Discussion
Hope its not too late:
Cap (Black Book) doesn't register a Sep 02 car (52 plate) but starts at 2003 03 car; With 10K miles books trade at £23200. Extras wont really add alot but mileage will amke it a bit more attractive.
So in summary I would guess book value if you're lucky (£23200) but dealerships awash with P/ex's at present due to 1 Sep. So bids might be abit lower.
BTW Glass' will probably be abit higher.
Cap (Black Book) doesn't register a Sep 02 car (52 plate) but starts at 2003 03 car; With 10K miles books trade at £23200. Extras wont really add alot but mileage will amke it a bit more attractive.
So in summary I would guess book value if you're lucky (£23200) but dealerships awash with P/ex's at present due to 1 Sep. So bids might be abit lower.
BTW Glass' will probably be abit higher.
Havent got my book here (at work) but that sounds about right - dealers are buggers - however that is actually good depreciation. Most cars sold that soon and in that market sector (price) would lose more. Dont forget the dealer will add about £2500 for his costs. and so will sell at £26995 for a year old car (albeit with good mileage) bearing in mind that a new car costs them approx. £27k to buy....
God, what a long way of saying that aint bad........
I have a 3.0i for sale that I have had no bites on at all, so not a good time for private sale anyhow, although praying for an 'Indian Summer'
God, what a long way of saying that aint bad........
I have a 3.0i for sale that I have had no bites on at all, so not a good time for private sale anyhow, although praying for an 'Indian Summer'
If you sell to a dealer then there's always a dealer margin. If you kept the car three or four years then the margin is low per annum but selling after a year...well the dealer wants to make a margin per car which is more absolute than percentage.
Losing under 20% in a year on a new car when selling into the trade is a great result. I wish my CLK and S4 had only depreciated by that amount!
Losing under 20% in a year on a new car when selling into the trade is a great result. I wish my CLK and S4 had only depreciated by that amount!
If you take the fact that out of that £30k initial cost there was £4500 VAT that goes straight to the Government... You have lost a £1000 in a year in real depreciation..
Not bad I thought. Also he's paying you "book" for the car when we are paying quite a way behind.. I'd tear his arm out of the socket if its just a cash offer from him and you're not p'xing..
Cheers,
Adam
You friendly Bugger of a Dealer...
Not bad I thought. Also he's paying you "book" for the car when we are paying quite a way behind.. I'd tear his arm out of the socket if its just a cash offer from him and you're not p'xing..
Cheers,
Adam
You friendly Bugger of a Dealer...
ScoobyZoom said:
If you take the fact that out of that £30k initial cost there was £4500 VAT that goes straight to the Government... You have lost a £1000 in a year in real depreciation..
Not bad I thought. Also he's paying you "book" for the car when we are paying quite a way behind.. I'd tear his arm out of the socket if its just a cash offer from him and you're not p'xing..
Cheers,
Adam
You friendly Bugger of a Dealer...
Hi Scoobyzoom
Is it normal that you are paying behind book on Z4's or just seasonal? I obviously appreciate that sep 1st etc...
I bought an 03 Z4 3.0 manual for £25800 at auction thinking I would make a few Bob but....fraid not still available
(wettest Aug didnt help) books at £26500 now (milage adjusted) how much behind do you see it?
Thanks
Yeah it is seasonal i'm afraid but nothing is ever worth "Book"... Except the odd car like X5 diesel's (throw book away) and RS focus's spring to mind, I just got £17500 for an "03/53" that books at £16000
In the height of summer the Z4 would probably still be £1000 behind. It now books at £26125 and is probably about £24,500 depending on colour and spec mate.
In the height of summer the Z4 would probably still be £1000 behind. It now books at £26125 and is probably about £24,500 depending on colour and spec mate.
ScoobyZoom said:
Yeah it is seasonal i'm afraid but nothing is ever worth "Book"... Except the odd car like X5 diesel's (throw book away) and RS focus's spring to mind, I just got £17500 for an "03/53" that books at £16000
In the height of summer the Z4 would probably still be £1000 behind. It now books at £26125 and is probably about £24,500 depending on colour and spec mate.
Ouch and thanks !!
ScoobyZoom said:
Yeah it is seasonal i'm afraid but nothing is ever worth "Book"... Except the odd car like X5 diesel's (throw book away) and RS focus's spring to mind, I just got £17500 for an "03/53" that books at £16000
In the height of summer the Z4 would probably still be £1000 behind. It now books at £26125 and is probably about £24,500 depending on colour and spec mate.
I've owned so many cars that have not been worth 'book' when I've sold them that I can't understand why Glasses etc don't just rebase their figures to what people actually get! Why not?
ScoobyZoom said:
because Glasses is a Guide...
you have to take stocking charges and prep costs into consideration etc etc...
Not sure that holds sway, as theoretically Glass's & Cap take their figures from actual sales prices achieved at various auction houses and dealers which have all had variances taken into account already....
Which still begs the question why dont more cars achieve 'book' as long as naturally colour, spec, prep etc are known or consistent. Ie an average should achieve book, higher spec and good condition slightly more lower less...
Sorry not wishing to contradict you Scooby, and your much greater experience (and you will note that I have ignored the 'stock' comment which will, I believe, have the greatest sway of all) but I do wonder why these figures do vary so much and mostly in a downward manner - now if I was the sceptical type I would accuse the dealers of trying to maximise margins...but happy to be convinced that this is not the case
CAP takes its prices from auctions whilst Glasses has a panel of people who also vet the figures...
The problem is that what happens to the value when you pay book for a car that isn't going to sell straight away then you keep it for 3 months, suffer 3 book drops and then have to reduce it or bail out entirely...
There really is a big picture here and no matter what I say to you, everyone will always see the dealer as a rip off merchant.. Yes we are here to make a profit we are a business.. But, people seem to really object to a motor dealer making money where as watch shops with a 300% mark up is fine... Dentists who charge me £45 for 5 minutes poking around are ok... And solicitors who charge me £500 to handle the sale of my house including £40 worth of phone calls are also acceptable...
You wouldn't believe me if I gave you the profiability figure for new and used cars sold.. Have a stab, I bet you are over £1000 a unit out...
The problem is that what happens to the value when you pay book for a car that isn't going to sell straight away then you keep it for 3 months, suffer 3 book drops and then have to reduce it or bail out entirely...
There really is a big picture here and no matter what I say to you, everyone will always see the dealer as a rip off merchant.. Yes we are here to make a profit we are a business.. But, people seem to really object to a motor dealer making money where as watch shops with a 300% mark up is fine... Dentists who charge me £45 for 5 minutes poking around are ok... And solicitors who charge me £500 to handle the sale of my house including £40 worth of phone calls are also acceptable...
You wouldn't believe me if I gave you the profiability figure for new and used cars sold.. Have a stab, I bet you are over £1000 a unit out...
ScoobyZoom said:
CAP takes its prices from auctions whilst Glasses has a panel of people who also vet the figures...
The problem is that what happens to the value when you pay book for a car that isn't going to sell straight away then you keep it for 3 months, suffer 3 book drops and then have to reduce it or bail out entirely...
There really is a big picture here and no matter what I say to you, everyone will always see the dealer as a rip off merchant.. Yes we are here to make a profit we are a business.. But, people seem to really object to a motor dealer making money where as watch shops with a 300% mark up is fine... Dentists who charge me £45 for 5 minutes poking around are ok... And solicitors who charge me £500 to handle the sale of my house including £40 worth of phone calls are also acceptable...
You wouldn't believe me if I gave you the profiability figure for new and used cars sold.. Have a stab, I bet you are over £1000 a unit out...
and Scoobs is in the 'Blue Chip' license to print money end of the market. as a % margins on cars are 
ScoobyZoom said:Christ on a jeffing bike. I must be going soft. I almost felt a tinge of sympathy for you there.
There really is a big picture here and no matter what I say to you, everyone will always see the dealer as a rip off merchant.. Yes we are here to make a profit we are a business.. But, people seem to really object to a motor dealer making money where as watch shops with a 300% mark up is fine... Dentists who charge me £45 for 5 minutes poking around are ok... And solicitors who charge me £500 to handle the sale of my house including £40 worth of phone calls are also acceptable...
'Ows it 'angin' Brummie lad?
ScoobyZoom said:
There really is a big picture here and no matter what I say to you, everyone will always see the dealer as a rip off merchant.. Yes we are here to make a profit we are a business..
You wouldn't believe me if I gave you the profiability figure for new and used cars sold.. Have a stab, I bet you are over £1000 a unit out...
I wont start guessing as I am not sure what profitability means (after what overheads have been paid? Commission, warranty - if applicable etc...) I would however not expect a dealer to buy my car at say £24,500 and make more than £1500 - £2000. My guess however is that it will be put up at £28,995. That would be some part-ex allowance.
Anyhow, as I said you are in the business and its irrelevant what we think, we either pays or we dont
What does irk, is when I was selling my 348GTS a prominent dealer in Farnham (well known to you TVR guys) insisted that he was very intersted in my Ferrari, kept me hanging for three days having promised to call back the same day and promptly offered me £18,500 !!!
I had already had a trade offer of 28K, and two of £28.5 and finally sold it privately after two weeks for £30K. Whats all that about !! My reply was short sharp and polite after telling him that he must be hard of hearing as it was a Ferrari and not an MR2 - "what do you mean my Lucks off" he replied
boshly said:
I wont start guessing as I am not sure what profitability means (after what overheads have been paid? Commission, warranty - if applicable etc...) I would however not expect a dealer to buy my car at say £24,500 and make more than £1500 - £2000. My guess however is that it will be put up at £28,995. That would be some part-ex allowance.
If we could make that type of profit you are quite right we would have to stick it up at £28995. Out of that 4500 margin you have to prep the car (about £500), this leaves you £4000 then pay the VAT out of the profit after giving some money off.. Then you would end up with a couple of grand...
Now you wouldnt even open the door at that money as I could supply you a new one for that..
So if it owes us £24500 we would price that at £26995. Take £26000 is for it and end up with between £600 and £1000 profit - and be happy.
We average £800 a car on used.
On new we are about the same...
The guy after your fezza was taking the pi55 trying to get lucky.. occaisionally you get someone so desperate to sell a car and no-one is buying anything so you take the piss.. occaisionally you win..
Try it with a BMW customer and they phone BMW, BMW then call you and see if you are taking the pi55... If you are you get a proper bo11ocking and no favours..
here endeth todays lesson on the trade
ScoobyZoom said:
here endeth todays lesson on the trade
Please bring unto me more words of wisdom oh trader
there are 3@ £27K 5@ £28K & 17@ £29K on the BM website, so your obviously right (Duh!!) but possibly the cheaper end.
It would appear that sterling grey with black leather is the worst (read cheapest) colour combo? or just coincidence? That is the combo on my car with few options but no big ones.
Will bring the price down to £26k and see what happens (on hold til sold with E&M)
I do appreciate all your input by the way, oh holy one.
Boshly
Sterling and Black is a cracking colour combo and very popular, the price you are asking is more than fair.. The price's on BMW's site dictate spec which is why you get the big variance...
I bought one today "0303" with sterling and Black, Auto, Sat Nav, Xenons, 18" Wheels, a load of little options and 3200 miles on the clock for £25750.
So you are asking a fair price IMO.
I bought one today "0303" with sterling and Black, Auto, Sat Nav, Xenons, 18" Wheels, a load of little options and 3200 miles on the clock for £25750.
So you are asking a fair price IMO.
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