has the comfort and enough tech that it's not too outdated. The dials are so easy to read, there are no silly screens etc.
Parts for the E36 are getting more expensive now and prices in general are going up. Plus it's a waste of a good E36 328i sport to turn it into a track car.
It’d be an E46 for me.
I don’t think the E36 has aged anywhere near as well. The E39/38/46 is the era of peak BMW for me. They have a habit of getting a bit crusty but they’re very, very pretty and well designed cars. Inside and out is nice.
They’re easy to work on and still have a decent supply of parts.
I don’t think the E36 has aged anywhere near as well. The E39/38/46 is the era of peak BMW for me. They have a habit of getting a bit crusty but they’re very, very pretty and well designed cars. Inside and out is nice.
They’re easy to work on and still have a decent supply of parts.
Court_S said:
It’d be an E46 for me.
I don’t think the E36 has aged anywhere near as well. The E39/38/46 is the era of peak BMW for me. They have a habit of getting a bit crusty but they’re very, very pretty and well designed cars. Inside and out is nice.
They’re easy to work on and still have a decent supply of parts.
Cheers SamI don’t think the E36 has aged anywhere near as well. The E39/38/46 is the era of peak BMW for me. They have a habit of getting a bit crusty but they’re very, very pretty and well designed cars. Inside and out is nice.
They’re easy to work on and still have a decent supply of parts.
The E46 does make more sense...
As long as I can find an example that's been looked after, maintained well and hasn't much corrosion then that's fine; I know the folk needed to sort stuff like that
I'd rather pay more for the right example from off, rather than trying to bring one back from the brink of the canning factory
d_a_n1979 said:
Mr Tidy said:
It sounds like E46s were more refined than E36s so maybe it depends what you prefer. But you might find an early E46 328i without the drive by wire.
My only concern with both would be rust which is why I've now got a manual E90 330i, but it is much more refined than my E46 was! And has more electronics.
Agree; and the E9x are an idea as well; it'll all come down to what's out there, when I start looking, which realistically is going to be September/October timeMy only concern with both would be rust which is why I've now got a manual E90 330i, but it is much more refined than my E46 was! And has more electronics.
If you do look at an E90 I'd recommend sticking to early ones with the N52 engine as the later N53 has quite a few more potential issues. And the early ones still have Hydraulic PAS.
DJMC said:
Had both.
One E36 318i - rubbish, horrible thing.
Three E46's 316i saloon; 325ci; 330ci MSport.
The e46 is far nicer, lovely to drive, and the 330i engine a peach.
No contest.
Yup; had x3 E39 530i Sport with the M54 30i engine and it's a superb motor; exactly why I'd only be going for that variant in an E46 One E36 318i - rubbish, horrible thing.
Three E46's 316i saloon; 325ci; 330ci MSport.
The e46 is far nicer, lovely to drive, and the 330i engine a peach.
No contest.
If I go for an E46...Mr Tidy said:
d_a_n1979 said:
Mr Tidy said:
It sounds like E46s were more refined than E36s so maybe it depends what you prefer. But you might find an early E46 328i without the drive by wire.
My only concern with both would be rust which is why I've now got a manual E90 330i, but it is much more refined than my E46 was! And has more electronics.
Agree; and the E9x are an idea as well; it'll all come down to what's out there, when I start looking, which realistically is going to be September/October timeMy only concern with both would be rust which is why I've now got a manual E90 330i, but it is much more refined than my E46 was! And has more electronics.
If you do look at an E90 I'd recommend sticking to early ones with the N52 engine as the later N53 has quite a few more potential issues. And the early ones still have Hydraulic PAS.
And re the E9x cars; more research needed but I'm not sure I'd want to go for an early one unless it's an absolute peach with a good spec etc
Mr Tidy said:
It sounds like E46s were more refined than E36s so maybe it depends what you prefer. But you might find an early E46 328i without the drive by wire.
My only concern with both would be rust which is why I've now got a manual E90 330i, but it is much more refined than my E46 was! And has more electronics.
The E46 328i has both cable and motor for throttle. A good E46 is a great drive. Most however are rusty and worn out. I know most Pistonheads users prefer petrol. Having owned both versions of the E46 I prefer the 330d to 330i. This is because it uses a lot less fuel and accelerates quicker. My only concern with both would be rust which is why I've now got a manual E90 330i, but it is much more refined than my E46 was! And has more electronics.
helix403 said:
Mr Tidy said:
It sounds like E46s were more refined than E36s so maybe it depends what you prefer. But you might find an early E46 328i without the drive by wire.
My only concern with both would be rust which is why I've now got a manual E90 330i, but it is much more refined than my E46 was! And has more electronics.
The E46 328i has both cable and motor for throttle. A good E46 is a great drive. Most however are rusty and worn out. I know most Pistonheads users prefer petrol. Having owned both versions of the E46 I prefer the 330d to 330i. This is because it uses a lot less fuel and accelerates quicker. My only concern with both would be rust which is why I've now got a manual E90 330i, but it is much more refined than my E46 was! And has more electronics.
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