188,000miles. Rebuilding my e46 330ci
Discussion
I've had my X Reg 330ci m sport for almost 3 years now. Bought her with 118k and now pushing 190k. She was LPG converted when I bought her and as a result I get 58mpg for the equivalent money. So I get 230bhp, almost 60mpg and BMW driving characteristics. I only paid £3000 for her, so she owes me very little.
I've always maintained her to spec using a local Indy and recently I've done all the bushes, shocks springs and dampers. Drives like a new car and I love driving her.
Recently the power had dropped, so I booked her in for a check over where a compression check was done. Cylinders 3 and 5 were down a little, but still fine. Gearbox ok, a few messages (auto), but the loss of power was the exhaust flap being rusted closed. Now that's been levered open, she is better than ever. The only bad bit..... And it a big one, is that the inspection showed a 4inch long crack near the rear subframe mounting. Therefore, logically , she would be a right off, strip her for parts and sell them, put into another car.
Having done all the calcs, and we all know that cars are generally sold because here is something wrong with them, I've concluded that I'd rather keep a car that I know and make it good.
So monocock repair with reddish strengthening plates is £1400, bushes, diff seals and brake pipe replacement, braided hoses, new brake fluid: £500.
Treat first signs of rust on arches and general blow over £1200
Engine reconditioning: £1200 + labour if I can't find the time (16month old)
Gearbox reconditioning £1500 (anyone have experience of this)
New stereo and speakers £600
Total: £6400.
Now that sounds a lot, but mechanically she will be like new. I can't buy a car that is that mechanically sorted for £6k, so this must make sense, doesn't it??
Will I be able to get an agreed value from my insurers should the worse happen?
Your opinions please.
Cheers,
Martin
P.s. I have rebuild engines and complete cars, so I appreciate the physical time and effort in doing some of these jobs, but due to baby, I'm paying other to do most of the work. I also have a second car to use while she is off the road.
I've always maintained her to spec using a local Indy and recently I've done all the bushes, shocks springs and dampers. Drives like a new car and I love driving her.
Recently the power had dropped, so I booked her in for a check over where a compression check was done. Cylinders 3 and 5 were down a little, but still fine. Gearbox ok, a few messages (auto), but the loss of power was the exhaust flap being rusted closed. Now that's been levered open, she is better than ever. The only bad bit..... And it a big one, is that the inspection showed a 4inch long crack near the rear subframe mounting. Therefore, logically , she would be a right off, strip her for parts and sell them, put into another car.
Having done all the calcs, and we all know that cars are generally sold because here is something wrong with them, I've concluded that I'd rather keep a car that I know and make it good.
So monocock repair with reddish strengthening plates is £1400, bushes, diff seals and brake pipe replacement, braided hoses, new brake fluid: £500.
Treat first signs of rust on arches and general blow over £1200
Engine reconditioning: £1200 + labour if I can't find the time (16month old)
Gearbox reconditioning £1500 (anyone have experience of this)
New stereo and speakers £600
Total: £6400.
Now that sounds a lot, but mechanically she will be like new. I can't buy a car that is that mechanically sorted for £6k, so this must make sense, doesn't it??
Will I be able to get an agreed value from my insurers should the worse happen?
Your opinions please.
Cheers,
Martin
P.s. I have rebuild engines and complete cars, so I appreciate the physical time and effort in doing some of these jobs, but due to baby, I'm paying other to do most of the work. I also have a second car to use while she is off the road.
rb5er said:
MPETT said:
I can't buy a car that is that mechanically sorted for £6k, so this must make sense, doesn't it??
No it makes zero sense. You are mental.Also yes you can but lots of perfectly maintained cars for £6k.
Thirdly, surely this is just a windup post. Nobody is that stupid.
And what's all the 'she' and 'her' it's a car FFS. An 'it'.
And it's 'monocoque' though I think there may well be a monocock in this thread.........
I understand the desire to keep a car that you know and trust running, even the willingness to spend far more than it will ever be worth.
However no insurance company will agree to insure it for the value of the work done rather than the market value of the vehicle.
My e36 was a car that I was perfectly happy with and happy to maintain to the highest standards, even at 172k and 17 years old. My friends thought I was mad to keep such an old car running in this manner, financial lunacy. To my mind, it was a car that was not losing value any longer and was owned out right. I had driven over 110k in it over the 9 years that I had it and had receipts for everything ever done to it.
They I nice young lady failed to work her brakes properly and rear ended it at a relatively low speed. The insurance company would only pay out what their book said the car was worth, refusing to budge despite me sending links to all the adds I could find showing older cars with lower spec and less history, all for considerably more.
They refused to pay for repairs purely due to their valuation of the car, not because the damage was severe. Had it been a new car, they would have simply repaired it.
By all means spend your hard earned in any way you see fit, but be aware that if someone crashes into it you will be out of pocket.
However no insurance company will agree to insure it for the value of the work done rather than the market value of the vehicle.
My e36 was a car that I was perfectly happy with and happy to maintain to the highest standards, even at 172k and 17 years old. My friends thought I was mad to keep such an old car running in this manner, financial lunacy. To my mind, it was a car that was not losing value any longer and was owned out right. I had driven over 110k in it over the 9 years that I had it and had receipts for everything ever done to it.
They I nice young lady failed to work her brakes properly and rear ended it at a relatively low speed. The insurance company would only pay out what their book said the car was worth, refusing to budge despite me sending links to all the adds I could find showing older cars with lower spec and less history, all for considerably more.
They refused to pay for repairs purely due to their valuation of the car, not because the damage was severe. Had it been a new car, they would have simply repaired it.
By all means spend your hard earned in any way you see fit, but be aware that if someone crashes into it you will be out of pocket.
I understand the desire to keep a car that you know and trust running, even the willingness to spend far more than it will ever be worth.
However no insurance company will agree to insure it for the value of the work done rather than the market value of the vehicle.
My e36 was a car that I was perfectly happy with and happy to maintain to the highest standards, even at 172k and 17 years old. My friends thought I was mad to keep such an old car running in this manner, financial lunacy. To my mind, it was a car that was not losing value any longer and was owned out right. I had driven over 110k in it over the 9 years that I had it and had receipts for everything ever done to it.
They I nice young lady failed to work her brakes properly and rear ended it at a relatively low speed. The insurance company would only pay out what their book said the car was worth, refusing to budge despite me sending links to all the adds I could find showing older cars with lower spec and less history, all for considerably more.
They refused to pay for repairs purely due to their valuation of the car, not because the damage was severe. Had it been a new car, they would have simply repaired it.
By all means spend your hard earned in any way you see fit, but be aware that if someone crashes into it you will be out of pocket.
However no insurance company will agree to insure it for the value of the work done rather than the market value of the vehicle.
My e36 was a car that I was perfectly happy with and happy to maintain to the highest standards, even at 172k and 17 years old. My friends thought I was mad to keep such an old car running in this manner, financial lunacy. To my mind, it was a car that was not losing value any longer and was owned out right. I had driven over 110k in it over the 9 years that I had it and had receipts for everything ever done to it.
They I nice young lady failed to work her brakes properly and rear ended it at a relatively low speed. The insurance company would only pay out what their book said the car was worth, refusing to budge despite me sending links to all the adds I could find showing older cars with lower spec and less history, all for considerably more.
They refused to pay for repairs purely due to their valuation of the car, not because the damage was severe. Had it been a new car, they would have simply repaired it.
By all means spend your hard earned in any way you see fit, but be aware that if someone crashes into it you will be out of pocket.
I understand why the OP wants to do this (I'd consider doing the same, if the car had sentimental value to me). However, I'd never try to justify the decision financially, because I know that however I look at the figures, it would never make sense - it would be a purely emotional decision. Plus, as others have said, there is the risk that the car will be written off and all the hard work/financial investment in the car would go down the drain.
So, OP, it's your choice but if you do decide to go ahead with this don't expect other people to understand why.
So, OP, it's your choice but if you do decide to go ahead with this don't expect other people to understand why.
I was in a similar position a year ago with an e46 that had 150k on the clock. I loved it but it needed a few grand spending to make it great again.
I part ex'd it for an e92 and haven't looked back. Your car will still be an x reg e46 with 190k on the clock.
I understand your emotional and financial attachment, but if it was me, I'd cut my losses and move on.
I part ex'd it for an e92 and haven't looked back. Your car will still be an x reg e46 with 190k on the clock.
I understand your emotional and financial attachment, but if it was me, I'd cut my losses and move on.
Wow. I was expecting a bit of backfire and scepticism, but the insults are out of order! (rb5er and REALIST123).
The best argument against, was that if someone crashed into me I would loose my investment. I spoke to an insurers who insures my TVR today. (a reputable insurance broker). They said that as long as there is an agreed value, then they would pay out that amount. When I inquired who could make that valuation, the answer was any garage can write a letter on headed paper stating what it would cost to replace the car for an equivalent. This can be based on condition, mileage or whatever.
So does that change things?
Mileage is indicative of the condition of a car, but is not the ultimate indicator. How many parts need replacing by new ones before it is considered new/good enough to be as reliable as a new car?
Plenty of people restore cars. They don't always do it as an investment. Very few cars are worth more than the cost of their restoration. Yeah, its an 330ci, but its a great all round package. Are newer BMWs really that much better? Better commuters?
Its interesting that so far the overwhelming feedback is don't throw your money away. But, considering new car purchasing, the moment you drive a new car off a forecourt, you will write off at least 10% and probably be paying in accesss of 6% for the privilege of borrowing money. The quotes I've had on the cars I would like to own will cost me in excess of £4k to borrow money and I'll then need to borrow more money for the final payment (PCP) that will be in the region of £2-3K for that loan too.
It might seem like I've been talking like I'm emotionally attached to the car, but really its a saving money approach. At the end of the day, I don't need any more from a commuting car, I'm happy with what I have.
Its an interesting debate (for me at least). Its all about perceived value. The value of my car is much higher to me than anyone else, based on current market prices. But if I can get back (at least 50%) of my investment should an accident occur, then its not that bad a decision really. Loads of people spend thousands on improving their cars that they will never see back, but we all are in favour of that type of spending! (as car enthusiasts).
(debate stirred up again, step back and watch the view come in
The best argument against, was that if someone crashed into me I would loose my investment. I spoke to an insurers who insures my TVR today. (a reputable insurance broker). They said that as long as there is an agreed value, then they would pay out that amount. When I inquired who could make that valuation, the answer was any garage can write a letter on headed paper stating what it would cost to replace the car for an equivalent. This can be based on condition, mileage or whatever.
So does that change things?
Mileage is indicative of the condition of a car, but is not the ultimate indicator. How many parts need replacing by new ones before it is considered new/good enough to be as reliable as a new car?
Plenty of people restore cars. They don't always do it as an investment. Very few cars are worth more than the cost of their restoration. Yeah, its an 330ci, but its a great all round package. Are newer BMWs really that much better? Better commuters?
Its interesting that so far the overwhelming feedback is don't throw your money away. But, considering new car purchasing, the moment you drive a new car off a forecourt, you will write off at least 10% and probably be paying in accesss of 6% for the privilege of borrowing money. The quotes I've had on the cars I would like to own will cost me in excess of £4k to borrow money and I'll then need to borrow more money for the final payment (PCP) that will be in the region of £2-3K for that loan too.
It might seem like I've been talking like I'm emotionally attached to the car, but really its a saving money approach. At the end of the day, I don't need any more from a commuting car, I'm happy with what I have.
Its an interesting debate (for me at least). Its all about perceived value. The value of my car is much higher to me than anyone else, based on current market prices. But if I can get back (at least 50%) of my investment should an accident occur, then its not that bad a decision really. Loads of people spend thousands on improving their cars that they will never see back, but we all are in favour of that type of spending! (as car enthusiasts).
(debate stirred up again, step back and watch the view come in
I just don't see the point where you could get a much fresher identical car for much less.
3k will for example buy you one the same age with 150k less on it. 6k will buy you the same car but newer *and* with far less miles.
No matter how much you spend freshening it up you are >70k past the expected EOL for the car, things *will* wear out as they have exceeded their design life and you will spend far again to keep it in a "good" state.
3k will for example buy you one the same age with 150k less on it. 6k will buy you the same car but newer *and* with far less miles.
No matter how much you spend freshening it up you are >70k past the expected EOL for the car, things *will* wear out as they have exceeded their design life and you will spend far again to keep it in a "good" state.
phil_cardiff said:
If you love your car then why not make it as good as you possibly can? That's part of being a petrolhead isn't it?
Not the question asked. The question asked was "this must sense, doesn't it?".The answer is no.
Sure, spend what you want on it but don't expect it to make sense because it doesn't.
I'd very much question whether a letter from a garage would have your insurance company paying out their valuation on the car.
From what I've read in the past, of those unfortunate enough to have a car written off it seems getting market value for the car is hard enough let alone getting £6-7.5k for a car that the insurers will have a book value of less than £2k.
Good luck if you go ahead, personally I'd be having a very comprehensive chat with your insurance company first.
FWIW - nice cars but i wouldn't sink £6k into the one you have, there is still the potential for an expensive fail after you spend the money.
As has been said, I'd take your time, hunt through the classifieds and find a newer well maintained car (that'll be a challenge in itself)
for £5k and have a £1k slush fund.
Good luck with whatever you decide ! I loved mine when i had one.
From what I've read in the past, of those unfortunate enough to have a car written off it seems getting market value for the car is hard enough let alone getting £6-7.5k for a car that the insurers will have a book value of less than £2k.
Good luck if you go ahead, personally I'd be having a very comprehensive chat with your insurance company first.
FWIW - nice cars but i wouldn't sink £6k into the one you have, there is still the potential for an expensive fail after you spend the money.
As has been said, I'd take your time, hunt through the classifieds and find a newer well maintained car (that'll be a challenge in itself)
for £5k and have a £1k slush fund.
Good luck with whatever you decide ! I loved mine when i had one.
You really shouldn't do this. You say that one of the reasons to spend the money is because you know the car. Based on the fact that the subframe is cracked, it is rusting and the gearbox has errors the knowledge is that it needs lots of work.
If you want an E46 (and I am an owner and fan so get it) you could almost take your pick of what's for sale based on the budget you are talking about. Whilst there are plenty of dogs out there, there are also a few pampered cars where only ongoing maintenance is required.
A late facelift 330 sport in any bodystyle with sensible mileage would be a better bet. Moving on the car you know and love is tough but once in the seat of a better replacement the decision is vindicated.
If you want an E46 (and I am an owner and fan so get it) you could almost take your pick of what's for sale based on the budget you are talking about. Whilst there are plenty of dogs out there, there are also a few pampered cars where only ongoing maintenance is required.
A late facelift 330 sport in any bodystyle with sensible mileage would be a better bet. Moving on the car you know and love is tough but once in the seat of a better replacement the decision is vindicated.
Why not try and get another that has had already had this work done?
I got my 540i 6 months after the previous owner spent £6k on a whole host of things....I payed less than half that for the whole car and it still hasn't stopped me from spending a further £2.5k on odds and sods (autobox, alternator, battery, arches/boot) since...
Also I see nothing in the budget for a suspension refresh and other ancillaries....
I got my 540i 6 months after the previous owner spent £6k on a whole host of things....I payed less than half that for the whole car and it still hasn't stopped me from spending a further £2.5k on odds and sods (autobox, alternator, battery, arches/boot) since...
Also I see nothing in the budget for a suspension refresh and other ancillaries....
I considered doing this too but ended up letting go and moving on for all the reasons outlined here. It's still an old 190k car at the end of the day and owes you nothing. There are no losses to cut.
If you really want a fresher e46 there are tons about. Move the steering wheel from yours over if it makes you feel better
If you really want a fresher e46 there are tons about. Move the steering wheel from yours over if it makes you feel better
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