Car slower on cold morning than cold evenings (N52 3.0)

Car slower on cold morning than cold evenings (N52 3.0)

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Ads22

Original Poster:

326 posts

143 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
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Got a weird one here and just something I’ve noticed. This is the first 6 cylinder car ive owned so may just be something that’s normal.
I know generally a car usually accelerates faster with colder less dense air. While this is true with my car in cool evenings ive noticed the opposite is in fact true in the morning as it usually feels quite sluggish (a bit like me!).
Theres no codes on the car, only something that feels like a very faint misfire for that ive had for some time).
I guess a 3.0 takes longer to get up to temps but on a cooler evening even if I haven’t driven it all day i can just jump in start it up and it drives so much better.
Does anyone else encounter this in this engine?

Pica-Pica

14,492 posts

91 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
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Although rare, I have sometimes noticed my 335d seems a bit sluggish some mornings. In 300 yards, I am on a fast, clear single carriageway. I pull out smoothly and moderately, but when I have been tempted to accelerate more keenly than I should, it seems not to respond. I am of the belief that the software is limiting the response until it has warmed up

Pistonheader101

2,206 posts

114 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
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lol interesting observation.

Ads22

Original Poster:

326 posts

143 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
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Its a pretty odd one but i seem to notice these weird things. The other one is that if the car has been sitting for a few days not being driven, afterwards it seems to be more responsive and better to drive. I wonder if something possibly to do with sensors resetting certain parameters. Either that or my cars possessed.

oldaudi

1,412 posts

165 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
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On my n52 630i there is a rev limiter set. The full range is not available until it’s warm. Could it be that? Various temperatures at play perhaps

Ads22

Original Poster:

326 posts

143 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
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Oldaudi that may be correct. Once its warmer it does feel better , but never seems to feel like its hitting full power weirdly for quite a while. And if i drive it from cold in the evening or after sitting for a while it doesnt seem to do this at all.

MikeM6

5,230 posts

109 months

Wednesday 25th May 2022
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If an engine is cold it wont perform as well and you ought really to let it warm up before asking too much of it ideally. I imagine it retains temperature over the course of the day, not least as day time is warmer than night.

Ads22

Original Poster:

326 posts

143 months

Thursday 26th May 2022
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That makes sense so because it has had whole of day of sitting at a certain temperature then the oil i guess sits at a higher temp than first thing in the morning, plus in the evening/late afternoon you have cooler air usually. I just find it more noticeable on this car weirdly but it sounds like it’s intentional to protect the engine. It’s probably not helped by the fact that it feels like im missing some low end torque even when up to temps so possibly a potential problem might alleviate this more. I find turbo cars are better at covering up any dips in performance over n/a.

anonymous-user

61 months

Friday 27th May 2022
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Nothing to add to the above bar worth checking thermostats. Whilst the car does have safety features to limit power until warm, if you notice it’s still there after 30 minutes of cold morning driving it would be worth ruling out the stats. This might mean the VANOS/DISA are not performing as intended.

Ads22

Original Poster:

326 posts

143 months

Friday 27th May 2022
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It gets up to temp nicely as i can monitor it through BimmerLink. Coolant and oil temps get to about 100c or so which is where it should be I expect in stop start conditions.
One thing i have noticed is a very faint noise around the disa area though.
I also tried unplugging the maf which has made a slight improvement but nothing massively noticeable.

Edited by Ads22 on Friday 27th May 22:57

Ads22

Original Poster:

326 posts

143 months

Friday 3rd June 2022
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Think i might be on to something with this. As I’ve noticed the car is feeling more lethargic as time goes on, i had a poke around with the engine cover off to inspect a few things. The Disa looks fine afterall but i noticed i have a small pool of oil around the base of one coil and what looks like small amount of oil in a spark plug well. I guess this is what could be causing a small misfire type feel and could point to the rocker cover gasket?

Rockster

1,514 posts

167 months

Friday 3rd June 2022
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Ads22 said:
Think i might be on to something with this. As I’ve noticed the car is feeling more lethargic as time goes on, i had a poke around with the engine cover off to inspect a few things. The Disa looks fine afterall but i noticed i have a small pool of oil around the base of one coil and what looks like small amount of oil in a spark plug well. I guess this is what could be causing a small misfire type feel and could point to the rocker cover gasket?
Oil on the coils is not good as it can result in the degradation of the coil insulation. Thus one or more coils can be "arcing" which can be a misfire.

You need to find and fix the source of that oil leak and consider replacing the coils.

Can't remember the exact miles now, but roughly at between 132K and 160K miles with my Porsche Turbo on a whim I had all 6 coils replaced. The engine was not misfiring was not manifesting any signs of any issues at all. But I had all 4 O2 sensors replaced at 132K miles and after the engine perked up some.

After the new coils (and plugs) were installed the engine ran better. While the plugs were changed at the same time as the coils -- while the tech was there -- they were about 10K miles away from being due to be replaced. Also, I had had the plugs changed before on schedule and the engine never reacted. So I attribute the engine running better to the new coils.

Panamax

5,115 posts

41 months

Friday 3rd June 2022
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Ads22 said:
I know generally a car usually accelerates faster with colder less dense air.
Colder air is actually more dense so contains more oxygen per litre and will enhance performance. Hence turbo cars often have intercoolers.

The other factor that affects performance is humidity. Higher humidity = less performance. It's likely humidity may be high in the mornings.





Ads22

Original Poster:

326 posts

143 months

Monday 6th June 2022
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Rockster said:
Oil on the coils is not good as it can result in the degradation of the coil insulation. Thus one or more coils can be "arcing" which can be a misfire.

You need to find and fix the source of that oil leak and consider replacing the coils.

Can't remember the exact miles now, but roughly at between 132K and 160K miles with my Porsche Turbo on a whim I had all 6 coils replaced. The engine was not misfiring was not manifesting any signs of any issues at all. But I had all 4 O2 sensors replaced at 132K miles and after the engine perked up some.

After the new coils (and plugs) were installed the engine ran better. While the plugs were changed at the same time as the coils -- while the tech was there -- they were about 10K miles away from being due to be replaced. Also, I had had the plugs changed before on schedule and the engine never reacted. So I attribute the engine running better to the new coils.
No actual oil on the coils so it appears. Just around the outside of the coil housing. There does appear to be a small amount of oil in the spark chamber. This may explain why im burning oil faster than expected though. Its odd that it doesn’t feel like an actual full on misfire, more of a lumpy idle.
Knowing this engine i think that the rocker cover gasket would likely be causing this. So after thats been tackled im guessing replacing sparks would be next port of call?

Mikebentley

6,719 posts

147 months

Monday 6th June 2022
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Just a thought but on your cold morning journeys are you going uphill? Then evenings on the return journey going downhill.

Ads22

Original Poster:

326 posts

143 months

Wednesday 8th June 2022
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Mikebentley said:
Just a thought but on your cold morning journeys are you going uphill? Then evenings on the return journey going downhill.
I see where you’re coming from XD but no pretty level terrain where I am. I use it a good chunk of the day too so i can tell when its starting to feel more sluggish.

Panamax

5,115 posts

41 months

Wednesday 8th June 2022
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You could always get a modern car with computer controlled turbocharger. That'll soon adjust for "atmospherics"!

Ads22

Original Poster:

326 posts

143 months

Wednesday 15th June 2022
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Ok we have a misfire on cylinder 1. Not sure what's causing it but have been recommended plugs and coils. Might just tackle cylinder 1 first and if that does the job ill tackle all of them. Im guessing cylinder 1 is at front of the engine on the N52.

g3org3y

21,117 posts

198 months

Thursday 16th June 2022
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Ads22 said:
Ok we have a misfire on cylinder 1. Not sure what's causing it but have been recommended plugs and coils. Might just tackle cylinder 1 first and if that does the job ill tackle all of them. Im guessing cylinder 1 is at front of the engine on the N52.
That's a good starting point. Coils going bad is not uncommon on the N52. I had it on the 630i and did all 6 coils. They are quite straight forward and relatively inexpensive.

Court_S

13,851 posts

184 months

Thursday 16th June 2022
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Ads22 said:
No actual oil on the coils so it appears. Just around the outside of the coil housing. There does appear to be a small amount of oil in the spark chamber. This may explain why im burning oil faster than expected though. Its odd that it doesn’t feel like an actual full on misfire, more of a lumpy idle.
Knowing this engine i think that the rocker cover gasket would likely be causing this. So after thats been tackled im guessing replacing sparks would be next port of call?
Which coil / spark plug is this? Just wondering if your valvetronic gasket is leaking, if it is it’ll drip onto cylinders 3/4.