Discussion
Aluminati said:
Just worked out I’ve done over half a million miles on these engines, 330d/335d/4.0d.
Only failure, a crankshaft pulley on the 335d. Common denominator, oil and filter change every 10k with Mobil 1 and BMW filter.
Ditching the long life servicing is the key isn’t it. Did you ever get the zf8 gearbox oil changed on yours? Only failure, a crankshaft pulley on the 335d. Common denominator, oil and filter change every 10k with Mobil 1 and BMW filter.
S8QUATTRO said:
Not sure what year they stopped using the m57 but it’s a solid engine
Around 2008/2010 depending on the car.F10's always had the N57 as did the 2008 F01 7 Series and whilst the E90 330d went to the N57 with the LCI (early 2008?) the 325d kept the old engine until 2010.
It started off with an iron block in 1998 and went to an alloy block around 2004/5 with the M57N and N2 in the E60, E90 etc.
E46 and E39 iron block engines had a timing chain that drove both cams. Later ones had the chain driving one cam that had a gear to contra rotate the other. The later unit went into the last E46's iirc.
I-am-the-reverend said:
What a shame. Remember when the old E39 530d's just did 200,000 miles with an annual oil change?
No, I don't. I took an E39 to 200,000 miles and not a year went by without fixing more things that had broken on it. A fantastic car but my most reliable BMW was an F10 not an E39.
I-am-the-reverend said:
What a shame. Remember when the old E39 530d's just did 200,000 miles with an annual oil change?
What happened to BMW?
Really? What happened to BMW?
Everyone I know that had the 530D had constant issues, more so the higher miles they had (turbo issues, leaks, injector issues etc). Expensive to fix as well...
The M54 petrols seemed to be a lot less problematic bar the usually gaskets turning to plastic, but they're easily replaced. A much cheaper engine to maintain too
The only N57 I had was my F01 730D and it felt a peach of en engine; but it'd only done 85k miles!
Baddie said:
Spoke to a local specialist. He said they see chains going at 60k, depending on maintenance/usage, and recommended replacing at 100k (£3 k engine out job). To do the main bearings as well is more like £4.5k. Then service twice as often as BMW advise.
Engine out to do the mains, but people have done a chain job on axle stands. Look up 'Nut Job' on YouTube. He bought an ex-police 530d. Silly boy!Baddie said:
The twin-turbo is worse. This may be because one of the main bearings appears to be fed from the turbo oil-return, so hotter/thinner oil.
That can't be right. Mains are always the priority in any oil circuit. There is no way BMW would route low pressure oil from a turbo drain to a main bearing as that is a dumb idea. That isn't a dig at you, rather you have been fed some bad info.The triple turbo engines are the most problematic, in spite of having the strongest crank and internals. Twins are OK if looked after. Single turbo is the least stressed of all 3 and is the one to get if longevity is a concern. The real world performance difference between 30 and 35d is not that great, and imo the latter's mpg penalty isn't worth it. 35d is only quicker at motorway speeds. Bear in mind BMW had 3 turbos in mind when designing the N57, so core strength is not an issue. What BMW cannot account for is dumb arse owners unfortunately.
Baddie said:
Agree none of the alternatives are better. The “Police BMW Engine Issues” thread is illuminating, both for how hard the cars are used and for how alternatives are mostly even worse.
There is an argument BMW 'should' have made the engine suitable for patrol car use, but it does come down to use case. European police didn't seem to have any issues. No one really knows what condition the engine was in in the case of the tragic death of the UK officer, but the main causes of engine fires were EGR cooler failure predominantly, and valve covers warping and leaking oil onto the turbo less so. The test facility in Austria where BMW sent 8 N57s to for analysis concluded 5W40 oil should have been specified for heavy duty use, not the crappy 0W30 standard issue stuff. Simple visual checks by owners can mitigate some of these issues - but 95% of people wait for something to break before ever lifting the bonnet. As owners of vehicles used on public roads, the responsibility is on us to make sure they are fit for purpose and maintained properly. It's no use blaming car makers for apathy towards maintenance.
So in summary, ignore the internet tales of woe. If you fancy a 35d, then get one. No car comes with a guaranteed life span does it? The N57 is a far better engine than the M57 in all the key areas for many boring reasons that would make this a very long post, so I really wouldn't worry about it.
Thank you, great post.
The N57 is a far better engine than the M57 in all the key areas for many boring reasons that would make this a very long post, so I really wouldn't worry about it.I’d be interested in those reasons.
Got burnt with a poorly-maintained M5 many years ago, swallowed my borkage life-allowance to lasting effect.
Owners seem to stay ever further away from their cars’ dirty bits, which are more unfathomable anyway - can’t find dipsticks and radiator caps now; knowledgable inspections are needed more frequently than current service intervals.
I’d love to know how continental forces use their cars differently from ours, doubt I could ever find out; some of our cars soak up incredible abuse by accounts in the “Police BMW Engine Issues” thread.
That thread also has a link on page 27 to PC Dumphries inquest. Brief summary is from 2014 police engines had 5 - 7 crank bearing failures a month. The 4th bearing in PC Dumphries car was worn and spun cutting off the oil way, which cut off supply to the 3rd bearing also, which then failed causing the con-rod to puncture the sump; some of the spilt oil caught fire and some went on the road and tyres causing the car to veer out of control. BMW UK escalated this to BMW AG who advocated more frequent oil changes and a higher grade.
Not much he could have done about it poor bloke. Don’t know the car’s history and condition.
rottenegg said:
The N57 is a far better engine than the M57 in all the key areas for many boring reasons that would make this a very long post, so I really wouldn't worry about it.
Got burnt with a poorly-maintained M5 many years ago, swallowed my borkage life-allowance to lasting effect.
Owners seem to stay ever further away from their cars’ dirty bits, which are more unfathomable anyway - can’t find dipsticks and radiator caps now; knowledgable inspections are needed more frequently than current service intervals.
I’d love to know how continental forces use their cars differently from ours, doubt I could ever find out; some of our cars soak up incredible abuse by accounts in the “Police BMW Engine Issues” thread.
That thread also has a link on page 27 to PC Dumphries inquest. Brief summary is from 2014 police engines had 5 - 7 crank bearing failures a month. The 4th bearing in PC Dumphries car was worn and spun cutting off the oil way, which cut off supply to the 3rd bearing also, which then failed causing the con-rod to puncture the sump; some of the spilt oil caught fire and some went on the road and tyres causing the car to veer out of control. BMW UK escalated this to BMW AG who advocated more frequent oil changes and a higher grade.
Not much he could have done about it poor bloke. Don’t know the car’s history and condition.
Edited by Baddie on Saturday 1st June 11:41
Baddie said:
Thank you, great post.
The N57 is a far better engine than the M57 in all the key areas for many boring reasons that would make this a very long post, so I really wouldn't worry about it.I’d be interested in those reasons.
Got burnt with a poorly-maintained M5 many years ago, swallowed my borkage life-allowance to lasting effect.
Owners seem to stay ever further away from their cars’ dirty bits, which are more unfathomable anyway - can’t find dipsticks and radiator caps now; knowledgable inspections are needed more frequently than current service intervals.
I’d love to know how continental forces use their cars differently from ours, doubt I could ever find out; some of our cars soak up incredible abuse by accounts in the “Police BMW Engine Issues” thread.
That thread also has a link on page 27 to PC Dumphries inquest. Brief summary is from 2014 police engines had 5 - 7 crank bearing failures a month. The 4th bearing in PC Dumphries car was worn and spun cutting off the oil way, which cut off supply to the 3rd bearing also, which then failed causing the con-rod to puncture the sump; some of the spilt oil caught fire and some went on the road and tyres causing the car to veer out of control. BMW UK escalated this to BMW AG who advocated more frequent oil changes and a higher grade.
Not much he could have done about it poor bloke. Don’t know the car’s history and condition.
I feel your pain. I think we've all been victim to that. That is unfortunately why BMWs have earned a reputation for being oil leaky, unreliable, expensive money pits, and it is 100% down to poor maintenance. rottenegg said:
The N57 is a far better engine than the M57 in all the key areas for many boring reasons that would make this a very long post, so I really wouldn't worry about it.
Got burnt with a poorly-maintained M5 many years ago, swallowed my borkage life-allowance to lasting effect.
Owners seem to stay ever further away from their cars’ dirty bits, which are more unfathomable anyway - can’t find dipsticks and radiator caps now; knowledgable inspections are needed more frequently than current service intervals.
I’d love to know how continental forces use their cars differently from ours, doubt I could ever find out; some of our cars soak up incredible abuse by accounts in the “Police BMW Engine Issues” thread.
That thread also has a link on page 27 to PC Dumphries inquest. Brief summary is from 2014 police engines had 5 - 7 crank bearing failures a month. The 4th bearing in PC Dumphries car was worn and spun cutting off the oil way, which cut off supply to the 3rd bearing also, which then failed causing the con-rod to puncture the sump; some of the spilt oil caught fire and some went on the road and tyres causing the car to veer out of control. BMW UK escalated this to BMW AG who advocated more frequent oil changes and a higher grade.
Not much he could have done about it poor bloke. Don’t know the car’s history and condition.
German cars are engineered to a certain standard which is intolerant of shoddy workmanship and or neglect. As with any fine tolerance machine, it needs looking after.
I live on a large typical 80s housing estate and literally NO ONE ever lifts their bonnet, or even cleans their cars. I am the only one out there every weekend doing my weekly checks
Admittedly, cars are my main hobby and most folk treat cars as nothing more than transport, so have zero interest in them. At the end of the day, if I look after it, it will look after me 
No one wants to be left stranded on the side of the road on the way to work.I'm not sure tbh. Maybe they left start/stop enabled or just switched them off when attending incidents? Clearly the UK police disabled it because of the reported way they use theirs, i.e. leave it idling for ages whilst dealing with an incident, and then nailing it off to another call out?
It's worth noting that particular issue doesn't effect civilian cars. The only public ones that were affected were caused by the EGR cooler rupturing, which BMW launched a recall campaign for, and it wasn't many in the grand scheme of things. All N57s will have, or SHOULD have had the recall done by now.
Yeah that was a really nasty incident, very sad. Yeah, that is exactly what happens when main bearings spin unfortunately. Worth noting it happened on the N55 petrol turbo engine as well, not just the N57. That is why most aluminium blocks are scrap afterwards (not just BMW) as they warp from the heat, which throws out the main bearing clearance tolerances. If caught early enough, you can get away with new bearings and a crank. The upper bearings are sputter on the N57, which is a harder material than the crank, so unfortunately the crank always gets written off. Softer bearings wouldn't last long with the diesel cylinder pressures, so it's catch 22.
As for the improvements over M57. For one thing, the N57 is a lot easier to work on. The air filter is a pain in the neck to change on the M57, and takes 2 minutes on the N57. N57 has no over head wiring harnesses getting in the way etc, so it's easier to work on and around.
N57 has a much better cylinder head and intake. The M57 had a weird intake and head port system. N57s flows a lot better and is simpler for maintenance.
N57 moved the chain gear to the back of the engine to eliminate crank whip on the chains and also keep the rotating mass next to the heavy torque converter to reduce harmonics.
N57 is also lighter, cleaner, more powerful, quieter and smoother thanks to better injectors and fuel management. 2015 on N57s are also ULEZ compliant. No M57 is.
N57s also have better turbos, better boost control, better EGR systems (aside from the EGR cooler failures), better DPFs better everything!
N57 also has the ZF 8HP gearbox, which is MILES better than the 6HP.
The only thing two things the M57 has in it's favour is the iron block, which has a better chance of being salvaged in the event of bearing failure, and a manual gearbox option. Worth also noting the later M57 was also an aluminium block, so it's not just the N and B 57s that can fail.
Don't get me wrong, M and N 57 are both superb diesel engines, but the N57 is better, and the B57 is better still
Oh and the N57 doesn't eat swirl flaps like the M57 did either.
Edited by rottenegg on Saturday 1st June 12:31
rottenegg said:
I feel your pain. I think we've all been victim to that. That is unfortunately why BMWs have earned a reputation for being oil leaky, unreliable, expensive money pits, and it is 100% down to poor maintenance.
German cars are engineered to a certain standard which is intolerant of shoddy workmanship and or neglect. As with any fine tolerance machine, it needs looking after.
Yes, I’ve been told, and don’t know how true it is, Japanese cars are engineered to be more tolerant of abuse / neglect / poor maintenance, and tend to perform at a lower level but with a bigger margin of reliability. German cars are engineered to a certain standard which is intolerant of shoddy workmanship and or neglect. As with any fine tolerance machine, it needs looking after.
rottenegg said:
I'm not sure tbh. Maybe they left start/stop enabled or just switched them off when attending incidents? Clearly the UK police disabled it because of the reported way they use theirs, i.e. leave it idling for ages whilst dealing with an incident, and then nailing it off to another call out?
Yes, long idling time, either in-car or at incidents is a feature. They have something called ‘run-stop’ or similar, where the car can be left locked with the engine running at an incident. The thread discusses single figure MPG over a shift in things like Volvo T5’s, ST220’s, Vauxhalls and emptying a tank in a little over 100 miles, which shows how hard they’re used. Idling followed by hard dashes over 100 mph. rottenegg said:
It's worth noting that particular issue doesn't effect civilian cars. The only public ones that were affected were caused by the EGR cooler rupturing, which BMW launched a recall campaign for, and it wasn't many in the grand scheme of things. All N57s will have, or SHOULD have had the recall done by now.
I’ve been told civilian cars are affected by the bearing issue too. Wouldn’t be surprised if this was a servicing / use issue, revved from cold, long intervals etc. I don’t know how many drivers appreciate the need to have oil up to temp on an engine with close tolerances.
rottenegg said:
Yeah that was a really nasty incident, very sad. Yeah, that is exactly what happens when main bearings spin unfortunately. Worth noting it happened on the N55 petrol turbo engine as well, not just the N57. That is why most aluminium blocks are scrap afterwards (not just BMW) as they warp from the heat, which throws out the main bearing clearance tolerances. If caught early enough, you can get away with new bearings and a crank. The upper bearings are sputter on the N57, which is a harder material than the crank, so unfortunately the crank always gets written off. Softer bearings wouldn't last long with the diesel cylinder pressures, so it's catch 22.
Interesting about the bearings and other improvements. I thought the iron versions of the M57 were pretty solid, aside from swirl flaps, but the don’t remember them all as trouble-free. rottenegg said:
I feel your pain. I think we've all been victim to that. That is unfortunately why BMWs have earned a reputation for being oil leaky, unreliable, expensive money pits, and it is 100% down to poor maintenance.
German cars are engineered to a certain standard which is intolerant of shoddy workmanship and or neglect. As with any fine tolerance machine, it needs looking after.
I live on a large typical 80s housing estate and literally NO ONE ever lifts their bonnet, or even cleans their cars.
OK.German cars are engineered to a certain standard which is intolerant of shoddy workmanship and or neglect. As with any fine tolerance machine, it needs looking after.
I live on a large typical 80s housing estate and literally NO ONE ever lifts their bonnet, or even cleans their cars.
If that's the case, why do the better Japanese cars not have a reputation for pissing oil out and breaking timing chains? By better I allude to Toyota and Lexus, down to the cheapest Yaris.
rottenegg said:
There is an argument BMW 'should' have made the engine suitable for patrol car use, but it does come down to use case. European police didn't seem to have any issues. No one really knows what condition the engine was in in the case of the tragic death of the UK officer, but the main causes of engine fires were EGR cooler failure predominantly, and valve covers warping and leaking oil onto the turbo less so. The test facility in Austria where BMW sent 8 N57s to for analysis concluded 5W40 oil should have been specified for heavy duty use, not the crappy 0W30 standard issue stuff.
The BiB used to beat the living s
t out of the five cylinder Volvo 850's. And 24v Vauxhall Senators. And everything else. Most coppers I know say the T5 Volvo was a magnificent beast and just about unbreakable. There was no Police version of the turbo straight five, just the same as everyone else got. They were just a very strong engine (and car).Baddie said:
Have now spoken to two independent BMW specialists who advised not to buy a car with the N57. One commented on the general decline in car engine quality, and described the N57 as “made of chocolate”.
The opinion of the independent I spoke with yesterday on collecting my 530d was that they seem to have few problems and are generally pretty robust.ucb said:
The opinion of the independent I spoke with yesterday on collecting my 530d was that they seem to have few problems and are generally pretty robust.
I thought that too. In context though Presitge talked about service intervals and revving from cold. Said they rebuild one N57 a week, not that many out of the number running around. Edited by Baddie on Thursday 13th June 06:05
The Conflated Outlier said:
rottenegg said:
I feel your pain. I think we've all been victim to that. That is unfortunately why BMWs have earned a reputation for being oil leaky, unreliable, expensive money pits, and it is 100% down to poor maintenance.
German cars are engineered to a certain standard which is intolerant of shoddy workmanship and or neglect. As with any fine tolerance machine, it needs looking after.
I live on a large typical 80s housing estate and literally NO ONE ever lifts their bonnet, or even cleans their cars.
OK.German cars are engineered to a certain standard which is intolerant of shoddy workmanship and or neglect. As with any fine tolerance machine, it needs looking after.
I live on a large typical 80s housing estate and literally NO ONE ever lifts their bonnet, or even cleans their cars.
If that's the case, why do the better Japanese cars not have a reputation for pissing oil out and breaking timing chains? By better I allude to Toyota and Lexus, down to the cheapest Yaris.
My Mum's 1994 Corolla blew up at 38,000 miles, and that leaked oil.
It does make me laugh how BMW owners moan about how unreliable they are. Simple answer - don't buy a BMW.
My 2016 330d isn't leaking oil. Dry as a bone. Chains were checked recently and they are well within spec still. If people actually look after their cars, they seldom go wrong.
rottenegg said:
They do if you actually do some research and not just trot out the same old tropes about Toyotas being infallible. For instance, I watched a YouTube video last night actually where a current Lexus 2.0T failed at 46K miles, and I mean completely failed, engine scrapped as it can't be rebuilt.
My Mum's 1994 Corolla blew up at 38,000 miles, and that leaked oil.
It does make me laugh how BMW owners moan about how unreliable they are. Simple answer - don't buy a BMW.
My 2016 330d isn't leaking oil. Dry as a bone. Chains were checked recently and they are well within spec still. If people actually look after their cars, they seldom go wrong.
That's two.My Mum's 1994 Corolla blew up at 38,000 miles, and that leaked oil.
It does make me laugh how BMW owners moan about how unreliable they are. Simple answer - don't buy a BMW.
My 2016 330d isn't leaking oil. Dry as a bone. Chains were checked recently and they are well within spec still. If people actually look after their cars, they seldom go wrong.
What about the thousands of others?
BTW: Nothing is infallible.
I think like everyone else has said, I wouldn’t buy one unless it was low mileage and had a BMW warranty or had been over serviced. Then over service it, and warm it up and cool it down. And code stop start to stay off when you switch it off.
Halving the service interval is a good idea on just about any CBS BMW, but if you’re not an enthusiast, why would you do that? I’m sure there’s people out there that service their boiler twice a year or have their fridge re-gassed in the regular. But most don’t see the benefit and shouldn’t have to think about it.
M57s are fine but get the diesel foibles at mileage. My E39 with 230k on it was fine, but had lost some performance.
BMW dropped the ball with the N series of diesel engines. Spun bearings, HPFP failure, chain failure aren’t something you want to think about when buying a ‘prestige’ car. My 330i has gone 213k while averaging an oil change every 12k. My 530d went to 230k with an annual oil change and my dad’s X5 3.0i has done 275k with never more than the bare minimum of servicing and repairs needed.
Halving the service interval is a good idea on just about any CBS BMW, but if you’re not an enthusiast, why would you do that? I’m sure there’s people out there that service their boiler twice a year or have their fridge re-gassed in the regular. But most don’t see the benefit and shouldn’t have to think about it.
M57s are fine but get the diesel foibles at mileage. My E39 with 230k on it was fine, but had lost some performance.
BMW dropped the ball with the N series of diesel engines. Spun bearings, HPFP failure, chain failure aren’t something you want to think about when buying a ‘prestige’ car. My 330i has gone 213k while averaging an oil change every 12k. My 530d went to 230k with an annual oil change and my dad’s X5 3.0i has done 275k with never more than the bare minimum of servicing and repairs needed.
Found this on Bimmerpost. Shows the care the engineers put into things like the forged crank, their pride comes through. But with such demanding performance/efficiency requirements and complex boost/fuelling/emissions controls with so many sensors everywhere, and sometimes 2 EGR systems, I now amazed it’s as reliable as it is.
Think stop-start may have a lot to do with bottom end failures.
https://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?a...
Think stop-start may have a lot to do with bottom end failures.
https://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?a...
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