Has my car been tuned already? 440i

[Vince Noir]

Evening all,

Finally had time to take my recently acquired 2016 440i out for a run, and this is what the sports displays showed -



From reading around the forums, it seems like generally the car should be showing 320bhp or there abouts, clearly here it's showing closer to 400bhp.

There's no additional pops and bangs though, and there's no gear number shown in Drive, etc...

I've got it booked on with DD coding in the west Midlands in a week or so but now I'm not sure if it's already had it done.

Chime in with what you reckon

[Pizzaeatingking]

Power level is about the same as the MPPSK, I'm guessing thats not fitted?

[Vince Noir]

Sadly not, although I wish it had!

Standard exhaust, no engine plate and having searched the VIN it wasn't spec'd on this car.

The HP and Torque levels will go all the way to the red bugs when pushed which seem to indicate 400hp and 500nm.

Edited by Vince Noir on Wednesday 29th May 23:12

[M.F.D]

B58 engines generally make more power than stated. These can make well north of 400bhp with just software. Those dials will not be overly accurate either.

Take it to a decent rolling road or get someone to plug it in and talk to it is the best bet.

[silentbrown]

M.F.D said:

Those dials will not be overly accurate either.

I'm curious how that's measured. I assume It's based on speed sensor and rate of acceleration, with major assumptions about vehicle weight, wind speed, altitude, air pressure, etc...


Oh, and transmission losses, too.

[Comacchio]

On standard cars the dials should show 400 BHP and 480 NM. MPPSK they show 400 BHP and 560 NM.

I'd say on the face of it yours isn't MPPSK but has been given a custom map in the past.

[rottenegg]

silentbrown said:

M.F.D said:

Those dials will not be overly accurate either.

I'm curious how that's measured. I assume It's based on speed sensor and rate of acceleration, with major assumptions about vehicle weight, wind speed, altitude, air pressure, etc...


Oh, and transmission losses, too.

The Sports display appears to be pretty accurate, given some peoples' comparisons on dyno days.

The torque modelling maps calculate the figures using mass air flow, fuel quantity injected and rpm. Dyno figures are derived from math as well as power is just measured torque multiplied by rpm divided 5252.

Anyway, the OP's car is definitely remapped as upscaling the sports display is part of the process. Remapped with what exactly is anyone's guess. Not even BMW can tell you. Only that the software signature is different to what it left the factory with. Aftermarket tuners lock their maps out with copyright protection and can't be read by ECU interrogation software. It's for that reason why dealers do a data dump with engine warranty claims and send it to Munich for analysis. If the checksum is different - warranty denied immediately.

[Vince Noir]

Thanks for the valuable insight guys. In some instances almost full scale deflection has been had on these dials, especially on the Tq and it is incredibly fast on the motorway especially. It's booked in with DD who can hopefully at least break down the mystery somewhat.

I'm surprised it's mapped as the bodywork isn't modified, the exhaust is standard and the pops and bangs are minimal. But who knows what was on it before of course.

Lotus gave me the spiel about the previous owner being someone who serviced the car to the maximum and kept it as was from the factory, of course.

Let's see what the coder comes up with next week. All being said, I'm not unhappy it's quick!

[swansea v6]

My new to me 430D is similar, output should be 250bhp ish but on my power dials it swings around to 310bhp?

[Mirinjawbro]

Vince Noir said:

Evening all,

Finally had time to take my recently acquired 2016 440i out for a run, and this is what the sports displays showed -



From reading around the forums, it seems like generally the car should be showing 320bhp or there abouts, clearly here it's showing closer to 400bhp.

There's no additional pops and bangs though, and there's no gear number shown in Drive, etc...

I've got it booked on with DD coding in the west Midlands in a week or so but now I'm not sure if it's already had it done.

Chime in with what you reckon

i believe it has.

my dials all changed after tuning and i believe stock figures would not show those.

[silentbrown]

rottenegg said:

The Sports display appears to be pretty accurate, given some peoples' comparisons on dyno days.

The torque modelling maps calculate the figures using mass air flow, fuel quantity injected and rpm.

Thanks, interesting. Any scope for unscrupulous tuners to tweak these so the display shows more power than they're actually delivering?

ETA: I suppose it makes the "I had no idea my car was mapped" excuse seem a bit lame if there's a disputed insurance claim...

[rottenegg]

swansea v6 said:

My new to me 430D is similar, output should be 250bhp ish but on my power dials it swings around to 310bhp?

Standard Sports display on the 30d is 240KW (320hp) and 560nm (413lbft).

Mine is standard and it only goes round to 190KW(258hp) but it hits 560nm all the time.

If yours is hitting 310hp, it's been mapped.

[rottenegg]

silentbrown said:

rottenegg said:

The Sports display appears to be pretty accurate, given some peoples' comparisons on dyno days.

The torque modelling maps calculate the figures using mass air flow, fuel quantity injected and rpm.

Thanks, interesting. Any scope for unscrupulous tuners to tweak these so the display shows more power than they're actually delivering?

ETA: I suppose it makes the "I had no idea my car was mapped" excuse seem a bit lame if there's a disputed insurance claim...

Nah. They can upscale the display and do nothing else, but the engine will still only swing round on the gauge as far as the power it's making. They can't manipulate that calculation.

Indeed. That's why you need to think carefully before getting a remap because they will know for sure. A lot of tuners claim the map is invisible to BMW, which is technically true, but what they can't hide is the fact the ECU has been manipulated. I have heard of people getting warranty rejections who genuinely didn't know the engine was mapped. German car makers take a tough stance on it.

[Oilchange]

I’m just surprised they put hp and not PS on a German car!

[oceanview]

Sorry for thread derail but, does anyone know why the M1/240I have higher quoted power and torque figures, as standard?

M140i- 335bhp/369ib/ft.

3/440i-320bhp/332ib/ft.

[dhibbert]

oceanview said:

Sorry for thread derail but, does anyone know why the M1/240I have higher quoted power and torque figures, as standard?

M140i- 335bhp/369ib/ft.

3/440i-320bhp/332ib/ft.

Yes, I’d like to know if this is true. As in if they do actually have the same output and the quoted differences are just for model placement reasons.

I couldn’t find any real info online, only the rumour that B58 engines usually throw out more power than officially stated.

[MarkJS]

The M140i officially produces 340bhp. The 3/440i officially produces 326bhp. M (and a map) is the difference here as in the M140i is seen as an M lite car (breathed on by M Division) whereas the 3/440i is not - they’re a normal BMW. But both obviously share the B58 & ZF8.

In saying all of that, I am convinced that my mechanically standard 440i produces more than the 326bhp quoted when I compare it to other cars I’ve driven/owned.

Edited by MarkJS on Sunday 2nd June 16:19

[Vince Noir]

Adam at DD was very helpful. There were no indications that the DME had been modded or tampered with although there were a few old, random stored fault codes; the only interesting one being something to do with the rolling road mode having been activated some time in the past.

In the end I've had MHD stage 1 loaded, xHP stage 2 (they recommended stage 3 but I won't be putting this car on a track or anything so elected to only go to stage 2 having researched a bit online), and a few interior and lighting codes. The result - now it really is rapid.

You're required to drive gently for 40 miles while the box re-learns after the xHP coding which I duly did for 55 miles just to be sure. Later I took it out for a run on the A46 and was taken aback by the change. Planting it from 30mph, the car required a little bit of input to track in a straight line, such was the acceleration... might have been crappy road surface related, or the amount of Tq going through the standard diff? I don't know but it's genuinely faster.

Interestingly though, the gauges still report the same amount of HP and Tq... No idea what the craic there is.

Specs from DD -

STAGE 1 ENGINE MAP 440 BHP / 580 NM - vmax removed - Sports displays calibration - start up roar enabled - exhaust flaps fully open in sport - Pops/bangs in sport/Sport+ mode

STAGE 2 xHP GEARBOX - Added Gear Display in D-Mode - Removed Torque Limiters - Raised Line-Pressure mapping for high-input torque - Reconfigured DEC Logic, with similar logic as in M-Cars (access to more shifting-modes) - Automatic Shift-Mode upscaling under WOT (Trans chooses fastest shift mode on full throttle) - Recalibrated Shift-Points in D Mode to improve throttle response - No automatic upshifting in M/Sport+ setting - DTC and DSC OFF activate the fastest shifting mode - Launch Control improved - Retains full ECO - Mode functionality including Coasting

CODING | seat belt beep 5 sec | stop start memory | door led on in reverse | rear drl enabled | fogs as welcome lights | fog cornering lights enabled | digital speedo | M performance logo cluster | M performance idrive boot screen | M sports displays | idrive speedlocks removed | alarm beep enabled | drl lights on off via idrive | tyre temperature and psi both display | xvid vcd ogg mp4 codec playback enabled | dvd in motion | video via usb | pseudo engine noise in cabin removed



Just need to crack on with paint corrections and fitting android auto now 👍 thanks for all the advice and info, everyone

[Wills2]

Well above the torque limits of the ZF8 HP50 in the car, but I guess it'll be fine if you don't hammer it everywhere.