Star Marked Tyres on X Drive Models - Square set up.

Star Marked Tyres on X Drive Models - Square set up.

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g3org3y

Original Poster:

21,117 posts

198 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
Just double checking before I throw away hundreds of pounds....

On X Drive models, as I understand it, Star Marked (BMW approved) tyres v important for staggered set ups to maintain rolling radius between front and back and prevent issued with the transfer box.

For a square set up, Star Marked tyres not needed.

I mention this as I'm keeping the X5 on the smaller square set up 18s (255/55 R18) and just ordered Michelin Cross Climate SUVs tyres.

Am I right in the above thinking?

JNW1

8,233 posts

201 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
g3org3y said:
Just double checking before I throw away hundreds of pounds....

On X Drive models, as I understand it, Star Marked (BMW approved) tyres v important for staggered set ups to maintain rolling radius between front and back and prevent issued with the transfer box.

For a square set up, Star Marked tyres not needed.

I mention this as I'm keeping the X5 on the smaller square set up 18s (255/55 R18) and just ordered Michelin Cross Climate SUVs tyres.

Am I right in the above thinking?
Depends whether you believe star marked tyres are made to tighter tolerances than their non-star equivalents. From a trading standards perspective I've never been convinced they are as I can't imagine tyre manufacturers would be allowed to sell tyres which weren't to the specification stated (size, load rating, etc) and hence I think the star mark thing is over-hyped (to put it politely!).

As you say, the key with X-Drive is to make sure the rolling circumference front to rear is close enough to prevent issues with the transfer box; a square set-up obviously achieves that and with a staggered set-up it's easy enough to work out (and if you stick to BMW's recommended sizes you shouldn't have a problem anyway). But I would argue all that can be achieved with tyres that aren't star marked - providing they were the right size and load rating I would't have a problem fitting Michelin Cross Climates to my X-drive BMW even if they didn't carry a star mark.


g3org3y

Original Poster:

21,117 posts

198 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
JNW1 said:
Depends whether you believe star marked tyres are made to tighter tolerances than their non-star equivalents. From a trading standards perspective I've never been convinced they are as I can't imagine tyre manufacturers would be allowed to sell tyres which weren't to the specification stated (size, load rating, etc) and hence I think the star mark thing is over-hyped (to put it politely!).

As you say, the key with X-Drive is to make sure the rolling circumference front to rear is close enough to prevent issues with the transfer box; a square set-up obviously achieves that and with a staggered set-up it's easy enough to work out (and if you stick to BMW's recommended sizes you shouldn't have a problem anyway). But I would argue all that can be achieved with tyres that aren't star marked - providing they were the right size and load rating I would't have a problem fitting Michelin Cross Climates to my X-drive BMW even if they didn't carry a star mark.
If I was going staggered set up, I'd do the Star Marked tyres tbf. There was a thread (can't remember here or another forum) where someone measured the difference between Star and non-Star tyres of the same size and there was a measureable difference. X-Drive is clearly a v sensitive system.

However I want a more comfortable ride + cheaper tyres, hence the decision to stick to the 18s. Sods law, will have a puncture and damn myself for not choosing RFTs. Being 'darn sarf', don't expect to get caught in too many snow drifts, so hope the CrossClimates will provide good all year ability with some summer bias but also winter ability if needed.

E-bmw

9,984 posts

159 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
Do you really think a trashed transmission and the mahoosive bills it can generate are worth the chance?

There have been MANY well reported issues with using non-star rated tyres on X-drive models, I personally wouldn't risk it.

wyson

2,730 posts

111 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
https://youtu.be/-JLvNj3z3oY

Definitely a difference with star marked tyres. I’d go for them too.

Having driven many Golfs on many different tyres, I noticed the OE tyres had the best set of compromises.

I’ve tried aftermarket sportier tyres which made the car handle better but the suspension made more thumping noises and the ride got worse over broken surfaces. I tried after market comfort orientated tyres and the ride improved, but the car felt a bit lead footed and wasn’t as incisive in the corners. The OE tyres best balanced these traits.

No doubt the BMW * tyres are the same, developed specifically for the suspension tune of your car.

JNW1

8,233 posts

201 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
wyson said:
https://youtu.be/-JLvNj3z3oY

Definitely a difference with star marked tyres. I’d go for them too.

Having driven many Golfs on many different tyres, I noticed the OE tyres had the best set of compromises.

I’ve tried aftermarket sportier tyres which made the car handle better but the suspension made more thumping noises and the ride got worse over broken surfaces. I tried after market comfort orientated tyres and the ride improved, but the car felt a bit lead footed and wasn’t as incisive in the corners. The OE tyres best balanced these traits.

No doubt the BMW * tyres are the same, developed specifically for the suspension tune of your car.
You've linked a video that says the aftermarket PS4S is better than the star marked PSS but then conclude you're better with a star marked tyre? Bizarre!

Moreover, there's nothing in that video to suggest there's any difference with the manufacturing tolerances which might affect the actual size of a star marked tyre as opposed to a non-star marked tyre. That's what affects the rolling circumference which is important for an X-drive car but there's no mention of any difference between star and non-star tyres in that regard.

Like many BMW owners I've made the switch from run-flats to conventional tyres on several cars I've owned (including an X-drive) and if anyone suggested to me a star marked run-flat was going to perform better than a quality conventional tyre that wasn't star marked I'd laugh at them!

g3org3y

Original Poster:

21,117 posts

198 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
Do you really think a trashed transmission and the mahoosive bills it can generate are worth the chance?

There have been MANY well reported issues with using non-star rated tyres on X-drive models, I personally wouldn't risk it.
My understand was the issues surrounding the XDrive was to do with the difference between the front and rear and the strain it causes on the transfer box. This could be caused by: different tread patterns or rolling radius (either from factory or owing to wear).

As mentioned, if going staggered, I'd be using Star Marked.

wyson said:
https://youtu.be/-JLvNj3z3oY

Definitely a difference with star marked tyres. I’d go for them too.

Having driven many Golfs on many different tyres, I noticed the OE tyres had the best set of compromises.

I’ve tried aftermarket sportier tyres which made the car handle better but the suspension made more thumping noises and the ride got worse over broken surfaces. I tried after market comfort orientated tyres and the ride improved, but the car felt a bit lead footed and wasn’t as incisive in the corners. The OE tyres best balanced these traits.

No doubt the BMW * tyres are the same, developed specifically for the suspension tune of your car.
The only all season BMW OE option I can find is Pirelli Scorpion Verde and Goodyear Eagle LS2. Both are RFT.

I'd consider the former, but tbh wanted to avoid RFT.

Moreover Michelin CCs, hammer the Pirellis for performance in pretty much every single category: https://alltyretests.com/pirelli-scorpion-verde-al...

Edited by g3org3y on Monday 9th May 21:44

JNW1

8,233 posts

201 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
Do you really think a trashed transmission and the mahoosive bills it can generate are worth the chance?

There have been MANY well reported issues with using non-star rated tyres on X-drive models, I personally wouldn't risk it.
Have there? I've seen reports where people have mixed part worn tyres with new tyres and had a problem but I've never seen a report where someone's had a brand new set of non-star tyres fitted in the correct size and that's been shown to cause a problem with the X-drive system. But as there have been "MANY" reported issues I'm sure you'll be able to provide links to some of them....

wyson

2,730 posts

111 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
JNW1 said:
You've linked a video that says the aftermarket PS4S is better than the star marked PSS but then conclude you're better with a star marked tyre? Bizarre!

Moreover, there's nothing in that video to suggest there's any difference with the manufacturing tolerances which might affect the actual size of a star marked tyre as opposed to a non-star marked tyre. That's what affects the rolling circumference which is important for an X-drive car but there's no mention of any difference between star and non-star tyres in that regard.

Like many BMW owners I've made the switch from run-flats to conventional tyres on several cars I've owned (including an X-drive) and if anyone suggested to me a star marked run-flat was going to perform better than a quality conventional tyre that wasn't star marked I'd laugh at them!
Oops wrong video posted.

I meant to post:

https://youtu.be/COA630Juf_U

The mistake was informative in itself though. So between the PSS (older OE *) and PS4S (new gen aftermarket), the newer tyre is better.

Between a current gen OE * PS4S and a current gen aftermarket PS4S, the OE* is rated as the better tyre.


Edited by wyson on Monday 9th May 21:13

JNW1

8,233 posts

201 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
wyson said:
JNW1 said:
You've linked a video that says the aftermarket PS4S is better than the star marked PSS but then conclude you're better with a star marked tyre? Bizarre!

Moreover, there's nothing in that video to suggest there's any difference with the manufacturing tolerances which might affect the actual size of a star marked tyre as opposed to a non-star marked tyre. That's what affects the rolling circumference which is important for an X-drive car but there's no mention of any difference between star and non-star tyres in that regard.

Like many BMW owners I've made the switch from run-flats to conventional tyres on several cars I've owned (including an X-drive) and if anyone suggested to me a star marked run-flat was going to perform better than a quality conventional tyre that wasn't star marked I'd laugh at them!
Oops wrong video posted.

I meant to post:

https://youtu.be/COA630Juf_U

The mistake was informative in itself though. So between the PSS (older OE *) and PS4S (new gen aftermarket), the newer tyre is better.

Between a current gen OE * PS4S and a current gen aftermarket PS4S, the OE* is rated as the better tyre.


Edited by wyson on Monday 9th May 21:13
I've seen that second video before and, while I accept what Tyre Reviews are saying, it does depend on what you want from your tyre. Yes on an M-car being driven at ten-tenths on a track in the dry the star marked tyre designed for the car is better; no surprise there as that's the brief the M-division engineers gave to Michelin. But for most of us things like ride comfort and especially performance in the wet matter more than ultimate performance on a track and viewed in that context I'd say the conclusion isn't clear cut in favour of the star marked tyre.

And of course these videos all tend to be around targeted improvements for tyres on M-cars. That's fair enough but the vast majority of BMW's aren't M-cars and I'd argue most owners of more mundane models have little interest in the sort of marginal performance improvement offered by tyres engineered specifically for M-cars.

As was said in the first video you linked, it would be very interesting to know what the differences are between the star and non-star tyres that are aimed at the more mainstream models. There's precious little information on that at the moment but personally I'd be surprised if the differences are as significant as for star marked tyres engineered specifically for M-cars.

wyson

2,730 posts

111 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
Yep, I’d be reading / watching that review with interest as well.

g3org3y

Original Poster:

21,117 posts

198 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
To throw another factor in the mix - just noticed Michelin have launched the Crossclimate 2 SUV version earlier this month.

I notice Blackcircles doesn't stock the size I'd need.... frown



Camskill have the size in stock though, so am assuming will be more available in the upcoming weeks.

Edited by g3org3y on Tuesday 10th May 06:42

g3org3y

Original Poster:

21,117 posts

198 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
Just called BC - order cancelled. Prob going to wait for the CC2 SUV to come in stock.

JNW1

8,233 posts

201 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
g3org3y said:
To throw another factor in the mix - just noticed Michelin have launched the Crossclimate 2 SUV version earlier this month.

I notice Blackcircles doesn't stock the size I'd need.... frown



Camskill have the size in stock though, so am assuming will be more available in the upcoming weeks.

Edited by g3org3y on Tuesday 10th May 06:42
I fitted a set of CrossClimate 2's to Mrs JNW1's Cooper S last year and they seem very good; no downside compared to the Primacy's they replaced in warm weather but more reassuring in cold conditions. The best deal I could find was actually through Asda tyres who arranged fitting at a local garage - it all went very smoothly and I'd use them again if they had availability and the price was competitive.

I'm guessing the CC2's won't be star marked but, as I say, that wouldn't bother me; providing the size and load ratings are correct IMO you won't go wrong from a manufacturer like Michelin.

JakeT

5,627 posts

127 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
Some of my may be overblown.

My dad has run an X5 (E53) from new, and there’s often been just a pair changed at certain times. The transfer box hasn’t blown up, although it’s not an actuated one. It’s the same one as an L322 Range Rover. It’s on 261,000 miles and has a set of Michelin Latitudes on it. They’ve been the tyre of choice now since about 2010.

E-bmw

9,984 posts

159 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
JNW1 said:
E-bmw said:
Do you really think a trashed transmission and the mahoosive bills it can generate are worth the chance?

There have been MANY well reported issues with using non-star rated tyres on X-drive models, I personally wouldn't risk it.
Have there? I've seen reports where people have mixed part worn tyres with new tyres and had a problem but I've never seen a report where someone's had a brand new set of non-star tyres fitted in the correct size and that's been shown to cause a problem with the X-drive system. But as there have been "MANY" reported issues I'm sure you'll be able to provide links to some of them....
I wasn't saying there are reports of non-star tyres causing issues, I was saying "is it worth the risk" as X-drive has PROVEN to cause many such issues wrt tyre selection?

Also, that I personally wouldn't risk it.

mekondelta

703 posts

267 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
I always use star marked tyres but the main thing I've noticed is that the xdrive is definitely not happy with a discrepancy of more than 3mm between front and rear treads. I have PZeros all round and forget/don't have time to rotate them regularly and one end (can't remember which) definitely wears faster than the other so when I get new tyres I'll need all 4 and one set to throw away will have probably have 4mm on them. A new pair + 4mm will cause the driveline to shunt badly (F25 X3 30d).

JNW1

8,233 posts

201 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
JNW1 said:
E-bmw said:
Do you really think a trashed transmission and the mahoosive bills it can generate are worth the chance?

There have been MANY well reported issues with using non-star rated tyres on X-drive models, I personally wouldn't risk it.
Have there? I've seen reports where people have mixed part worn tyres with new tyres and had a problem but I've never seen a report where someone's had a brand new set of non-star tyres fitted in the correct size and that's been shown to cause a problem with the X-drive system. But as there have been "MANY" reported issues I'm sure you'll be able to provide links to some of them....
I wasn't saying there are reports of non-star tyres causing issues,
Your previous post said "There have been MANY well reported issues with using non-star rated tyres on X-drive models" which rather implied it was the lack of a star marking that had somehow caused the problems. If you didn't mean the lack of a star mark was causing the issues why mention it in the way you did?

E-bmw said:
I was saying "is it worth the risk" as X-drive has PROVEN to cause many such issues wrt tyre selection?
I agree the X-drive system appears tyre sensitive and in particular it doesn't seem to handle different tread depths and/or tread patterns front to rear very well. But that's not a function of whether or not the tyres are star marked which is the subject of this thread.

JNW1

8,233 posts

201 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
mekondelta said:
I always use star marked tyres but the main thing I've noticed is that the xdrive is definitely not happy with a discrepancy of more than 3mm between front and rear treads. I have PZeros all round and forget/don't have time to rotate them regularly and one end (can't remember which) definitely wears faster than the other so when I get new tyres I'll need all 4 and one set to throw away will have probably have 4mm on them. A new pair + 4mm will cause the driveline to shunt badly (F25 X3 30d).
A significant discrepancy in tread depth - and hence rolling circumference - front to rear is indeed one of the known causes of problems with X-drive. However, on my F31 335d I found the tyre wear to be pretty much uniform across all four wheels and hence they were always replaced as a full set rather than mixing new tyres on one axle with worn tyres on the other. Thus far the wear pattern on my G21 M340i looks to be very similar although I know some X-drive owners claim to go through rears faster than fronts - can only assume that's a reflection of driving style.

g3org3y

Original Poster:

21,117 posts

198 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
JNW1 said:
I fitted a set of CrossClimate 2's to Mrs JNW1's Cooper S last year and they seem very good; no downside compared to the Primacy's they replaced in warm weather but more reassuring in cold conditions. The best deal I could find was actually through Asda tyres who arranged fitting at a local garage - it all went very smoothly and I'd use them again if they had availability and the price was competitive.

I'm guessing the CC2's won't be star marked but, as I say, that wouldn't bother me; providing the size and load ratings are correct IMO you won't go wrong from a manufacturer like Michelin.
I had CC+ on my E36 328i. They were decent, unfortunately never got to test them in the snow.

CC SUV is available in the correct size and load rating for the 18 inch option on the (E70) X5.

E-bmw said:
I wasn't saying there are reports of non-star tyres causing issues, I was saying "is it worth the risk" as X-drive has PROVEN to cause many such issues wrt tyre selection?

Also, that I personally wouldn't risk it.
As I mentioned, if it was a staggered set up, I'd be buying Star Marked.

It's because I'm keeping the square, I feel I can deviate from this (as all 4x corners the same). Plus, reading the tyre reviews out there, it seems as though the CrossClimates do outperform the majority of the other options, especially those considered BMW OE fit.