E91 335i Suspension Refresh / Recommended shocks / springs?
Discussion
This is my 2007 335i M-Sport Touring.
I've owned it for 2 years, its done 2 trips to Scotland, taken me to Southern France and across Germany, a couple of days smashing it around Cadwell and just general daily duty. Its generally a pretty fantastic all arounder. Considering the N54s reputation, I must have got lucky, as other than turbo wastegate rattle that I needed to get fixed, I've just done routine maintenance.
The only thing I don't like is the 6 speed Auto.
Anyway, its now on 110k miles & the suspension is feeling very worn, crashy on bumps, not as planted as it was, a tendency to have to make constant small corrections when driving in a straight line, it needs a refresh.
I did buy a Golf GTD with the intention to sell the BMW and save on fuel (I do a good few miles), but honestly, that 4 pot diesel is just a tractor compared to the N54, its not as fun to drive, the steering feels quite dead, and if I sell it then I'll only regret it, being a fairly rare combo (Touring N54) I'd struggle to get another.
So my plan now is to refresh the suspension on the E91 and then sell on the Golf.
Along those lines does anyone have any recommendations for a good shock / spring combo? Preferably from personal experience.
I've found a lot of generic advice online, but I often get the impression that its not from an enthusiast, or someone that cares much past slamming it or making it stiffer, I'm after something that works well on the road, but can stand up to the odd track day.
I know the Birds kit has a good reputation, but its always good to see what else is out there.
Currently its on the bog standard M-Sport setup. (Albeit probably very worn out)
I've owned it for 2 years, its done 2 trips to Scotland, taken me to Southern France and across Germany, a couple of days smashing it around Cadwell and just general daily duty. Its generally a pretty fantastic all arounder. Considering the N54s reputation, I must have got lucky, as other than turbo wastegate rattle that I needed to get fixed, I've just done routine maintenance.
The only thing I don't like is the 6 speed Auto.
Anyway, its now on 110k miles & the suspension is feeling very worn, crashy on bumps, not as planted as it was, a tendency to have to make constant small corrections when driving in a straight line, it needs a refresh.
I did buy a Golf GTD with the intention to sell the BMW and save on fuel (I do a good few miles), but honestly, that 4 pot diesel is just a tractor compared to the N54, its not as fun to drive, the steering feels quite dead, and if I sell it then I'll only regret it, being a fairly rare combo (Touring N54) I'd struggle to get another.
So my plan now is to refresh the suspension on the E91 and then sell on the Golf.
Along those lines does anyone have any recommendations for a good shock / spring combo? Preferably from personal experience.
I've found a lot of generic advice online, but I often get the impression that its not from an enthusiast, or someone that cares much past slamming it or making it stiffer, I'm after something that works well on the road, but can stand up to the odd track day.
I know the Birds kit has a good reputation, but its always good to see what else is out there.
Currently its on the bog standard M-Sport setup. (Albeit probably very worn out)
The Birds kit is supposed to be superb; I seriously considered it for my F31 - but at c£1300 it's expensive for what it is IMO
I've fitted Bilstein B4S shocks with Eibach pro kit springs to my F31 as part of a FULL suspension overhaul (literally every part) - the car drives & handles superbly and the OEM M Sport harshness has gone. Yes the B4S shocks are firmer, but only slightly; but they ride better, take rough roads better and glide over potholes etc
You may not be going to the depths I did for my F31; but I can highly recommend the B4S shocks and Eibach pro kit springs
I was lucky enough to test drive an F31 that had the B12 kit fitted (too firm); and the Bilstein B14 coilovers (superb on fast windy country roads, but far too bouncy when driving at normal speeds on normal roads etc)
This is how my F31 sits currently - it's level all round now and doesn't bottom out at all
I've fitted Bilstein B4S shocks with Eibach pro kit springs to my F31 as part of a FULL suspension overhaul (literally every part) - the car drives & handles superbly and the OEM M Sport harshness has gone. Yes the B4S shocks are firmer, but only slightly; but they ride better, take rough roads better and glide over potholes etc
You may not be going to the depths I did for my F31; but I can highly recommend the B4S shocks and Eibach pro kit springs
I was lucky enough to test drive an F31 that had the B12 kit fitted (too firm); and the Bilstein B14 coilovers (superb on fast windy country roads, but far too bouncy when driving at normal speeds on normal roads etc)
This is how my F31 sits currently - it's level all round now and doesn't bottom out at all
Cheers guys, the Birds kit does pretty much fit the bill of what I want from a car, but like you mentioned, its a bit costly for what it is.
I'll read your 335d thread.
Maybe I'll look into the Eibach Pro kit, I've actually had that on an old 4th Gen Civic in the past & it worked quite well.
I'll read your 335d thread.
Maybe I'll look into the Eibach Pro kit, I've actually had that on an old 4th Gen Civic in the past & it worked quite well.
christhreadgill said:
You can’t go wrong with birds. Have it on my 335i with a FULL suspension & subframe refresh.
You equally can’t go wrong with B4s and some eibachs as others have mentioned.
Just don’t do the shocks/springs, do the arms, subframe bushes etc also.
Fully agree; IMO this is paramountYou equally can’t go wrong with B4s and some eibachs as others have mentioned.
Just don’t do the shocks/springs, do the arms, subframe bushes etc also.
That's why I did my F31 as a job lot (well, my pals did) + the full tracking/alignment and a fast road set up
New top mounts, dust boots, bump stops, spring perches etc all round
If it's going to get done IMO, get it done properly
MiddayGun said:
Cheers guys, the Birds kit does pretty much fit the bill of what I want from a car, but like you mentioned, its a bit costly for what it is.
I'll read your 335d thread.
Maybe I'll look into the Eibach Pro kit, I've actually had that on an old 4th Gen Civic in the past & it worked quite well.
It is a superb kit; been out in a pals 140i with the Birds suspension and its superbI'll read your 335d thread.
Maybe I'll look into the Eibach Pro kit, I've actually had that on an old 4th Gen Civic in the past & it worked quite well.
But even Chris said it's hard to tell the difference between the Birds kit and his F31 with Bilstein shocks and Eibach pro kit springs until he's absolutely on it...
He's stupidly fitted a B12 kit to his E39 M5 and regretted it after 2 weeks (it's been away for a full engine rebuild and they'd ordered a set and the customer dropped out) - just too firm. He's refitting OEM Sachs with Eibach pro kit springs as soon as he's back from Germany
Birds was too pricey for me with me doing such low miles (c4k a year if I'm lucky); so the B4S / Eibach combo ticks a lot of boxes
Cheers for all the input.
Exactly what I'm after. often when I hear a car handles great after x mod, the guy lives in central London or only cares about slamming it. Or equates terrible ride comfort with good handling.
I prefer a more holistic approach than just going for stiffer springs.
Agreed with everything about the arms, on my old 1 series I went through that process, actually using the M3 arms for more camber, probably on this car, I'll replace with like for like. (on the arms at least)
Exactly what I'm after. often when I hear a car handles great after x mod, the guy lives in central London or only cares about slamming it. Or equates terrible ride comfort with good handling.
I prefer a more holistic approach than just going for stiffer springs.
Agreed with everything about the arms, on my old 1 series I went through that process, actually using the M3 arms for more camber, probably on this car, I'll replace with like for like. (on the arms at least)
MiddayGun said:
Cheers guys, the Birds kit does pretty much fit the bill of what I want from a car, but like you mentioned, its a bit costly for what it is.
I'll read your 335d thread.
Maybe I'll look into the Eibach Pro kit, I've actually had that on an old 4th Gen Civic in the past & it worked quite well.
I fitted the B12 kit but found it still too firm. I sold it and bought the Birds kit. I'll read your 335d thread.
Maybe I'll look into the Eibach Pro kit, I've actually had that on an old 4th Gen Civic in the past & it worked quite well.
helix403 said:
I fitted the B12 kit but found it still too firm. I sold it and bought the Birds kit.
Just finished your thread, an interesting read, thanks! Do you still own the car?
Interesting that your 335D is barely any more economical than my 335i on a run. If I sit at 70 then I get around 33mpg. Around town probably mid twenties.
MiddayGun said:
Just finished your thread, an interesting read, thanks!
Do you still own the car?
Interesting that your 335D is barely any more economical than my 335i on a run. If I sit at 70 then I get around 33mpg. Around town probably mid twenties.
Still got the 335d. It’ll do 40mpg at 70, I get 28 average. Glad you enjoyed the thread. Decent E91s are quite rare these days. Do you still own the car?
Interesting that your 335D is barely any more economical than my 335i on a run. If I sit at 70 then I get around 33mpg. Around town probably mid twenties.
helix403 said:
Still got the 335d. It’ll do 40mpg at 70, I get 28 average. Glad you enjoyed the thread. Decent E91s are quite rare these days.
I'd previously had a 330D E91 M57 with a manual, fantastic car, unfortunately it was written off by a driver coming the wrong way down a slip road! I never did get what it was worth from the insurance, who wouldn't accept that it cost more to find a replacement with a manual. I'm always surprised the 335d doesn't manage better, I used to get about 50 on a long run at 70 out of the 330d. The Golf GTD will do about 53, but the engine sounds like a piece of farm machinery compared to the BMW straight 6.
My 335i was a Japanese import originally, in some ways I was quite fortunate as the previous owner spent a fortune fixing the common issues, and since then I've had a reliable 23k out of it.
Court_S said:
I’ve used B4S dampers with Eibach springs on various cars including my old E92 335i. I’d highly recommend popping in some M3 front arms whilst you’re at it. They’re not expensive from autodoc.
I did that to my old 123D many years ago, and I seem to remember the ride being quite crashy afterwords, I did it with a few thigns though, so I don't know if that was the main cause. So this time around I was thinking of sticking with the standard arms. My E91 335i has been running the full Birds kit, shocks, springs, anti roll bars, rear suspension bushes, M3 front arms and the quaife diff for just under 100k miles. I have also replaced some of the rear arms with M3 versions.
The ride and handling is really good, although I am on second set of shocks, first set only did 60k before I replaced them and when they need replacing I will replace with the same (of Birds still do them). I am running 313s (19inch) which definitely compromises the ride slightly, but worth it for the looks imo.
I will probably do a refresh soon, with new M3 front arms, top mounts etc but overall although not cheap, I would highly recommend the Birds kit.
The ride and handling is really good, although I am on second set of shocks, first set only did 60k before I replaced them and when they need replacing I will replace with the same (of Birds still do them). I am running 313s (19inch) which definitely compromises the ride slightly, but worth it for the looks imo.
I will probably do a refresh soon, with new M3 front arms, top mounts etc but overall although not cheap, I would highly recommend the Birds kit.
Man, you guys are swaying me towards the Birds kit now.
Although I think I'd need an LSD to take most advantage of it, (with the stiffer roll bars) I've been toying with a manual swap idea for some time now, and until I make my my mind up, I don't want buy an LSD as I think a manual swap would require a different diff. (Lower ratio)
Part of me says its silly to spend that kind of cash on a 17 year old car, but on the other hand, when I look at the market, I don't see what I could get that would do a better job than what I already have.
I'll price some bits up and mull it over for the next few days!
Although I think I'd need an LSD to take most advantage of it, (with the stiffer roll bars) I've been toying with a manual swap idea for some time now, and until I make my my mind up, I don't want buy an LSD as I think a manual swap would require a different diff. (Lower ratio)
Part of me says its silly to spend that kind of cash on a 17 year old car, but on the other hand, when I look at the market, I don't see what I could get that would do a better job than what I already have.
I'll price some bits up and mull it over for the next few days!
There are so many suspension options out there. Maybe KW will also be one worth consideration:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90...
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90...
So it looks like the Birds kit at current prices:
With Quaife Diff
£2788 (inc VAT)
Just the Springs / Shocks / Anti Roll bars
£1917.6 (after VAT)
So there is a saving for going for the whole package, as I think Quaife charge north of £1k for the diff now. (Although pricing could be outdated on the Birds website)
Though these are the prices for the parts, fitting them myself.
But I'm not sure if I can really justify basically £2k for some springs, shocks and roll bars. I fully agree with what people say, that these are almost certainly the best setup, but that price does stick in the throat a little bit!
When you consider that you can get a Bilstein B12 pro kit for £550 after VAT.
+ there's no point doing this without sorting out the worn arms & bushes, which could easily add another £500 onto that.
That said, the suspension is pretty worn now, so I might have to look at sticking with the standard M-Sport springs, replacing the shocks with standard spec shocks, (Bilstein B4) and sorting out all the bushings & worn arms.
That will at least get it back to OE level again (and I think I'm well below that now) and in the future I can decide if I want to take the next step.
This is always a dilemma with older cars, in the past I've done the full works, & sold the car a year later, and you never get close to recouping the cost.
With Quaife Diff
£2788 (inc VAT)
Just the Springs / Shocks / Anti Roll bars
£1917.6 (after VAT)
So there is a saving for going for the whole package, as I think Quaife charge north of £1k for the diff now. (Although pricing could be outdated on the Birds website)
Though these are the prices for the parts, fitting them myself.
But I'm not sure if I can really justify basically £2k for some springs, shocks and roll bars. I fully agree with what people say, that these are almost certainly the best setup, but that price does stick in the throat a little bit!
When you consider that you can get a Bilstein B12 pro kit for £550 after VAT.
+ there's no point doing this without sorting out the worn arms & bushes, which could easily add another £500 onto that.
That said, the suspension is pretty worn now, so I might have to look at sticking with the standard M-Sport springs, replacing the shocks with standard spec shocks, (Bilstein B4) and sorting out all the bushings & worn arms.
That will at least get it back to OE level again (and I think I'm well below that now) and in the future I can decide if I want to take the next step.
This is always a dilemma with older cars, in the past I've done the full works, & sold the car a year later, and you never get close to recouping the cost.
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