2008 X3 3.0D Cutting out - Dealer Lost - Doing my head in.
Discussion
Hi All
We purchased a 2008 X3 back in September on a private sale last year and it drove fine for a few months. I work overseas so my wife mentioned the car had stalled on approach to a roundabout at lowish revs,so made a mental note. It then became twice a month then twice a week then faulted daily and also started cutting out at speed on the motorway. Loss of power steering. It usually started up fine but now has faulyed withing a few hundred meters of the previous incident. Its also as likely to go for 3 days and no issues but got to a stage where both agree its unsafe and cannot be driven. The car has also stalled at speed with a click on the cruise button - one click down to keep a gap was like hitting an isolater switch.
Took the car to be checked out by a local independant - there was a sticker on the windsreen next service due etc. They specialise in German makes.
The car was known then for guess what ? Having a stalling issue. They had last seen the car Jan 2019, where they stripped down the throttle body and cleaned it - hadn't seen the cart since and to best of their knowledge assumed did the trcik . Seems the car was traded into local BMW dealers and has resurfaced.
What we have done
Ran an OBDII cheapy and got a 2621 fault code - throttle body - local independant put in a genuine new throttle body - car failed on the way home.
Its not that. They suggested take it to local BMW dealership have it checked out. So we did that. Took screen shots of the fault code. BMW took the car in on a Tuesday did 90 mins of diagnostics, had driven the car and said there was no fault and was working fine. I asked them to keep it out another night and get someone to drive it home and then it did indeed fault so they had the full on experience. On The Friday they called me to say they still could not find the fault but thought might be the fuel pump and that they could replace for about £600 fitted but no guarantee that would fix it by process of elimination. They did have the car taken home for the weekend by one of the mechanics and it was faultless the whole time.
We picked the car up on Monday and they explained that might have been a loose connection and the geneal checking of wires etc looks to have fixed the fault. Buoyed by the news I drive home - and about 150m from home the car failed approaching a speed bump. Emailed BMW so there was a record and said would monitor. Car was fine for 3 days and on the Friday my wife who has literally had 80% of the fails, with renewed hope but anxious, took the car to attend a job interview and had a disaster. Car failed 4 times on the way up to including a right hand lane filtering onto a dual carriage so couldn't pull off. Then on the return the car stalled on driving away from the lights ( Its an Auto) which nearly resulted in a rear end shunt, plus a lot of horn blasting.
It was about that exact time the weeks of frustration boiled over with my wife and unfortunatly for BMW they were on the way home. I advise her to drop the car at the dealers as its unsafe and she abandoned the car in an adjacent park as there's no way into BMW from her direction. She walked into the Fast Service Department and practically threw the keys at the service manager who was left in no doubt at her displeasure.
I have spent hours trawling the board looking and what I see is this is not a common issue but its not as uncommon as I thought. Lots of examples with as many solutions but seems as BMW said ' Throwing Parts at it' may be the only solution. I 'm happy to pay for the fault to be fixed but new fuel pump/New Injectors when it could be a failing inlet house is questioning BMW as a brand as they don't seem to be able to identify faults on their own product.. The car itself is in great condition, good spec and low mileage, drives really well and pulls a jetski effortlessy so I would much rather have it fixed and not ready to give up and cannot sell it with a known safety issue.
So if anyone has any suggestions on a possible fault where I can advise BMW to start without building a new engine piece by piece - Myself and my ong suffering wife would be truly grateful.
We purchased a 2008 X3 back in September on a private sale last year and it drove fine for a few months. I work overseas so my wife mentioned the car had stalled on approach to a roundabout at lowish revs,so made a mental note. It then became twice a month then twice a week then faulted daily and also started cutting out at speed on the motorway. Loss of power steering. It usually started up fine but now has faulyed withing a few hundred meters of the previous incident. Its also as likely to go for 3 days and no issues but got to a stage where both agree its unsafe and cannot be driven. The car has also stalled at speed with a click on the cruise button - one click down to keep a gap was like hitting an isolater switch.
Took the car to be checked out by a local independant - there was a sticker on the windsreen next service due etc. They specialise in German makes.
The car was known then for guess what ? Having a stalling issue. They had last seen the car Jan 2019, where they stripped down the throttle body and cleaned it - hadn't seen the cart since and to best of their knowledge assumed did the trcik . Seems the car was traded into local BMW dealers and has resurfaced.
What we have done
Ran an OBDII cheapy and got a 2621 fault code - throttle body - local independant put in a genuine new throttle body - car failed on the way home.
Its not that. They suggested take it to local BMW dealership have it checked out. So we did that. Took screen shots of the fault code. BMW took the car in on a Tuesday did 90 mins of diagnostics, had driven the car and said there was no fault and was working fine. I asked them to keep it out another night and get someone to drive it home and then it did indeed fault so they had the full on experience. On The Friday they called me to say they still could not find the fault but thought might be the fuel pump and that they could replace for about £600 fitted but no guarantee that would fix it by process of elimination. They did have the car taken home for the weekend by one of the mechanics and it was faultless the whole time.
We picked the car up on Monday and they explained that might have been a loose connection and the geneal checking of wires etc looks to have fixed the fault. Buoyed by the news I drive home - and about 150m from home the car failed approaching a speed bump. Emailed BMW so there was a record and said would monitor. Car was fine for 3 days and on the Friday my wife who has literally had 80% of the fails, with renewed hope but anxious, took the car to attend a job interview and had a disaster. Car failed 4 times on the way up to including a right hand lane filtering onto a dual carriage so couldn't pull off. Then on the return the car stalled on driving away from the lights ( Its an Auto) which nearly resulted in a rear end shunt, plus a lot of horn blasting.
It was about that exact time the weeks of frustration boiled over with my wife and unfortunatly for BMW they were on the way home. I advise her to drop the car at the dealers as its unsafe and she abandoned the car in an adjacent park as there's no way into BMW from her direction. She walked into the Fast Service Department and practically threw the keys at the service manager who was left in no doubt at her displeasure.
I have spent hours trawling the board looking and what I see is this is not a common issue but its not as uncommon as I thought. Lots of examples with as many solutions but seems as BMW said ' Throwing Parts at it' may be the only solution. I 'm happy to pay for the fault to be fixed but new fuel pump/New Injectors when it could be a failing inlet house is questioning BMW as a brand as they don't seem to be able to identify faults on their own product.. The car itself is in great condition, good spec and low mileage, drives really well and pulls a jetski effortlessy so I would much rather have it fixed and not ready to give up and cannot sell it with a known safety issue.
So if anyone has any suggestions on a possible fault where I can advise BMW to start without building a new engine piece by piece - Myself and my ong suffering wife would be truly grateful.
Hi,
I take it’s a diesel? If so anything fuel related would usually store a fault code.
I think you need to monitor all the fault codes in the car, not just the engine control unit.
Does it still store the throttle actuator fault? It’s just a anti-shudder shut of valve, it can be disconnected at the electrical plug to rule it out. The egr valve is next to it, this could also be disconnected, it might be sticking open
The other common faults for your symptoms are the electrical part of the ignition switch, the engine control unit relay or the engine control unit itself. They don’t normally store faults, but can store communication faults in other modules. The switch and relay are cheap parts.
I take it’s a diesel? If so anything fuel related would usually store a fault code.
I think you need to monitor all the fault codes in the car, not just the engine control unit.
Does it still store the throttle actuator fault? It’s just a anti-shudder shut of valve, it can be disconnected at the electrical plug to rule it out. The egr valve is next to it, this could also be disconnected, it might be sticking open
The other common faults for your symptoms are the electrical part of the ignition switch, the engine control unit relay or the engine control unit itself. They don’t normally store faults, but can store communication faults in other modules. The switch and relay are cheap parts.
Thanks for the prompt replies
Its had 90 mins on the BMW diagnostic and no faults read although not sure if that was when it was static
It is a 3.0 Diesel. BMW said there were no fault codes and the P2621 throttle fault was cleared off after the throttle body was replaced. Although its still performing - no fault is recorded. BMW also said there was a historical glow plug fault also cleared and I have asked them for more details but nothing back yet
Noted on the EGR, and our local independant said to us the DME Relay was a good place to start rather than the fuel pump so thats twice its been suggested
Please keep the suggestions coming - really appreciate the feedback as does my long suffering wife
Its had 90 mins on the BMW diagnostic and no faults read although not sure if that was when it was static
It is a 3.0 Diesel. BMW said there were no fault codes and the P2621 throttle fault was cleared off after the throttle body was replaced. Although its still performing - no fault is recorded. BMW also said there was a historical glow plug fault also cleared and I have asked them for more details but nothing back yet
Noted on the EGR, and our local independant said to us the DME Relay was a good place to start rather than the fuel pump so thats twice its been suggested
Please keep the suggestions coming - really appreciate the feedback as does my long suffering wife
I was suggesting you read the live data rather than looking for fault codes.
You can read the fuel trims etc. while driving around, then read can bus data etc. etc.
The graphs make it easy to see when things go out of kilter.
You can see where the EGR valve is, if it is sticking, which wont always leave a fault code.
This is the easiest and quickest way to diagnose it, otherwise you are guessing.
You can pick up a cable for your car for £20. Download the software for free.
Or buy a laptop and cable with it all installed for around £160, worth having if you are running a 12 year old BMW.
I should add, I would bet my house no one at your BMW dealership would do the above, they simply aren't taught to diagnose things anymore, only read codes and throw parts at the car.
You can read the fuel trims etc. while driving around, then read can bus data etc. etc.
The graphs make it easy to see when things go out of kilter.
You can see where the EGR valve is, if it is sticking, which wont always leave a fault code.
This is the easiest and quickest way to diagnose it, otherwise you are guessing.
You can pick up a cable for your car for £20. Download the software for free.
Or buy a laptop and cable with it all installed for around £160, worth having if you are running a 12 year old BMW.
I should add, I would bet my house no one at your BMW dealership would do the above, they simply aren't taught to diagnose things anymore, only read codes and throw parts at the car.
Edited by gizlaroc on Monday 24th February 07:20
I havent noticed a shudder but have noticed if you rev that when the needle comes back to idle it give a little shudder - doesnt always happen. No faults since the new throttle body was fitted (Genuine BMW Part)
Latest update 28th Feb. Car has been with the dealer a week. They contacted my wife on Tuesday and said they had swapped out a small part and the car was being taken home by one of the mechanics that evening. She got a call today (Friday we are 9 hours ahead of UK ) and they thought they had fixed it but on a confirmation drive it failed again. This is their next solution.......wait for it ......
Drive the car this weekend until it registers a fault code.
So call me thick but we drove it for a few days with probably 15 fails and no code so whats happening this weekend thats different ?.
Lets be honest here - they do not have a clue unless the car can tell them what the issue is. Maybe I need to call BMW HQ and they can run a competition to fix the fault for their best mechs
I will send them a few screenshots on the advice above but sad day when a prestige brand cannot repair one of its own products.
I might have to start a blog - The car they couldn' t fix
Latest update 28th Feb. Car has been with the dealer a week. They contacted my wife on Tuesday and said they had swapped out a small part and the car was being taken home by one of the mechanics that evening. She got a call today (Friday we are 9 hours ahead of UK ) and they thought they had fixed it but on a confirmation drive it failed again. This is their next solution.......wait for it ......
Drive the car this weekend until it registers a fault code.
So call me thick but we drove it for a few days with probably 15 fails and no code so whats happening this weekend thats different ?.
Lets be honest here - they do not have a clue unless the car can tell them what the issue is. Maybe I need to call BMW HQ and they can run a competition to fix the fault for their best mechs
I will send them a few screenshots on the advice above but sad day when a prestige brand cannot repair one of its own products.
I might have to start a blog - The car they couldn' t fix
I think Gizlaroc’s advice, would probably be my first route.
When trying to think of faults that might not necessarily throw up a DTC... Lack of air or fuel. A lot of the times, there’s two sensors for each, and the ECU will look for a difference between the 2 sensors. However, if there’s a fault pre/post the 1st/2nd sensor, then the fault may not get logged.
A knackered ECU, or the ECU’s power dropping off momentarily.
I’d love to have seen that throttle body DTC. The fact that it’s not coming back though, after the throttle’s been replaced, is suggesting there was nothing wrong with the original.
That said, if I was to take the customer’s/ ‘garage that did the work’s, word as gospel, I’d now be checking for open pins at the throttle body and at the other end. I’m guessing it goes back to the engine ecu, and/or a feed from a fuse.
Intermittent faults like yours, are a pain in the arse. Especially at BMW’s hourly rate.
When trying to think of faults that might not necessarily throw up a DTC... Lack of air or fuel. A lot of the times, there’s two sensors for each, and the ECU will look for a difference between the 2 sensors. However, if there’s a fault pre/post the 1st/2nd sensor, then the fault may not get logged.
A knackered ECU, or the ECU’s power dropping off momentarily.
I’d love to have seen that throttle body DTC. The fact that it’s not coming back though, after the throttle’s been replaced, is suggesting there was nothing wrong with the original.
That said, if I was to take the customer’s/ ‘garage that did the work’s, word as gospel, I’d now be checking for open pins at the throttle body and at the other end. I’m guessing it goes back to the engine ecu, and/or a feed from a fuse.
Intermittent faults like yours, are a pain in the arse. Especially at BMW’s hourly rate.
Mudman350Z said:
They suggested take it to local BMW dealership have it checked out.
This bit seems odd to me. I'm more of a Mercedes guy and in some cases if the dealer gets stuck on a car, especially an older one, they take it to an indie to sort out, although they would be an MB specialist. Is there not the same kind of specialist in the BMW world?
unfortunately us in the motor trade see stuff like this from time to time but its he only way to deal with an intermittent fault like this especially a no fault code stored issue , only fools fire the parts cannon 
Sheepshanks said:
This bit seems odd to me. I'm more of a Mercedes guy and in some cases if the dealer gets stuck on a car, especially an older one, they take it to an indie to sort out, although they would be an MB specialist. Is there not the same kind of specialist in the BMW world?
There are loads around, if the OP gives us his location im sure we can all suggestion a few. BMW's diagnostic ability leaves a lot to be desired. I mean, how many that work in the dealer currently have actually been trained on the 2008 M57 engine, or the e82 X3. None probably. Which is why an Independent and/or buying your own diagnostics is worthwhile.First things first OP, wrap your head around how the M57 works as an engine, this guide is likely to be mostly 35d related instead of 30d, being that its US, but itll give you an idea of all the systems that go into making the engine work: https://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?a...
With regards to the stalling, is it an electrical power loss issue, ie the dash goes crazy/powers down, or purely the engine cutting out? I ask as you say power steering was lost at one point.
Re: the throttle body/anti-shudder valve, all that does on a diesel is turn it off asap in the event of a runaway, so replacing it was probably a pointlesss exercise. You ideally need to be monitoring the fueling via INPA etc whilst driving around. Injector issues wouldnt cause the car to stall, unless all failed at once, they would be more misfire related, glow plugs dont have a bearing on running after starting. The anti-shudder valve/throttle body will shut the engine off/stall the car as will a stuck open EGR valve.
In the absence of INPA, perhaps try unplugging the EGR/throttle body and taking it for a quick run?
The reason I asked if it was shuddering was I wanted to know why the garage change the throttle body? Unless it was shuddering when stopping it seemed a weird thing to do.
The problem is as far as getting cross with BMW is you have a 12 year old car, not bought from them, with hard to track issues, which might even be related to something the previous owner has done.
If it were my car I would buy a laptop from eBay with cable for £150, and plug it in and data log.
In fact I would reset all engine adaptations, which may make it worse, but if it does it will probably then log codes.
How old is the fuel filter? Could be fuel not getting through.
Can you smell exhaust fumes from the engine bay? Cracked manifold.
As Dave says, unplug the EGR first, and see if it happens. You will get an EML on the dash, but will run fine.
The problem is as far as getting cross with BMW is you have a 12 year old car, not bought from them, with hard to track issues, which might even be related to something the previous owner has done.
If it were my car I would buy a laptop from eBay with cable for £150, and plug it in and data log.
In fact I would reset all engine adaptations, which may make it worse, but if it does it will probably then log codes.
How old is the fuel filter? Could be fuel not getting through.
Can you smell exhaust fumes from the engine bay? Cracked manifold.
As Dave says, unplug the EGR first, and see if it happens. You will get an EML on the dash, but will run fine.
I’m a Brit overseas and in Papua New Guinea, the car is on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland and I only get back for a few days a month but prefer to trust the forums I have used before before I left Blighty
Sounds daft but probably cheaper to fly someone out from UK than pay BMW rates and parts that’s the farcical nature of the problem but please keep the suggestions coming most of what’s coming up here I am relaying back. I have a 350z back in the UK and confident tinkering with that but BMW well out of my league
Sounds daft but probably cheaper to fly someone out from UK than pay BMW rates and parts that’s the farcical nature of the problem but please keep the suggestions coming most of what’s coming up here I am relaying back. I have a 350z back in the UK and confident tinkering with that but BMW well out of my league
If that is the case. I would seriously suggest buying a cheap windows laptop and cable with the software loaded and have a go with it.
It should show anything out of the ordinary pretty quickly.
If you have a laptop already, buy a cable and install the software, we can provide links.
It should show anything out of the ordinary pretty quickly.
If you have a laptop already, buy a cable and install the software, we can provide links.
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