TVR to BMW....
Discussion
Chaps, I know some of you already know me, for those that don't, please excuse an interloper from the TVR forums.
Current circumstances are not favouring my beloved 4.2 V8 Cerbera, and I am in need of something a little more practical, but don't wish to sacrifice more performance than I have to.
Thus my current intention is to budget about £20k towards a 01-ish M5, preferably with all the toys, and run it in lieu of a TVR for a while. If all goes to plan, I'll be in a position to return to TVR land next summer, in time for the good weather, and would aim to keep the M5 as a shopping car ;)
So, the question is, how will the two compare? Will I feel heartbroken for a while, and crippled with BMW bills which if trawling the forum is a benchmark, far outweigh any such TVR bills (cerbera service £350, full set of tyres £328). Am I right in thinking the late 2000 cars were the ones with the bigger sat-nav screen? Can they cope with high miles, particularly as my aim would be to keep it forever an a day as a daily car whilst driving the TVR on high days and holidays.
I do hope you can offer some sage advice, and please don't just slag TVR as so many do - I have had both types of TVR, the problematic and the catastrophic, and every manufacturer has each.
Thanks in advance.
H.
Current circumstances are not favouring my beloved 4.2 V8 Cerbera, and I am in need of something a little more practical, but don't wish to sacrifice more performance than I have to.
Thus my current intention is to budget about £20k towards a 01-ish M5, preferably with all the toys, and run it in lieu of a TVR for a while. If all goes to plan, I'll be in a position to return to TVR land next summer, in time for the good weather, and would aim to keep the M5 as a shopping car ;)
So, the question is, how will the two compare? Will I feel heartbroken for a while, and crippled with BMW bills which if trawling the forum is a benchmark, far outweigh any such TVR bills (cerbera service £350, full set of tyres £328). Am I right in thinking the late 2000 cars were the ones with the bigger sat-nav screen? Can they cope with high miles, particularly as my aim would be to keep it forever an a day as a daily car whilst driving the TVR on high days and holidays.
I do hope you can offer some sage advice, and please don't just slag TVR as so many do - I have had both types of TVR, the problematic and the catastrophic, and every manufacturer has each.
Thanks in advance.
H.
redleicester said:
So, the question is, how will the two compare?
Chalk and cheese.
One is a plastic hand built English low volume sports car, the other is a reliable, sober, even dull, top of the range German saloon with a big engine.
redleicester said:
Will I feel heartbroken for a while, and crippled with BMW bills which if trawling the forum is a benchmark, far outweigh any such TVR bills (cerbera service £350, full set of tyres £328).
Seems like small numbers for TVR ownership. All TVR owners I've talked to mention things like thousand pounds a time servicing bills, because there is always something to repair.
Expect to pay top whack and 100 quid an hour at the BMW dealers for the M5.
Lots of bits on the M5 don't appear on other models in the range, so spares will be rare and expensive.
Only the top end seven series [750 ?] will be more expensive than the M5 to service.
redleicester said:
ACan they cope with high miles, particularly as my aim would be to keep it forever an a day as a daily car whilst driving the TVR on high days and holidays.
An M5 should have no trouble with English roads.
Unless you spend a lot of time above 5000 rpm, expect ten years or about 200,000 miles out of them on average, provided they are looked after.
agent006 said:
Dazren may be the man to talk to. He's recently bought an 01 (i think) M5 that's had it's fair share of track action in the past. It certainly seems to be a truly excellent car.
I was lucky to recently buy an M5, in that I was able to buy a one owner car from someone I knew and trusted with a full BMWSH which had never had a shunt. The seller was upfront that the car had done three or four trackdays in the UK and 30 or so laps of the Ring (got it all listed in an email somewhere). This wasn't an issue for me as I knew the seller and his family did not thrash cars from cold.
I have never driven a Cerbera or a TVR so can't offer a comparison, but would suggest you just get out and drive an M5. Myself and Derestrictor have had a number of telephone conversations since buying my car along the lines of "I can't believe more PHers don't buy these". You can feel the weight of the car but it is still very chuckable.
I'd suggest buying on condition of the car rather than concentrating on options such as factory SatNav, phone etc... My car doesn't have the satnav screen which does affect the used prices significantly, I've heard mention of between £1.5/2k. So if you are going to make an offer on any car bear this in mind. You've got to ask yourself how often do you use the gadgets? and in my case I already had a £350 portable Garmin unit, complete with Western European maps and the ability to plan routes/tours on my PC and transfer them across to the unit. I doubt even the very latest factory fitted satnav systems have this capacity.
Derestrictor should be able to offer a more qualifed opinion comparing the cerb to the M5 as he has owned both vehicles. He has also run both vehicles over a longer period of time so should be better situated to advise on running costs:
www.pistonheads.com/members/showCar.asp?carId=10396
www.pistonheads.com/members/showCar.asp?carId=2700
Another PHer who may be able to offer advice is "Julian64" who currently owns both vehicles.
For normal road use the standard car is set up fantastically well from the factory. If you intend tracking it frequently you may need to look at upgrading the front brakes to larger discs and calipers.
I would guess that on an enthusiastically driven road car, brakes and tyres will cost more than the regular servicing over the long run.....
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Monday 1st August 23:45
To answer the question if M5s are good for high mileage, then have a look at this... www.autoscout24.be/fr-be/detail.asp?ts=4616855&id=52434584 
Doubt any TVR would be able to do 343.000 km...
I think you may need to budget a little bit more to get a '01 car, but if you do manage to get one for 20K I think it must be the best value for money buy ever!
Doubt any TVR would be able to do 343.000 km...
I think you may need to budget a little bit more to get a '01 car, but if you do manage to get one for 20K I think it must be the best value for money buy ever!
stuh said:
RedL
There was great article in EVO recently with the e39 M5 up against a cerb. I can email it across if you PM me.
The Mrs used to have a 4.5 Chim and now has an M5. You're obviously a fan of lazy V8 torque, so i would think the M5 will hit all the right buttons!
YHM :wave:
Hmmm. Lazy V8 torque. Try a Cerbera! The AJPV8 in the Cerberas is a totally different animal to the Rover derived one in the Chimaeras and Griffiths - it runs up to 7200rpm for starters, and the torque doesn't really get scary until the last 2500 of that range.
I had a Chimaera before the Cerbera, and trust me, they're both animals but the Cerb will take both legs off at once, not content itself with just the one peg! Lets face it, 0-100 in 9 seconds isn't exactly hanging about.
Still, for those lazy days, I hope the M5 will keep me content until next summer when I'll be adding to the stable once again...
I've only just last week made the daring leap from TVR Cerbera ownership to M3 Evo ownership. The lack of power and thrills is concerning me a bit but the wife and kids are happier with the BMW. Overall I don't regret it as much as I thought and my driving style has changed imenseley. I might even keep my driving licence now!!
pilmar said:
I've only just last week made the daring leap from TVR Cerbera ownership to M3 Evo ownership. The lack of power and thrills is concerning me a bit but the wife and kids are happier with the BMW. Overall I don't regret it as much as I thought and my driving style has changed imenseley. I might even keep my driving licence now!!
Yes, the E36 must seem a bit "weedy" compared to the Cerb. I loved my EVO, but you had to ring it's neck to really get it moving......M5 is an animal by comparion
>> Edited by stuh on Tuesday 2nd August 21:11
redleicester said:
RedL
There was great article in EVO recently with the e39 M5 up against a cerb. I can email it across if you PM me.
The Mrs used to have a 4.5 Chim and now has an M5. You're obviously a fan of lazy V8 torque, so i would think the M5 will hit all the right buttons!
YHM :wave:
Hmmm. Lazy V8 torque. Try a Cerbera! The AJPV8 in the Cerberas is a totally different animal to the Rover derived one in the Chimaeras and Griffiths - it runs up to 7200rpm for starters, and the torque doesn't really get scary until the last 2500 of that range.
I had a Chimaera before the Cerbera, and trust me, they're both animals but the Cerb will take both legs off at once, not content itself with just the one peg! Lets face it, 0-100 in 9 seconds isn't exactly hanging about.
Still, for those lazy days, I hope the M5 will keep me content until next summer when I'll be adding to the stable once again...
I really think the nature of the M5's delivery will surprise you. I came straight from a Noble to the M5 and once the M5 gets the weight moving the top-end pickup is quite something to behold
I'm not sure that only a big 7-series would be more expensive to service. E36 M3s have pretty much the highest standard service charges
, due to the valve clearance checks at each Inspection. The standard M5 charges are about 20-25% less. Of course, if something big goes wrong, the M5 will still empty your wallet an awful lot faster !
>> Edited by outnumbered on Wednesday 3rd August 12:02
redleicester said:
Can anyone confirm when the facelift happened, which I assume included the change over to the "angel" headlamps and the widescreen Sat-Nav?
Can either be retrofitted, and at what cost?
Facelift was 2001 MY - so late 2000 cars onwards
Angel eyes kits are available. Widescreen sta-nav can be done but at considerable cost i believe
No-one has mentioned THE BMW WARRANTY.
This is the most important optional extra to own when buying an E39 M5. The car is typically sturdy but the Vanos valve timing gear can pack up, which the warranty will cover.
Don't worry about higher mileage M5's. I sold mine with 76k on the clock and still as tight as a drum.
The clutch is weak and won't tolerate any abuse. They typically need replacing every 30k miles. Mine lasted 76k with no probs, though.
You'll find the M5 easier to live with relative to the TVR. It'll fulfil most roles in true Jekyll & Hyde style. There are also plenty of driver aids to stop you binning it in the wet, but these can be turned off.
>> Edited by hereward on Wednesday 3rd August 15:57
This is the most important optional extra to own when buying an E39 M5. The car is typically sturdy but the Vanos valve timing gear can pack up, which the warranty will cover.
Don't worry about higher mileage M5's. I sold mine with 76k on the clock and still as tight as a drum.
The clutch is weak and won't tolerate any abuse. They typically need replacing every 30k miles. Mine lasted 76k with no probs, though.
You'll find the M5 easier to live with relative to the TVR. It'll fulfil most roles in true Jekyll & Hyde style. There are also plenty of driver aids to stop you binning it in the wet, but these can be turned off.
>> Edited by hereward on Wednesday 3rd August 15:57
hereward said:
No-one has mentioned THE BMW WARRANTY. Don't worry about higher mileage M5's. I sold mine with 76k on the clock and still as tight as a drum.
The clutch is weak and won't tolerate any abuse. They typically need replacing every 30k miles. Mine lasted 76k with no probs, though.
You'll find the M5 easier to live with relative to the TVR. It'll fulfil most roles in true Jekyll & Hyde style. There are also plenty of driver aids to stop you binning it in the wet, but these can be turned off.
Thanks for that. Certainly a BMW warranty was pretty high on my list. Cerbies are supposed to eat clutches, but mine gave way last week after 28,000 which is several lifetimes in TVR land! Damn glad you can turn the nanny aids off - I think I'd get horribly bored otherwise, but it'll be nice to know when I'm shattered after a long day or the wife is driving it that it'll pootle along safely and keep everything in check.
I've had a 4litre Chimaera and then a 4.0 Litre RR Tuscan, before moving into an E36 Evo M3 and now an E46 M3. My summary, both TVR's had awesome acceleration, a great sound, head turning looks. The handling and reliability could be somewhat questionable at times, so my owenership experience was full of highs and lows. In comparison, the BMW's acceleration is quick and predictable, the handling is much better although nowhere near perfect. It's a familiar looking car, nobody stops and asks me what it is, or why I have one. Routine servicing is a doddle and in my experience cheaper due to the longer intervals.
I like the fact that the BM can cater for both aspects of my driving; it's easy to manage around town and in traffic, if want to 'press on' it is ready and able to oblige with the smallest press of the right pedal. In contrast, I found both TVR's were a bit of a pain to drive in traffic and don't get me started on parking in multistorey car parks!!
In summary, the TVR's did lots of things amazingly well but some aspects were terrible. The BMW's do everything well, nothing more, nothing less. I like mine, it will be a long time before I think about having another TVR.
I like the fact that the BM can cater for both aspects of my driving; it's easy to manage around town and in traffic, if want to 'press on' it is ready and able to oblige with the smallest press of the right pedal. In contrast, I found both TVR's were a bit of a pain to drive in traffic and don't get me started on parking in multistorey car parks!!
In summary, the TVR's did lots of things amazingly well but some aspects were terrible. The BMW's do everything well, nothing more, nothing less. I like mine, it will be a long time before I think about having another TVR.
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