Dilemma about changing transmission fluid on my F15 30D

[RockDriver]

I'm taking a trip across continental Europe next month and I was considering taking advantage of cheaper labour in certain countries, specifically changing transmission fluid and possibly some other fluids (axles, transfer box). The quote from a BMW dealer over there was quite a bit higher than what I expected:

Genuine BMW ZF 8HP Service Kit (24115A13115) - 313 EUR (267 GBP)
BMW Genuine 1L Automatic Transmission Fluid Oil ATF 3+ 1 Litre 83225A12A00, 8.5L - 724 EUR (619 GBP)
Work - 209 EUR (178 GBP)

TOTAL: 1246 EUR (1065 GBP)

Does this sound right? Do you actually have to change the sump and all that stuff as well?

My F15 is high miles, 135K at the moment, so I bet many would call it a ticking time bomb. Thing is, I don't know if I want to keep it for another 6 months or 6 years and investing thousands at this point into maintenance is a bit conflicting.

[d_a_n1979]

RockDriver said:

I'm taking a trip across continental Europe next month and I was considering taking advantage of cheaper labour in certain countries, specifically changing transmission fluid and possibly some other fluids (axles, transfer box). The quote from a BMW dealer over there was quite a bit higher than what I expected:

Genuine BMW ZF 8HP Service Kit (24115A13115) - 313 EUR (267 GBP)
BMW Genuine 1L Automatic Transmission Fluid Oil ATF 3+ 1 Litre 83225A12A00, 8.5L - 724 EUR (619 GBP)
Work - 209 EUR (178 GBP)

TOTAL: 1246 EUR (1065 GBP)

Does this sound right? Do you actually have to change the sump and all that stuff as well?

My F15 is high miles, 135K at the moment, so I bet many would call it a ticking time bomb. Thing is, I don't know if I want to keep it for another 6 months or 6 years and investing thousands at this point into maintenance is a bit conflicting.

No!

It's c£400/£450 here in the UK using ZF stuff...

You can get the kit from Autodoc for c£150-£200 when the discounts are timed right etc

I'm getting mine booked in for sometime early next month with the local Automatic transmission specialists here in Preston and that's £400 with all ZF parts

FYI the filter is built into the transmission sump; so yes it needs to be renewed

[RockDriver]

d_a_n1979 said:

No!

It's c£400/£450 here in the UK using ZF stuff...

You can get the kit from Autodoc for c£150-£200 when the discounts are timed right etc

I'm getting mine booked in for sometime early next month with the local Automatic transmission specialists here in Preston and that's £400 with all ZF parts

FYI the filter is built into the transmission sump; so yes it needs to be renewed

So, those pricks are trying to take me for a ride, so to speak. They quoted me almost a grand for parts alone. Are you sure the kit on Autodoc is genuine ZF though? Gotta link for that kit by any chance?

Edited by RockDriver on Tuesday 21st May 13:55

[d_a_n1979]

RockDriver said:

d_a_n1979 said:

No!

It's c£400/£450 here in the UK using ZF stuff...

You can get the kit from Autodoc for c£150-£200 when the discounts are timed right etc

I'm getting mine booked in for sometime early next month with the local Automatic transmission specialists here in Preston and that's £400 with all ZF parts

FYI the filter is built into the transmission sump; so yes it needs to be renewed

So, those pricks are trying to take me for a ride, so to speak. They quoted me almost a grand for parts alone. Are you sure the kit on Autodoc is genuine ZF though? Gotta link for that kit by any chance?

Edited by RockDriver on Tuesday 21st May 13:55

As an example: https://www.autodoc.co.uk/zf-getriebe/8824048

[Panamax]

RockDriver said:

I don't know if I want to keep it for another 6 months or 6 years and investing thousands at this point into maintenance is a bit conflicting.

That makes the decision easy. Another 6 months of gentle driving and then see how you feel.

My personal opinion is that however much money you spend maintaining an old car it will always be cheaper than buying a new car. One of my cars is going to need that same "fluids all round" treatment later this year and I'm expecting to have to suck up costs along the lines you've been quoted.

[DKIE92]

RockDriver said:

I'm taking a trip across continental Europe next month and I was considering taking advantage of cheaper labour in certain countries, specifically changing transmission fluid and possibly some other fluids (axles, transfer box). The quote from a BMW dealer over there was quite a bit higher than what I expected:

Genuine BMW ZF 8HP Service Kit (24115A13115) - 313 EUR (267 GBP)
BMW Genuine 1L Automatic Transmission Fluid Oil ATF 3+ 1 Litre 83225A12A00, 8.5L - 724 EUR (619 GBP)
Work - 209 EUR (178 GBP)

TOTAL: 1246 EUR (1065 GBP)

Does this sound right? Do you actually have to change the sump and all that stuff as well?

My F15 is high miles, 135K at the moment, so I bet many would call it a ticking time bomb. Thing is, I don't know if I want to keep it for another 6 months or 6 years and investing thousands at this point into maintenance is a bit conflicting.

Yeah as per the other comment, that quote isn’t right. The kit should come with the new fluid so not sure why’s these guys have listed it separately, not to mention they’re trying to charge you £619 for the fluid alone….

I had my ZF6 serviced for £450. Different transmission but the parts are roughly the same price and labour cost is no different.

[Court_S]

As others have said, those prices look mental.

If you look on the ZF website, you should be able to find an approved ZF specialist near you.

[rottenegg]

8.5L is the dry capacity for the 8HP70. You only need 7 for a drain and refill. BMW charge a fortune for the standard issue Shell trans fluid, but is significantly cheaper from ZF aftermarket as discussed. BMW also charge a fortune for the diff oils.

Just get an indie to do the work over here before setting off. You'll have some recourse if things go wrong, which you probably won't in Europe.

[RockDriver]

Thanks for all the input, fellas.

I just booked the car with a BMW indy.

But there's something rather concerning. The guy said that if transmission fluid was never changed and the car is above 87K miles (as mine is - 135K miles), there's a degree of risk in changing it and that the transmission may fail afterwards. He said in my case if everything works well, I should consider just leaving it as is.

Thoughts?

[d_a_n1979]

RockDriver said:

Thanks for all the input, fellas.

I just booked the car with a BMW indy.

But there's something rather concerning. The guy said that if transmission fluid was never changed and the car is above 87K miles (as mine is - 135K miles), there's a degree of risk in changing it and that the transmission may fail afterwards. He said in my case if everything works well, I should consider just leaving it as is.

Thoughts?

Ignore; just being overly cautious

Get it serviced; it'll be fine

[smashy]

RockDriver said:

Thanks for all the input, fellas.

I just booked the car with a BMW indy.

But there's something rather concerning. The guy said that if transmission fluid was never changed and the car is above 87K miles (as mine is - 135K miles), there's a degree of risk in changing it and that the transmission may fail afterwards. He said in my case if everything works well, I should consider just leaving it as is.

Thoughts?

Well well, intersting. I have always been of the view of if it is working properly why open a can of worms. I had 140k from a 120d and 130k from a 330d and left the gearbox's alone .Googling bmw gearbox problems after transmission oil service ,convinces me.

Edited by smashy on Tuesday 28th May 15:19

[d_a_n1979]

smashy said:

RockDriver said:

Thanks for all the input, fellas.

I just booked the car with a BMW indy.

But there's something rather concerning. The guy said that if transmission fluid was never changed and the car is above 87K miles (as mine is - 135K miles), there's a degree of risk in changing it and that the transmission may fail afterwards. He said in my case if everything works well, I should consider just leaving it as is.

Thoughts?

Well well, intersting. I have always been of the view of if it is working properly why open a can of worms. I had 140k from a 120d and 130k from a 330d and left the gearbox's alone .Googling bmw gearbox problems after transmission oil service ,convinces me.

Edited by smashy on Tuesday 28th May 15:19

On the flip side there's lots of folks that have had their box serviced with zero issues and it's been a good thing to do with an overall smoother gear change etc

For the OP - if you're happy to get it serviced; get it serviced. If you're concerned re the possible negatives/what's said online/what your indy says; leave it be

Edited by d_a_n1979 on Tuesday 28th May 16:16

[DKIE92]

RockDriver said:

Thanks for all the input, fellas.

I just booked the car with a BMW indy.

But there's something rather concerning. The guy said that if transmission fluid was never changed and the car is above 87K miles (as mine is - 135K miles), there's a degree of risk in changing it and that the transmission may fail afterwards. He said in my case if everything works well, I should consider just leaving it as is.

Thoughts?

That is a common recommendation. The reasoning for it is that high mileage transmissions will have micro metal particles in the fluid. If you remove these micro metals then it can cause clutch slippage due to reduced friction.

No idea how true this is. I did quite a lot of research on it before I got my transmission serviced but couldn’t find anything concrete. There’s loads of posts out there of high mileage services which have been fine. I can’t recall seeing anything negative really. It seems the issues mainly arise after a service if it’s not done properly as there’s a refill procedure that needs to be followed.

If your transmission is currently in good health then I’m sure a service will be fine. Just ask the garage to walk you through the refill process so you know they’ll do it correctly.

[RockDriver]

So, more or less damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda situation. I guess I'll just have to roll the dice on this one.

[d_a_n1979]

RockDriver said:

So, more or less damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda situation. I guess I'll just have to roll the dice on this one.

FWIW my 1st 2002 E39 at 146k miles had a full ZF5 service by Grant @ Automatic Transmissions, Preston - ZERO issues

Same with my 105k mile 2000 E38 728i; my 90k mile 2002 Jap import E39 530i Sport touring; and the same with my Jap import 2002 E39 540i Sport (only had 56k miles but the 20 year old fluid was well past it)

Most recently my 85k mile F01 730D ZF6 was serviced; sold it at 89k miles and it's now covered 140k miles nearly (a LOT of driving from Scotland to Eastern Europe) and it's running like a well oiled machine the current owners told me

I've yet to get my current 2015 F31 into Grant (haven't done due to lack of use and ill health); but it'll still get the same ZF fluid and ZF filter change as all those above...

[MissChief]

d_a_n1979 said:

smashy said:

RockDriver said:

Thanks for all the input, fellas.

I just booked the car with a BMW indy.

But there's something rather concerning. The guy said that if transmission fluid was never changed and the car is above 87K miles (as mine is - 135K miles), there's a degree of risk in changing it and that the transmission may fail afterwards. He said in my case if everything works well, I should consider just leaving it as is.

Thoughts?

Well well, intersting. I have always been of the view of if it is working properly why open a can of worms. I had 140k from a 120d and 130k from a 330d and left the gearbox's alone .Googling bmw gearbox problems after transmission oil service ,convinces me.

Edited by smashy on Tuesday 28th May 15:19

On the flip side there's lots of folks that have had their box serviced with zero issues and it's been a good thing to do with an overall smoother gear change etc

For the OP - if you're happy to get it serviced; get it serviced. If you're concerned re the possible negatives/what's said online/what your indy says; leave it be

Edited by d_a_n1979 on Tuesday 28th May 16:16

I had my fluid changed in October last year on about 52k miles and 8 years old. No issues at all and smoother changes were noticeable. £350+VAT from an authorised ZF agent in Glasgow. That was everything so OP's pricing seems very steep indeed!

[sortedcossie]

I had a ZF6 done on our 330d a few years back, new pan/filter etc, car was on around 95k. The ZF place told me the same about over having it done over100k as they had seen failures afterwards, to do with the valves and clutches and learning adaptations again with mildly worn parts but new fluid.

Car is now on 125k, had no issues.

I think this is like many things, you hear of the odd failure but I bet they couldn't cast iron guarantee that the change was the cause. If it were my cash i'd risk the service.

[Aluminati]

smashy said:

Well well, intersting. I have always been of the view of if it is working properly why open a can of worms. I had 140k from a 120d and 130k from a 330d and left the gearbox's alone .Googling bmw gearbox problems after transmission oil service ,convinces me.

Edited by smashy on Tuesday 28th May 15:19

Indeed, I have run ZF 8 spd boxes up to 165k/163k/175k all driven hard, one in an X5. A 6 spd up to 158k.

Zero issues.

[Lannister902]

Zf themselves recommend a fluid change every 50k. I got my kit from Autodoc for £200 I think it was, and carried out the work on my own.

[rottenegg]

RockDriver said:

But there's something rather concerning. The guy said that if transmission fluid was never changed and the car is above 87K miles (as mine is - 135K miles), there's a degree of risk in changing it and that the transmission may fail afterwards. He said in my case if everything works well, I should consider just leaving it as is.

Thoughts?

That is just classic backside covering, probably because of the internet misinformation surrounding clutch adaptations.

The 8HP is a very different beast to these ancient old slush boxes that hold themselves together with aged and thickened trans fluid.

If you have Bimmerlink - and I highly recommend you get it - you can see what the clutch adaptations are before you take it in.

The smaller the numbers, the better, but.....

Anything less than 100mbar for the clutch fill pressures - you're golden.
Anything less than 50ms for the rapid flll times - you're golden.

The adaptations simply tweak the clutch engagements to meet the target shift times, and they change constantly to compensate for wear and fluid temperature changes.

The wear limit on the clutches is 800mbar, and if they are that high, then the clutches are almost done and no amount of oil changes will save it. It's resetting the adaptations at that wear limit that can cause shifting problems.

The adaptations should be reset with new oil, and indeed it is standard practice with JLR cars that use the 8HP gearbox. Its only in BMW land that people are sht scared of them for some reason.

Anyway, that was a long winded way of saying ignore a garage's reluctance to service it if the adaptations are healthy. The only reason I mentioned them is because that is the ONLY reason you should think twice about servicing it, but as I say, if the clutches are that worn, the box will need a rebuild anyway.

All lubricating fluids are subject to ageing as well as heat cycling and contamination degradation. Filled for life is complete nonsense and should never be adhered to. Do what the gearbox manufacturer says - every 60K or every 8 years is ZF's official stance on it. More regularly than that if the car does towing or lots of heavy acceleration.