My E70 V8 engine is toast?
Discussion
Bought the car (2009 E70 4.8 petrol) barely 3 weeks ago and today while diagnosing climate control issue at a BMW independent, this is what they have discovered:
"Found excessive pressure build up in cooling system, further testing confirmed coolant fumes occasionally present at heater vents. Chemical test confirmed exhaust gasses present in coolant - replacement engine with rebuilt unit required. Estimate provided."
Estimate is £12K, which is 50% more than I paid for the damn car. From what I understand, the cylinder head is on it's way out. So the car is effectively scrap? I bought it at a dealer and the dealer is currently squirming hard obviously.
"Found excessive pressure build up in cooling system, further testing confirmed coolant fumes occasionally present at heater vents. Chemical test confirmed exhaust gasses present in coolant - replacement engine with rebuilt unit required. Estimate provided."
Estimate is £12K, which is 50% more than I paid for the damn car. From what I understand, the cylinder head is on it's way out. So the car is effectively scrap? I bought it at a dealer and the dealer is currently squirming hard obviously.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Head gasket replacement. Won’t be cheap but not 12k either
Or try steel seal for £30
Doesn't this mean that the head itself is on it's way out though? Would gasket be enough?Or try steel seal for £30
Problem is, I was planning a long trip across continental Europe on the 21st (1300 miles one way) and when I asked these guys they said it would be highly risky, high chance the engine wouldn't make it. Does that sound plausible? It's a BMW independent that was recommended on this very forum.
Edited by RockDriver on Friday 9th December 22:25
RockDriver said:
Bought the car (2009 E70 4.8 petrol) barely 3 weeks ago and today while diagnosing climate control issue at a BMW independent, this is what they have discovered:
"Found excessive pressure build up in cooling system, further testing confirmed coolant fumes occasionally present at heater vents. Chemical test confirmed exhaust gasses present in coolant - replacement engine with rebuilt unit required. Estimate provided."
Estimate is £12K, which is 50% more than I paid for the damn car. From what I understand, the cylinder head is on it's way out. So the car is effectively scrap? I bought it at a dealer and the dealer is currently squirming hard obviously.
Probably good to get a couple more quotes, just in case. A diagnosis from an official BMW franchised dealer could be worth paying for."Found excessive pressure build up in cooling system, further testing confirmed coolant fumes occasionally present at heater vents. Chemical test confirmed exhaust gasses present in coolant - replacement engine with rebuilt unit required. Estimate provided."
Estimate is £12K, which is 50% more than I paid for the damn car. From what I understand, the cylinder head is on it's way out. So the car is effectively scrap? I bought it at a dealer and the dealer is currently squirming hard obviously.
If all are confident these symptoms indicate this fault has been present since before purchase, tell the dealer you want to exercise your short term right to reject the car, and you want a refund. (This is your right, under the consumer rights act 2015. Plenty on the internet about this.) This right only lasts for 30 days after purchase, so move quickly!
(There is a longer-term right to demand a repair, which you could reasonably exercise if the 30 day period runs out. Not sure of the details, but there'll be plenty on the internet about this too.)
£9,000 doesn't sound ridiculously cheap for a 13 year old X5. Assuming the fault is as reported, the dealer can't exactly argue that this sort of fault is commensurate with the price paid. You can expect more for that sort of money than a car with an engine that's completely shagged.
Edited by to3m on Friday 9th December 22:48
to3m said:
Probably good to get a couple more quotes, just in case. A diagnosis from an official BMW franchised dealer could be worth paying for.
If all are confident these symptoms indicate this fault has been present since before purchase, tell the dealer you want to exercise your short term right to reject the car, and you want a refund. (This is your right, under the consumer rights act 2015. Plenty on the internet about this.) This right only lasts for 30 days after purchase, so move quickly!
(There is a longer-term right to demand a repair, which you could reasonably exercise if the 30 day period runs out. Not sure of the details, but there'll be plenty on the internet about this too.)
£9,000 doesn't sound ridiculously cheap for a 13 year old X5. Assuming the fault is as reported, the dealer can't exactly argue that this sort of fault is commensurate with the price paid. You can expect more for that sort of money than a car with an engine that's completely shagged.
I've had the car for 22 days and driven probably around 500 miles with it. There's no way in hell a major problem like that could have developed during that short time. I'm torn about this now. I've already invested a lot into this car (full service, all fluids, new tyres, etc), but if I am to return it - it's now or never.If all are confident these symptoms indicate this fault has been present since before purchase, tell the dealer you want to exercise your short term right to reject the car, and you want a refund. (This is your right, under the consumer rights act 2015. Plenty on the internet about this.) This right only lasts for 30 days after purchase, so move quickly!
(There is a longer-term right to demand a repair, which you could reasonably exercise if the 30 day period runs out. Not sure of the details, but there'll be plenty on the internet about this too.)
£9,000 doesn't sound ridiculously cheap for a 13 year old X5. Assuming the fault is as reported, the dealer can't exactly argue that this sort of fault is commensurate with the price paid. You can expect more for that sort of money than a car with an engine that's completely shagged.
Edited by to3m on Friday 9th December 22:48
This problem was diagnosed by a BMW indy that was recommended on this forum and has positive reviews. I don't think they stand to gain anything by exaggerating in this situation, do they? I've been their customer until now, but nobody in their right mind would pay 12 grand to repair the car that itself costs much less than that. They told me returning the car to dealer is the only logical move I have now. That's also what I have to do if I still wanna make my Christmas trip - I have to buy another car or just cancel the whole thing. There's no way I can trust this car now in this state for a longer trip.
darreni said:
You need to go back to the dealer & discuss.
I already did and his reaction was as expected. He was squirming a lot.The car has 128K miles on it. The way I see it, "best case scenario" is head gasket is on it's way out and it would cost thousands to replace it. Worst case scenario is the head and/or engine block is warped as well effectively making the car scrap.
On a positive note, it's best to find out about this now, rather than somewhere in the middle of Europe. I should have went with ML500.
I will see if I can find somewhere to do another head gasket test tomorrow, but I'm not holding my breath.
RockDriver said:
to3m said:
Probably good to get a couple more quotes, just in case. A diagnosis from an official BMW franchised dealer could be worth paying for.
If all are confident these symptoms indicate this fault has been present since before purchase, tell the dealer you want to exercise your short term right to reject the car, and you want a refund. (This is your right, under the consumer rights act 2015. Plenty on the internet about this.) This right only lasts for 30 days after purchase, so move quickly!
(There is a longer-term right to demand a repair, which you could reasonably exercise if the 30 day period runs out. Not sure of the details, but there'll be plenty on the internet about this too.)
£9,000 doesn't sound ridiculously cheap for a 13 year old X5. Assuming the fault is as reported, the dealer can't exactly argue that this sort of fault is commensurate with the price paid. You can expect more for that sort of money than a car with an engine that's completely shagged.
I've had the car for 22 days and driven probably around 500 miles with it. There's no way in hell a major problem like that could have developed during that short time. I'm torn about this now. I've already invested a lot into this car (full service, all fluids, new tyres, etc), but if I am to return it - it's now or never.If all are confident these symptoms indicate this fault has been present since before purchase, tell the dealer you want to exercise your short term right to reject the car, and you want a refund. (This is your right, under the consumer rights act 2015. Plenty on the internet about this.) This right only lasts for 30 days after purchase, so move quickly!
(There is a longer-term right to demand a repair, which you could reasonably exercise if the 30 day period runs out. Not sure of the details, but there'll be plenty on the internet about this too.)
£9,000 doesn't sound ridiculously cheap for a 13 year old X5. Assuming the fault is as reported, the dealer can't exactly argue that this sort of fault is commensurate with the price paid. You can expect more for that sort of money than a car with an engine that's completely shagged.
This problem was diagnosed by a BMW indy that was recommended on this forum and has positive reviews. I don't think they stand to gain anything by exaggerating in this situation, do they? I've been their customer until now, but nobody in their right mind would pay 12 grand to repair the car that itself costs much less than that. They told me returning the car to dealer is the only logical move I have now. That's also what I have to do if I still wanna make my Christmas trip - I have to buy another car or just cancel the whole thing. There's no way I can trust this car now in this state for a longer trip.
Regarding whether they have any reason to exaggerate, it does seem unlikely, as if you've already had some work done there then they'd presumably be giving you a realistic estimate for further work. They'd rather have more of your money than not, I imagine! But the selling dealer could argue that they are exaggerating - Nobody Wants To Work Any More, or something - so if you have a franchised BMW dealer near you, I (if I were in your situation) would try to get a diagnosis from there as well, as it's going to be harder for anybody to argue with whatever they say.
And more data can't hurt anyway.
Given that you've paid for a bunch of stuff, and the aircon diagnosis, it's clear you weren't expecting the car to be absolutely perfect as sold, another angle I suppose they might try if trying to weasel out of a refund. (Not that they'd have a leg to stand on, it sounds like, if push came to shove and you went to court or whatever. But, again, no harm in thinking ahead...)
Good luck, and I hope you get some acceptable result, and your Christmas trip can go ahead one way or another.
darreni said:
You need to go back to the dealer & discuss.
Start by exercising the short term right to reject under the consumer rights act 2015, and take it from there.Edited by to3m on Saturday 10th December 00:36
Gerradi said:
Have you been having overheating problems & pressure release through overflpw tank or was this diagnosis a complete surprise ?
I mean, I didn't have any errors or anything if that's what you're asking. I wasn't aware of the overflow tank. The weather is cold right now too, which could be mitigating overheating too?Originally I brought the car to diagnose why I wasn't getting much hot air in the cabin. But for the past few days I also felt a strange smell in the cabin, just couldn't quite guess what that was. When these guys were diagnosing the issue they said they noticed coolant froth in the cabin vents and coolant was basically visibly evaporating through the cabin vents. It looks pretty bad - here's the video: https://imgur.com/a/n8rO2mx
Anyone can set themselves up as a specialist in one marque,my experience of a couple of indies,BMW and the other VW is not very good.
Get a 2nd opinion of a trusted mechanic would be my suggestion, especially with that video.
Certainly looks more like a heater matrix than a cooked engine to me
Get a 2nd opinion of a trusted mechanic would be my suggestion, especially with that video.
Certainly looks more like a heater matrix than a cooked engine to me
RockDriver said:
Doesn't this mean that the head itself is on it's way out though? Would gasket be enough?
Problem is, I was planning a long trip across continental Europe on the 21st (1300 miles one way) and when I asked these guys they said it would be highly risky, high chance the engine wouldn't make it. Does that sound plausible? It's a BMW independent that was recommended on this very forum.
No it absolutely does not mean the head is on its way out. It just means the gasket has failed. If the head is warped you can get it skimmed for less than £100. A gasket is probably the same money, and the block should be fine other than a clean. Labour will be the killer as I can see that being £2000. But it’s less than the price quoted. Problem is, I was planning a long trip across continental Europe on the 21st (1300 miles one way) and when I asked these guys they said it would be highly risky, high chance the engine wouldn't make it. Does that sound plausible? It's a BMW independent that was recommended on this very forum.
Edited by RockDriver on Friday 9th December 22:25
Steel seal may well work, possibly permanently but maybe long enough for you to px the car or send it to auction.
RockDriver said:
darreni said:
You need to go back to the dealer & discuss.
I already did and his reaction was as expected. He was squirming a lot.The car has 128K miles on it. The way I see it, "best case scenario" is head gasket is on it's way out and it would cost thousands to replace it. Worst case scenario is the head and/or engine block is warped as well effectively making the car scrap.
On a positive note, it's best to find out about this now, rather than somewhere in the middle of Europe. I should have went with ML500.
I will see if I can find somewhere to do another head gasket test tomorrow, but I'm not holding my breath.
ks... He needs to sort it; take it back to him & leave it with him. Speak to those in the know re stuff like this and get it sorted.The car was clearly not fit to sell on...
Be good if you can pin point which bank had the problem rather than doing both heads but as above it is simply a case of removing the head, getting it skimmed, new gasket and re assemble. I highly doubt the block will be warped I've seen engines with severe head gasket failure put back to good working order with just a head skim. If yours was severe you'd have known about it before this.
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