E46 Boot Floor Cracks
Discussion
Guys,
I had a good poke around under mine (2002 330i Sport) last night, and can't find any cracks. There are patches of surface rust around where the rubbers fit to the body, but no lines that I can see. Presumably if there are cracks, they're pretty obvious?
Having read a statement from BMW on another forum, they mention filling with foam, presumably to stiffen the cavity above where the mounts are - is this a good preventative measure to stop the cracks starting?
Are there any other preventative measures that can be taken to stop the cracking problem (or at least reduce the risk)?
Does anyone have a link to the current statistics (year, type, mileage) for cars that had a problem? I can't find the right poll thread on the E46Fanatics forum.
Cheers.
I had a good poke around under mine (2002 330i Sport) last night, and can't find any cracks. There are patches of surface rust around where the rubbers fit to the body, but no lines that I can see. Presumably if there are cracks, they're pretty obvious?
Having read a statement from BMW on another forum, they mention filling with foam, presumably to stiffen the cavity above where the mounts are - is this a good preventative measure to stop the cracks starting?
Are there any other preventative measures that can be taken to stop the cracking problem (or at least reduce the risk)?
Does anyone have a link to the current statistics (year, type, mileage) for cars that had a problem? I can't find the right poll thread on the E46Fanatics forum.
Cheers.
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
According to most other sources, it absolutely doesn't only apply to M3's etc., nor does it apply only to cars up to 2000 when BMW supposedly introduced a mod to the boot floor.I admit I'm a bit paranoid, but can't see why asking about how you could - possibly - prevent an expensive repair is unreasonable, especially if preventative maintenance on the cooling system is 'fair enough'.
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
According to most other sources, it absolutely doesn't only apply to M3's etc., nor does it apply only to cars up to 2000 when BMW supposedly introduced a mod to the boot floor.I admit I'm a bit paranoid, but can't see why asking about how you could - possibly - prevent an expensive repair is unreasonable, especially if preventative maintenance on the cooling system is 'fair enough'.
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
According to most other sources, it absolutely doesn't only apply to M3's etc., nor does it apply only to cars up to 2000 when BMW supposedly introduced a mod to the boot floor.I admit I'm a bit paranoid, but can't see why asking about how you could - possibly - prevent an expensive repair is unreasonable, especially if preventative maintenance on the cooling system is 'fair enough'.
I'm sure there are thousands of cars without cracks, thousands with cracks, and thousands more that will never be checked.
Yes, it's a ten year old car worth about £3k, but it's my first BMW, and it's nice to be fore warned and fore armed as to what could happen.
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
According to most other sources, it absolutely doesn't only apply to M3's etc., nor does it apply only to cars up to 2000 when BMW supposedly introduced a mod to the boot floor.I admit I'm a bit paranoid, but can't see why asking about how you could - possibly - prevent an expensive repair is unreasonable, especially if preventative maintenance on the cooling system is 'fair enough'.
I'm sure there are thousands of cars without cracks, thousands with cracks, and thousands more that will never be checked.
Yes, it's a ten year old car worth about £3k, but it's my first BMW, and it's nice to be fore warned and fore armed as to what could happen.
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
Wrong it affects all E46's Blair357ci said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
Wrong it affects all E46's St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
According to most other sources, it absolutely doesn't only apply to M3's etc., nor does it apply only to cars up to 2000 when BMW supposedly introduced a mod to the boot floor.I admit I'm a bit paranoid, but can't see why asking about how you could - possibly - prevent an expensive repair is unreasonable, especially if preventative maintenance on the cooling system is 'fair enough'.
I'm sure there are thousands of cars without cracks, thousands with cracks, and thousands more that will never be checked.
Yes, it's a ten year old car worth about £3k, but it's my first BMW, and it's nice to be fore warned and fore armed as to what could happen.
It's not a 'possible' problem, it's a known design fault with the E46. When they crack depends, among other things, on the spec. of the car, how old it is, how it's been driven, over what quality of road surface and over how many miles. Mine doesn't have any cracks yet (at least not visible ones), but, assuming it continues to accumulate miles, eventually it will, whether in my ownership or not.
All I'm asking is, is there any preventative measures to delay or prevent the cracks appearing or propagating? I was intrigued by BMW's foam cavity filling fix. At the end of the day if it turns out to be a good car, and it does crack, it'll get repaired. I'm well aware that the cracks won't appear overnight to the degree that the subframe falls out.
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
According to most other sources, it absolutely doesn't only apply to M3's etc., nor does it apply only to cars up to 2000 when BMW supposedly introduced a mod to the boot floor.I admit I'm a bit paranoid, but can't see why asking about how you could - possibly - prevent an expensive repair is unreasonable, especially if preventative maintenance on the cooling system is 'fair enough'.
I'm sure there are thousands of cars without cracks, thousands with cracks, and thousands more that will never be checked.
Yes, it's a ten year old car worth about £3k, but it's my first BMW, and it's nice to be fore warned and fore armed as to what could happen.
It's not a 'possible' problem, it's a known design fault with the E46. When they crack depends, among other things, on the spec. of the car, how old it is, how it's been driven, over what quality of road surface and over how many miles. Mine doesn't have any cracks yet (at least not visible ones), but, assuming it continues to accumulate miles, eventually it will, whether in my ownership or not.
All I'm asking is, is there any preventative measures to delay or prevent the cracks appearing or propagating? I was intrigued by BMW's foam cavity filling fix. At the end of the day if it turns out to be a good car, and it does crack, it'll get repaired. I'm well aware that the cracks won't appear overnight to the degree that the subframe falls out.
St John Smythe said:
Blair357ci said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
Wrong it affects all E46's According to these 2008 figures from an E46Fanatics poll, M3's hardly register. OK, maybe less M3 owners submitted their votes, but, in general, it's the early versions of the car that were affected irrespective of type. Of course, as the years pass, more of the newer types are showing problems. This is the reason I asked for current statistics: to make a more informed judgement of the problem.
By Model
323i 24
323ci 52
323iT 1
325i 1
325ci 3
328i 47
328ci 64
330i 1
330ci 4
320D 1
m3 5
By Year
NA 10
1999 46
2000 134
2001 6
2002 6
2003 1
2004 1
Total 206
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
Blair357ci said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
Wrong it affects all E46's According to these 2008 figures from an E46Fanatics poll, M3's hardly register. OK, maybe less M3 owners submitted their votes, but, in general, it's the early versions of the car that were affected irrespective of type. Of course, as the years pass, more of the newer types are showing problems. This is the reason I asked for current statistics: to make a more informed judgement of the problem.
By Model
323i 24
323ci 52
323iT 1
325i 1
325ci 3
328i 47
328ci 64
330i 1
330ci 4
320D 1
m3 5
By Year
NA 10
1999 46
2000 134
2001 6
2002 6
2003 1
2004 1
Total 206
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
According to most other sources, it absolutely doesn't only apply to M3's etc., nor does it apply only to cars up to 2000 when BMW supposedly introduced a mod to the boot floor.I admit I'm a bit paranoid, but can't see why asking about how you could - possibly - prevent an expensive repair is unreasonable, especially if preventative maintenance on the cooling system is 'fair enough'.
I'm sure there are thousands of cars without cracks, thousands with cracks, and thousands more that will never be checked.
Yes, it's a ten year old car worth about £3k, but it's my first BMW, and it's nice to be fore warned and fore armed as to what could happen.
It's not a 'possible' problem, it's a known design fault with the E46. When they crack depends, among other things, on the spec. of the car, how old it is, how it's been driven, over what quality of road surface and over how many miles. Mine doesn't have any cracks yet (at least not visible ones), but, assuming it continues to accumulate miles, eventually it will, whether in my ownership or not.
All I'm asking is, is there any preventative measures to delay or prevent the cracks appearing or propagating? I was intrigued by BMW's foam cavity filling fix. At the end of the day if it turns out to be a good car, and it does crack, it'll get repaired. I'm well aware that the cracks won't appear overnight to the degree that the subframe falls out.
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
According to most other sources, it absolutely doesn't only apply to M3's etc., nor does it apply only to cars up to 2000 when BMW supposedly introduced a mod to the boot floor.I admit I'm a bit paranoid, but can't see why asking about how you could - possibly - prevent an expensive repair is unreasonable, especially if preventative maintenance on the cooling system is 'fair enough'.
I'm sure there are thousands of cars without cracks, thousands with cracks, and thousands more that will never be checked.
Yes, it's a ten year old car worth about £3k, but it's my first BMW, and it's nice to be fore warned and fore armed as to what could happen.
It's not a 'possible' problem, it's a known design fault with the E46. When they crack depends, among other things, on the spec. of the car, how old it is, how it's been driven, over what quality of road surface and over how many miles. Mine doesn't have any cracks yet (at least not visible ones), but, assuming it continues to accumulate miles, eventually it will, whether in my ownership or not.
All I'm asking is, is there any preventative measures to delay or prevent the cracks appearing or propagating? I was intrigued by BMW's foam cavity filling fix. At the end of the day if it turns out to be a good car, and it does crack, it'll get repaired. I'm well aware that the cracks won't appear overnight to the degree that the subframe falls out.
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
Blair357ci said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
Wrong it affects all E46's According to these 2008 figures from an E46Fanatics poll, M3's hardly register. OK, maybe less M3 owners submitted their votes, but, in general, it's the early versions of the car that were affected irrespective of type. Of course, as the years pass, more of the newer types are showing problems. This is the reason I asked for current statistics: to make a more informed judgement of the problem.
By Model
323i 24
323ci 52
323iT 1
325i 1
325ci 3
328i 47
328ci 64
330i 1
330ci 4
320D 1
m3 5
By Year
NA 10
1999 46
2000 134
2001 6
2002 6
2003 1
2004 1
Total 206
Of all the E46 owners in the world, how many people actually go and check and subscribe to a forum poll?
The point is that the distribution of the 206 cars in the poll indicates that it is by no means limited to M3's (as you said it was earlier).
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
Blair357ci said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
Wrong it affects all E46's According to these 2008 figures from an E46Fanatics poll, M3's hardly register. OK, maybe less M3 owners submitted their votes, but, in general, it's the early versions of the car that were affected irrespective of type. Of course, as the years pass, more of the newer types are showing problems. This is the reason I asked for current statistics: to make a more informed judgement of the problem.
By Model
323i 24
323ci 52
323iT 1
325i 1
325ci 3
328i 47
328ci 64
330i 1
330ci 4
320D 1
m3 5
By Year
NA 10
1999 46
2000 134
2001 6
2002 6
2003 1
2004 1
Total 206
Of all the E46 owners in the world, how many people actually go and check and subscribe to a forum poll?
The point is that the distribution of the 206 cars in the poll indicates that it is by no means limited to M3's (as you said it was earlier).
Judging by your posts you are obviously concerned about the condition of your car. A specialist will provide you with a workshop report detailing anything that needs doing and may need doing in the future plus peace of mind. It's what I've done with my Alpina and I've nearly got it tip top Plus a specialist will be able to advise you on any questions you have. On forums you'll end up with different opinions going round in circles. That's my advice anyway and I've owned a fair few cars. Take it or leave it
St John Smythe said:
I didn't say it didn't. What I did say is it is far more likely to affect M3s. So not wrong at all.
The impression you gave with your response was that it was basically M3's and Alpina's that suffer this problem so owners of other models shouldn't really worry about it. The problem is, there are plenty of 328i owners who would disagree with you instantly (these cars have a well documented reputation for this issue).As for you and your mates not having encountered this issue: so what?, neither Myself or anyone I know has ever been stabbed in a mugging - doesn't mean it never happens though!
And just how many cars are you covering with this statement compared to how many E46's BMW made?: 5?; 10?; 100?
Considering BMW made between 300,000 to 500,000 3series a year (see here: http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=... ), I suspect the overall percentage of production that you and your mates cars represent is negligible to say the least.
As for sub frame mounts and diff mounts cracking, this has plagued the BMW 3series since the days of the E30 back in the 80's (been there - done that with an '89 325i Sport!).
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
dr_gn said:
St John Smythe said:
Blair357ci said:
St John Smythe said:
Seriously, I saw your other thread on preventive maintenance which is fair enough but I wouldn't worry about cracks in your boot floor (especially because you've checked and can't see any!). This only really affected M3s and higher powered e46s (Alpinas, etc). Just enjoy the car and stop trying to find something wrong with it!
Wrong it affects all E46's According to these 2008 figures from an E46Fanatics poll, M3's hardly register. OK, maybe less M3 owners submitted their votes, but, in general, it's the early versions of the car that were affected irrespective of type. Of course, as the years pass, more of the newer types are showing problems. This is the reason I asked for current statistics: to make a more informed judgement of the problem.
By Model
323i 24
323ci 52
323iT 1
325i 1
325ci 3
328i 47
328ci 64
330i 1
330ci 4
320D 1
m3 5
By Year
NA 10
1999 46
2000 134
2001 6
2002 6
2003 1
2004 1
Total 206
Of all the E46 owners in the world, how many people actually go and check and subscribe to a forum poll?
The point is that the distribution of the 206 cars in the poll indicates that it is by no means limited to M3's (as you said it was earlier).
Judging by your posts you are obviously concerned about the condition of your car. A specialist will provide you with a workshop report detailing anything that needs doing and may need doing in the future plus peace of mind. It's what I've done with my Alpina and I've nearly got it tip top Plus a specialist will be able to advise you on any questions you have. On forums you'll end up with different opinions going round in circles. That's my advice anyway and I've owned a fair few cars. Take it or leave it
I'd bet a significant amount of money that if you put 100 E46's on test rigs, loaded them to simulate various driving conditions, eventually they'd ALL develop cracks whether it be at the equivalent of 60k miles, 100k miles of 500k miles. It's a design fault. Fatigue will always win in the end unless you drive like a nun all the time.
I'd describe my car (touch wood) as almost unbelievably good, I don't need to take it to a specialist (yet!), all I'm asking is...well, read my first post.
I obtained this from the March edition of Total BMW magazine
http://www.redish-motorsport.com/E46M3FloorSubfram...
You might want to take a deep breath before you see the price, especially as you don't have any cracks as yet. They do say that changing the standard subframe bushes for polybushes can help, as the different shape of the polybush puts less stress through the floor.
Not worth worrying about though unless there are cracks appearing.
http://www.redish-motorsport.com/E46M3FloorSubfram...
You might want to take a deep breath before you see the price, especially as you don't have any cracks as yet. They do say that changing the standard subframe bushes for polybushes can help, as the different shape of the polybush puts less stress through the floor.
Not worth worrying about though unless there are cracks appearing.
4rephill said:
St John Smythe said:
I didn't say it didn't. What I did say is it is far more likely to affect M3s. So not wrong at all.
The impression you gave with your response was that it was basically M3's and Alpina's that suffer this problem so owners of other models shouldn't really worry about it. The problem is, there are plenty of 328i owners who would disagree with you instantly (these cars have a well documented reputation for this issue).As for you and your mates not having encountered this issue: so what?, neither Myself or anyone I know has ever been stabbed in a mugging - doesn't mean it never happens though!
And just how many cars are you covering with this statement compared to how many E46's BMW made?: 5?; 10?; 100?
Considering BMW made between 300,000 to 500,000 3series a year (see here: http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=... ), I suspect the overall percentage of production that you and your mates cars represent is negligible to say the least.
As for sub frame mounts and diff mounts cracking, this has plagued the BMW 3series since the days of the E30 back in the 80's (been there - done that with an '89 325i Sport!).
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