E36 M3 anygood as a trackday car ?

[cosworth330]

Used to have a M3 E36 3.0 but never did a trackday in it, had to sell it for a 850R as needed more room. Anyway did a trackday recently in my cossie which was a top day, want to do more trackdays regularly & i don't think the cossie will stand up to the abuse. May get another M3 3.0 as they are a bit of a performance bargain. Anyone done a trackday in one ?

Thanks Simon.

[Zod]

I haven't (I've only driven E46s), but plenty of other people have.

[rlk500]

A lot depends on what you expect from a track car. They are heavy, which means that they are going to consume components if you drive them hard. They are front heavy so will understeer quite a bit. Now all these things can be engineered away to some degree or driven around, so it really comes down to how much you want to compromise.

Nothing intrinsically wrong with using them as a track car as long as you can live with the compromises.

[havoc]

For the cost of them, and the running costs on-track, you might be better off finding a lighter machine and tweaking it.

Say £10k to buy, £1k+ to tidy up (inc. braided hoses, full fluids change, fast-road pads, but excl. a roll-cage)

You'd need something ~200bhp/tonne to feel the same level, performance-wise, which on reflection restricts your choices a little bit. But worth expanding your scope...heavy cars do cost £££ on-track.

But, if you're set on an M3, and it'll be a real track-machine, then you can start on a weight-reduction and equalisation programme:-
- lightweight front buckets
- no rears
- no rear trim (I'd keep the front if it doens't weigh too much)
- re-locate battery to the boot
etc...

[chippy17]

cosworth330 said:

Used to have a M3 E36 3.0 but never did a trackday in it, had to sell it for a 850R as needed more room. Anyway did a trackday recently in my cossie which was a top day, want to do more trackdays regularly & i don't think the cossie will stand up to the abuse. May get another M3 3.0 as they are a bit of a performance bargain. Anyone done a trackday in one ? Thanks Simon.

if you want a BMW track car, there really is only one...

[cosworth330]

I'm not intending to buy an M3 as purely a track car,will mainly be a road car & maybe 1 trackday a month or so, i'm only intending to buy a spare set of wheels & slicks & uprate pads discs & suspension, would prefer to keep my 3dr cos but i think a 3.0 m3 engine will take a lot more stick & be reliable, what do you think ? Or the cheaper route buy a golf mk2 gti & strip it out ,cage etc & purely use for trackdays as this is a cheap car but they are so slow.

Simon.

[hongkongfooi]

chippy17 said:

cosworth330 said: Used to have a M3 E36 3.0 but never did a trackday in it, had to sell it for a 850R as needed more room. Anyway did a trackday recently in my cossie which was a top day, want to do more trackdays regularly & i don't think the cossie will stand up to the abuse. May get another M3 3.0 as they are a bit of a performance bargain. Anyone done a trackday in one ? Thanks Simon. if you want a BMW track car, there really is only one... Indeed, get yourself an E30 M3 and have ownership of the two original trackmeisters.....the E30 wops the E36 on track anyhow!

[havoc]

cosworth330 said:

I'm not intending to buy an M3 as purely a track car,will mainly be a road car & maybe 1 trackday a month or so, i'm only intending to buy a spare set of wheels & slicks & uprate pads discs & suspension, would prefer to keep my 3dr cos but i think a 3.0 m3 engine will take a lot more stick & be reliable, what do you think ? Or the cheaper route buy a golf mk2 gti & strip it out ,cage etc & purely use for trackdays as this is a cheap car but they are so slow. Simon.

OK,

Slicks: You'll need a baffled sump or risk oil surge, even with an inline engine.

Slicks: Will muller stock suspension quite quickly, so yes you'll need heavier-duty items.

Suspension: I'd imagine that these will be both £££ for the E36 and will be too hard for regular road use...I bet your missus won't even get in the passenger seat after you've fitted it!


TBH, I'm having the same dilemma with my ITR...looking to maybe turn it into a weekend toy +4-6 t/days a year. But if I do I'm leaving suspension as stock and running on road tyres (still baffle the sump and fit oil temp and pressure gauges though), as otherwise the costs will get silly.

But even this route will be quite ££. For what I can genuinely afford, I should get a nice coupe for day-to-day and a 205GTi / Mk1/2 Golf GTi / CRX Mk1 as an out-and-out track car. 180bhp in an 850kg car will keep up on the straights with everything shy of an Exige/Evo, and roll-cage/suspension/slicks will give you a LOT of cornering. Downside? FWD, and twitchy handling 'cause you've stiffened it right up...but I bet you learn a lot!!!

However, I like the feel of the 'teg on-track, so...

[iguana]

cosworth330 said:

Or the cheaper route buy a golf mk2 gti & strip it out ,cage etc & purely use for trackdays as this is a cheap car but they are so slow.

Slow!???

My arse!

Even my v v cheap VW hack, ££ wise = a lot less than e36M3 & even with a mere 200bhp/ton area its a lot swifter on track than a standard E36M3....



>> Edited by iguana on Monday 27th June 02:28

[mc_breeze]

iguana said:

cosworth330 said: Or the cheaper route buy a golf mk2 gti & strip it out ,cage etc & purely use for trackdays as this is a cheap car but they are so slow. Slow!??? My arse! Even my v v cheap VW hack, ££ wise = a lot less than e36M3 & even with a mere 200bhp/ton area its a lot swifter on track than a standard E36M3.... >> Edited by iguana on Monday 27th June 02:28

I currently own a '97 e36 M3 Evo. Granted not exactly the same car as the 3.0 model but certainly very similar.

Before I bought the M3 my daily hack was a mk2 16v Golf GTI. The car was by no means a dedicated track toy but it certainly had many of the things that would be taken for granted for track work - uprated suspension, big rear ARB, big brakes with fast road pads and grooved discs, flowed head, cam etc etc. On track I always stripped the interior to get the weight down. The Golf was RR'ed at 151bhp before the head and cam (now estimated ~ 165+).

Where is this story going? 6 Months ago I sold the mk2 to a friend. A couple of weeks ago we took both cars to Donington Park for a little track day action. The M3 was standard bar uprated pads and braided hoses.

Neither of us are particularly skilled drivers (although we are certainly competent on track) yet the M3 absolutely decimated the Golf. Not only that but I considered it a far more rewarding drive. I was very impressed - worth taking a standard car out and seeing what you want to do with it in terms of modifications. You may be surprised.

If you don't do all the work yourself uprating even a mk2 isn't cheap. For me a mk2 track car would be everything mine was with a 2.0 block, slicks, LSD, more aggressive cams and a full cage. Worth also noting that clean 3.0 M3s can be picked up for around 5.5k+ at the moment.

I considered keeping both cars at one point but I am very glad that I didn't. For me the additional cost of insuring a second car and keeping it running more than accounted for tyres/pads and general wear on the M3.

Ahh enough of my life story...

Iguana? Do I smell CGTI??

[maxf]

I wouldn't bother with slicks. You will be able to corner much faster than most other things on the track so will always be catching traffic up and getting frustrated passing slower cars. Plus you will be going much faster when you (most likely) lose it!

[iguana]

MC breeze- yip CGTI

165bhp tho? a well set up 2L valver with properly flowed head & cams etc should be in the 190-200 area.

Ive got std cams & last RR = a gants todger off 190, yeh RR diferences & all that but still 45+bhp over what it was as standard on same RR. head alone on mine equaled + 15bhp & big gains most noticable in midrange.

Slicks? well with a set of new road legal sticky track rubber at approx £530 for 4 & old used race slicks at £80 for 4 & the track life span works out to be about the same, its a tough choice when on a tight budget! They are V odd to drive on 1st time out tho.

Baffled sump, poly bushes, new top mounts etc etc tho is a MUST, oh but it does start to rip the chassis apart!

[iguana]

Anyway, back to topic, yeh I think an E36 3.0 would still be fun on track, need a little few bits like poly bushes etc sorted obviously- but IMHO wouldnt need to go too mental on hard suspension if you ran road rubber, my V8 had Eibach springs & ARBs & 3.2Evo shocks & was fine, bit stiffer would be great on track, but it still had had a lovely road ride, which would be lost a bit.

[cosworth330]

Hey thanks for the replies people. I'm sure a completely stripped & sorted 200 bhp golf would on slicks would be very good on the twisties. When i did a track day in my cossie at Brands the power was plenty fast enough ( 365 @ flywheel 337 lbs ) on the straights but cornering was a bit hairy with road tyres after a few laps. M3 was not as fast as my cossie in a straight line (had then both at the same time for a year) but i could drive the M3 a fair bit quicker point to point as its just planted better & has far superior grip levels. Only sold mine for £6250 over a year ago so now about 5k upwards for 1993 ones.
Just thought a M3 E36 would make a good road car & occasional track car as the 3.0 engines seem to be bullet proof & there's enough power to have a bit of fun on track, what else is their for £5-6 k with near on 300bhp naturally aspirated & german build quality,if i remember when i bought mine it had 255/40/17 fitted on the rear (wrong size i know) without rubbing, thats some amount of rubber onthe track !

Simon.

[iguana]

cosworth330 said:

what else is their for £5-6 k with near on 300bhp naturally aspirated & german build quality

Not N/A (but if you are used to a cossie that might not be such an issue) but 944Turbo worth a look, ive had a couple & my last one a 250 car, with rebuilt wastegate & chip & proper RR set up = 312bhp/360lbft, was £5k & inc new Mo30 supension approx £2k fitted handled & went absolutely gloriosly.

Big brakes, LSD, decent adjustable koni suspension & an 200kg area lighter than an e36M3 & a lot brisker.

Might be worth a look at a944T for ya.

[andygtt]

stick with the cossie, I had my 2wd 10yrs and whilst my M3 is a way better car, on track the cossie would slaughter it.
Of cause mine handled right with coil overs etc and had awsome stoppers (tarrox 6pots which I still have!), in the dry I could easily run rings around the 4x4 ones with lesser suspension!

My engine was built to take 500bhp but I ran 360bhp so it was only a matter of keeping it in tune to maintain reliabilty at that HP.

[wilbo]

We can build you a good spec car. We have been racing them for years. Mail me for more info.

PS> E36 M3's are cheap money now. If your going to track it don't spend 10k. They are available from 4K leaving money to develop it and then the rest is playtime money!