BMW 120d (F20) Brake Judder
Discussion
Hi Guys,
I have a 120d xdrive, and have been at war with brake judder for the past few months.
When I first noticed it i took it to my indi and they diagnosed warped discs. Pads and discs were replaced all round and there was no more judder.
2000 miles later, judder was back. Went back to garage, replaced discs again under warranty. No more judder, happy days.
Another 2000 miles; the same story and replaced again.
I am now into my third set of discs and I have got judder back. Also, last week the front nearside caliper was sticking. I got the wheel and caliper off and tried to push the piston back in. I couldn’t do this without cracking the bleed. I asked my garage to replace the hose and caliper to eliminate these.
These have been replaced and a dti has been used on discs and they are not warped. Judder is still present and seems quite violent at higher speeds.
Sometimes the judder isn’t there which is puzzling me, can this be an ABS fault? Even though abs light isn’t on and the car is spitting out no codes?
Need ideas; thanks guys
I have a 120d xdrive, and have been at war with brake judder for the past few months.
When I first noticed it i took it to my indi and they diagnosed warped discs. Pads and discs were replaced all round and there was no more judder.
2000 miles later, judder was back. Went back to garage, replaced discs again under warranty. No more judder, happy days.
Another 2000 miles; the same story and replaced again.
I am now into my third set of discs and I have got judder back. Also, last week the front nearside caliper was sticking. I got the wheel and caliper off and tried to push the piston back in. I couldn’t do this without cracking the bleed. I asked my garage to replace the hose and caliper to eliminate these.
These have been replaced and a dti has been used on discs and they are not warped. Judder is still present and seems quite violent at higher speeds.
Sometimes the judder isn’t there which is puzzling me, can this be an ABS fault? Even though abs light isn’t on and the car is spitting out no codes?
Need ideas; thanks guys
Discs don’t warp, its usually pad deposits on them causing the vibrations. Some heavy, but safe braking will usually rid the discs/pads of the build ups. Do some google research on this, plenty of info out there 
Imo if you’re still having these issues, I’d say you’ve one or a few sticking callipers. May be worth getting them all checked and having fresh fluid through the system and see how that goes.
You could look to get them all replaced via the likes of Brakes International who sell fully refurbed callipers etc
Imo if you’re still having these issues, I’d say you’ve one or a few sticking callipers. May be worth getting them all checked and having fresh fluid through the system and see how that goes.
You could look to get them all replaced via the likes of Brakes International who sell fully refurbed callipers etc
I had this on mine but it disappeared again by itself. Pretty sure it was deposits left on the discs. As someone else said, some hard braking usually gets rid of it. Apparently, it can be caused by leaving your foot on the brake pedal when you've come to a halt after braking from speed - but that's what you do if you have an automatic. Another reason to dislike automatics!
RichardJS said:
I had this on mine but it disappeared again by itself. Pretty sure it was deposits left on the discs. As someone else said, some hard braking usually gets rid of it. Apparently, it can be caused by leaving your foot on the brake pedal when you've come to a halt after braking from speed - but that's what you do if you have an automatic. Another reason to dislike automatics!
b
ks; you simply apply the handbrake or put the car into parkI've never had an issue with taking my foot off the brakes in any of my autos; I do the same in a manual, handbrake on, into neutral etc
Keeping your foot on the brakes is poor driving habits; not an issue with the car
Had the same happen to me, albeit on my then E87.
I had new discs and pads fitted (pagid) and got a terrible shimmy/judder on the brakes, I was over in Italy driving around and had to live with them for two weeks...anyway...
Had the discs changed, not the pads upon my return and all was fixed, my mechanic said the discs were slightly misshaped, so not sure I believe the notion brake discs cant warp...
I heard about the pad debris build up (googled it when i was over there), so did some very high speed braking while I was in the alps, but nothing could improve them.
I had new discs and pads fitted (pagid) and got a terrible shimmy/judder on the brakes, I was over in Italy driving around and had to live with them for two weeks...anyway...
Had the discs changed, not the pads upon my return and all was fixed, my mechanic said the discs were slightly misshaped, so not sure I believe the notion brake discs cant warp...
I heard about the pad debris build up (googled it when i was over there), so did some very high speed braking while I was in the alps, but nothing could improve them.
It would take a huge amount of heat to warp brake discs, more than the pads can create.
However, one tiny spec of crap behind the disc and on the hub face can cause all sorts of issues; the cleaning of these 2 mating surfaces, thoroughly, is often overlooked at garages etc...
Discs/pads that aren't bedded in properly can cause issues too; akin to what people think are warped discs, again, some heavy but safe braking can sort this, to get the pads faces flat again and rid any built up deposits etc
However, one tiny spec of crap behind the disc and on the hub face can cause all sorts of issues; the cleaning of these 2 mating surfaces, thoroughly, is often overlooked at garages etc...
Discs/pads that aren't bedded in properly can cause issues too; akin to what people think are warped discs, again, some heavy but safe braking can sort this, to get the pads faces flat again and rid any built up deposits etc
Thanks for replies guys...
I should mention; I’ve had the car since it was 2 years old, and had 3 years of no braking issues. I have the standard (non m-performance) brakes.
I admit I used to leave my foot on the brakes when stationary, but haven’t for 12 months + now. Just stick it in neutral and apply the handbrake now.
I’ve tried the heavy braking process, braking from 70 multiple times, slightly harder each time but not coming to a complete stop.
Have had all the wheels And discs off myself to checked for flush hub surface. Had all abs sensors out, cleaned etc.
Finally; it’s a manual transmission.
Getting to the point where I don’t want to throw any more money at it because I have no confidence the issue will go.
I should mention; I’ve had the car since it was 2 years old, and had 3 years of no braking issues. I have the standard (non m-performance) brakes.
I admit I used to leave my foot on the brakes when stationary, but haven’t for 12 months + now. Just stick it in neutral and apply the handbrake now.
I’ve tried the heavy braking process, braking from 70 multiple times, slightly harder each time but not coming to a complete stop.
Have had all the wheels And discs off myself to checked for flush hub surface. Had all abs sensors out, cleaned etc.
Finally; it’s a manual transmission.
Getting to the point where I don’t want to throw any more money at it because I have no confidence the issue will go.
Lum1 said:
Thanks for replies guys...
I should mention; I’ve had the car since it was 2 years old, and had 3 years of no braking issues. I have the standard (non m-performance) brakes.
I admit I used to leave my foot on the brakes when stationary, but haven’t for 12 months + now. Just stick it in neutral and apply the handbrake now.
I’ve tried the heavy braking process, braking from 70 multiple times, slightly harder each time but not coming to a complete stop.
Have had all the wheels And discs off myself to checked for flush hub surface. Had all abs sensors out, cleaned etc.
Finally; it’s a manual transmission.
Getting to the point where I don’t want to throw any more money at it because I have no confidence the issue will go.
Might sound a waste of money; but have you tried brake discs and pads from the likes of Eurocarparts (Textar, Brembo etc) to see if they cause any issues?I should mention; I’ve had the car since it was 2 years old, and had 3 years of no braking issues. I have the standard (non m-performance) brakes.
I admit I used to leave my foot on the brakes when stationary, but haven’t for 12 months + now. Just stick it in neutral and apply the handbrake now.
I’ve tried the heavy braking process, braking from 70 multiple times, slightly harder each time but not coming to a complete stop.
Have had all the wheels And discs off myself to checked for flush hub surface. Had all abs sensors out, cleaned etc.
Finally; it’s a manual transmission.
Getting to the point where I don’t want to throw any more money at it because I have no confidence the issue will go.
It sounds like you do ok with spanners etc; so that could be an option. But as I'd already said above as well; I do think the calipers need to be looked over to ensure they're working correctly and not sticking/corroding internally around the pistons etc
Lum1. I had the same issue. Didn’t have my car from new either but as you’ve said it didn’t do it when I first got it either.
Mine was under warranty at the time but ended going back 5/6 times. Each time it was ok for 6ish wks before the judder came back.
Replaced all discs twice
Replaced all pads twice
Replaced all hubs.
Wheels checked for cracks, buckles, balancing. Etc
Brake fluid changed
New front callipers
I was convinced it was from the front. I’m 95% sure
(Not 100% as had that much work done) that it was the rear callipers.
The reason it was ok for a while after work was done was due to the callipers being removed for work to be done eg change pads/discs. I don’t think the piston was sticking to the extent that the pads touched discs (no heat) but simply not sliding properly.
As a cheap attempt try removing and fully greasing the piston/callipers but don’t change the pads. If that sorts it short term but comes back (as mine did) then it’s new callipers. Also check the little metal plate that clips in at the back.
What I can say is I’m 12/18 months on and I have zero judder now. Certainly cheaper than changing the car.
Good luck.
Mine was under warranty at the time but ended going back 5/6 times. Each time it was ok for 6ish wks before the judder came back.
Replaced all discs twice
Replaced all pads twice
Replaced all hubs.
Wheels checked for cracks, buckles, balancing. Etc
Brake fluid changed
New front callipers
I was convinced it was from the front. I’m 95% sure
(Not 100% as had that much work done) that it was the rear callipers.
The reason it was ok for a while after work was done was due to the callipers being removed for work to be done eg change pads/discs. I don’t think the piston was sticking to the extent that the pads touched discs (no heat) but simply not sliding properly.
As a cheap attempt try removing and fully greasing the piston/callipers but don’t change the pads. If that sorts it short term but comes back (as mine did) then it’s new callipers. Also check the little metal plate that clips in at the back.
What I can say is I’m 12/18 months on and I have zero judder now. Certainly cheaper than changing the car.
Good luck.
Had the same issue with Pagid pads - bought as a set together with Brembo discs. Changed the lot after 2k miles only for the judder to return. Then just changed the pads for a harder compound - can't recall if it was Lockheed or ATE and it took a good few thousand miles to wear the old pads deposits off.
Edited by naturalaspiration on Saturday 11th May 16:34
I had similar with my 2011 E91 3 series - started when replacing the original discs pads with generic (cheap) from my local independent tyre depot. Fine for a few thousand miles, then terrible juddering started, replaced, fine again for similar time.
I replaced them myself with genuine BMW discs and pads, and did every time it needed them after that, and never had ANY problems at all, had the car up to 190000 miles!
I replaced them myself with genuine BMW discs and pads, and did every time it needed them after that, and never had ANY problems at all, had the car up to 190000 miles!
Just an update... after suggestions I have replaced all pads and discs again today myself. All sliding pins greased nicely.
After 50 miles, to my horror, the judder is back and exactly the same as the previous pads/discs. Genuine bmw discs and pads installed so a bit gutted really...
After 50 miles, to my horror, the judder is back and exactly the same as the previous pads/discs. Genuine bmw discs and pads installed so a bit gutted really...
Is it at all speeds?
I get a terrible judder on my F11 5 Series, but only when braking pretty hard or quickly, and normally when going a bit faster, from around 60mph and really noticeable from around 80mph.
I had this before when I had different tyres front and rear fitted on our E61, the different treads was causes the judder. After getting all tyres matched it went.
I have different tyres front and rear on this car too, so not even going to look at the brakes until I have matching fronts fitted.
Have you got the same tyres on both axles?
I get a terrible judder on my F11 5 Series, but only when braking pretty hard or quickly, and normally when going a bit faster, from around 60mph and really noticeable from around 80mph.
I had this before when I had different tyres front and rear fitted on our E61, the different treads was causes the judder. After getting all tyres matched it went.
I have different tyres front and rear on this car too, so not even going to look at the brakes until I have matching fronts fitted.
Have you got the same tyres on both axles?
Lum1 said:
Just an update... after suggestions I have replaced all pads and discs again today myself. All sliding pins greased nicely.
After 50 miles, to my horror, the judder is back and6 exactly the same as the previous pads/discs. Genuine bmw discs and pads installed so a bit gutted really...
6After 50 miles, to my horror, the judder is back and6 exactly the same as the previous pads/discs. Genuine bmw discs and pads installed so a bit gutted really...
I would now start suspecting worn front arm bushings. Pad deposit on a disc being formed after only 50 miles do not seey very likely.
But first thing first - your wheels and tyres have been checked for balance (must be an absolute 0 and not at +/-5g tolerance ) and no physical deformations?
gizlaroc said:
Is it at all speeds?
I get a terrible judder on my F11 5 Series, but only when braking pretty hard or quickly, and normally when going a bit faster, from around 60mph and really noticeable from around 80mph.
I had this before when I had different tyres front and rear fitted on our E61, the different treads was causes the judder. After getting all tyres matched it went.
I have different tyres front and rear on this car too, so not even going to look at the brakes until I have matching fronts fitted.
Have you got the same tyres on both axles?
It’s happening at all speeds but gets more noticeable as the speed increases. I have the same nexen tyres on all four corners. But had the same juddering issues on my last set of UniRoyals. I get a terrible judder on my F11 5 Series, but only when braking pretty hard or quickly, and normally when going a bit faster, from around 60mph and really noticeable from around 80mph.
I had this before when I had different tyres front and rear fitted on our E61, the different treads was causes the judder. After getting all tyres matched it went.
I have different tyres front and rear on this car too, so not even going to look at the brakes until I have matching fronts fitted.
Have you got the same tyres on both axles?
naturalaspiration said:
Lum1 said:
Just an update... after suggestions I have replaced all pads and discs again today myself. All sliding pins greased nicely.
After 50 miles, to my horror, the judder is back and6 exactly the same as the previous pads/discs. Genuine bmw discs and pads installed so a bit gutted really...
6After 50 miles, to my horror, the judder is back and6 exactly the same as the previous pads/discs. Genuine bmw discs and pads installed so a bit gutted really...
I would now start suspecting worn front arm bushings. Pad deposit on a disc being formed after only 50 miles do not seey very likely.
But first thing first - your wheels and tyres have been checked for balance (must be an absolute 0 and not at +/-5g tolerance ) and no physical deformations?
Nothing visible to my eye that I can see on the wheel/tyres. If it were a wheel buckled or balancing issue, would I get vibrations at motorway speed, not only when braking?
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