E36 BMW becoming a classic?

[iSore]

161BMW said:

What was the E21 323i like ?

Dodgy. I had two. :roll eyes:

Quite fast but the 2.3 was quite a harsh engine. Traction in the wet was abysmal, very tail happy to point of being tiresome, very, very iffy in the wet. My second one had an LSD and Bilsteins so it was better but the E30 325i was a vastly superior car in every respect.

Not one of BMW's better cars - even though it was slower, I thought the carbed 320 was a nicer car.

[blade7]

raceboy said:

Have a bit of a soft spot for them, and not a fan of seeing so many deteriorate into the 'drift' world although this must be good for prices of good, sound, standard cars, really only see stock M3's and 328i Sports, and maybe 318iS's becoming 'collectable'.

My 328 Coupe wasn't a Sport, it had the wheels and bodykit though. Other than the headlining and front seats there didn't seem much justification for the Sport being nearly twice the money 8 or 9 years ago. As for the 318iS it reminded me of the E30 version, gutless.

[RobM77]

blade7 said:

raceboy said:

Have a bit of a soft spot for them, and not a fan of seeing so many deteriorate into the 'drift' world although this must be good for prices of good, sound, standard cars, really only see stock M3's and 328i Sports, and maybe 318iS's becoming 'collectable'.

My 328 Coupe wasn't a Sport, it had the wheels and bodykit though. Other than the headlining and front seats there didn't seem much justification for the Sport being nearly twice the money 8 or 9 years ago. As for the 318iS it reminded me of the E30 version, gutless.

The suspension was quite different on the Sport.

[Gad-Westy]

blade7 said:

My 328 Coupe wasn't a Sport, it had the wheels and bodykit though. Other than the headlining and front seats there didn't seem much justification for the Sport being nearly twice the money 8 or 9 years ago. As for the 318iS it reminded me of the E30 version, gutless.

Yeah, the Sport isn't quite as exciting a prospect as their reputation suggests. They're basically cosmetic only changes over base 328. Maybe LSD was only an option on Sport models but hardly any have it anyway. Has to be said though, they are very good cosmetic changes. The wheels especially.

[RobM77]

Gad-Westy said:

blade7 said:

My 328 Coupe wasn't a Sport, it had the wheels and bodykit though. Other than the headlining and front seats there didn't seem much justification for the Sport being nearly twice the money 8 or 9 years ago. As for the 318iS it reminded me of the E30 version, gutless.

Yeah, the Sport isn't quite as exciting a prospect as their reputation suggests. They're basically cosmetic only changes over base 328. Maybe LSD was only an option on Sport models but hardly any have it anyway. Has to be said though, they are very good cosmetic changes. The wheels especially.

I don't think that's true. As far as I know, 'sport' cars had different springs and dampers along with different bushes to give different geo change characteristics under load; these bushes also made the wheelbase of sport cars slightly longer.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=13...

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/how-do...

The LSD that you mention was an option on early 6 cyl cars.

[InitialDave]

For what it's worth, there's an E36 on the cover of the latest Practical Classics.

[s m]

161BMW said:

What was the E21 323i like ?

Very 'adjustable'. You could understand why they got withdrawn from the market in Sweden For the money I paid for it it was hard to look past them 5-speed box, Recaros, opening rear quarter vents, sunroof, LSD - 15-20 years ago there were loads of cheap spares for them too. Only had small 13" wheels so was cheap on tyres

[blade7]

RobM77 said:

Gad-Westy said:

blade7 said:

My 328 Coupe wasn't a Sport, it had the wheels and bodykit though. Other than the headlining and front seats there didn't seem much justification for the Sport being nearly twice the money 8 or 9 years ago. As for the 318iS it reminded me of the E30 version, gutless.

Yeah, the Sport isn't quite as exciting a prospect as their reputation suggests. They're basically cosmetic only changes over base 328. Maybe LSD was only an option on Sport models but hardly any have it anyway. Has to be said though, they are very good cosmetic changes. The wheels especially.

I don't think that's true. As far as I know, 'sport' cars had different springs and dampers along with different bushes to give different geo change characteristics under load; these bushes also made the wheelbase of sport cars slightly longer.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=13...

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/how-do...

The LSD that you mention was an option on early 6 cyl cars.

If I recall correctly my car had M-Tech suspension originally (whatever that was) in any case it was lowered on a Bilstein kit when I bought it. I chose a Coupe with a low mileage replacement BMW linered block over a Sport with the original Nikasil time bomb block.

[SidewaysSi]

Sports had different suspension, wider tyres etc. Of course unless replaced, most cars will need a suspension refresh anyway.

[RobM77]

SidewaysSi said:

Sports had different suspension, wider tyres etc. Of course unless replaced, most cars will need a suspension refresh anyway.

This is very true. BMWs seem particularly sensitive to suspension wear. I've replaced suspension on three that I've owned. Generally this will be between 60k and 90k, although it depends on what use the car's had. With my current car I didn't buy a sport at all, I just got the right car without worrying about the suspension and put a full Birds kit on it.

[g3org3y]

Carlton Banks said:

Here she is out with some friends

Nice friends

[T-bagger]

Is the E36 becoming a classic? I think and hope it is, a nice example really stands out when you see one on the road among more modern stuff.
Of course I hope they hold their value too, as even though I don’t plan on selling it once finished, it would be nice to know that the time and money I’m pouring into this would be retained in the vehicles value.
Currently taking the whole under body back to bare metal.

[Murphy16]

T-bagger said:

Love how there's 20 years between the two cars, but you can clearly see the evolution in the lights and grille and bumper. Some other marquees have kinda abandoned their 'face'.

[s m]

Still popular at the Chambery car-wash

[Stick Legs]

161BMW said:

What was the E21 323i like ?

Manual E21 323i with a slipper is a lot of fun. Probably too much for grown ups,

[SidewaysSi]

RobM77 said:

SidewaysSi said:

Sports had different suspension, wider tyres etc. Of course unless replaced, most cars will need a suspension refresh anyway.

This is very true. BMWs seem particularly sensitive to suspension wear. I've replaced suspension on three that I've owned. Generally this will be between 60k and 90k, although it depends on what use the car's had. With my current car I didn't buy a sport at all, I just got the right car without worrying about the suspension and put a full Birds kit on it.

The full Birds kit must be great.

I have just taken delivery of a Mishimoto radiator and Eibach adjustable ARBs which will get fitted this week. Also got hold of a Z3 rack which is going to be rebuilt and put on the car.

Currently mine has the Bilstein B12 kit, E30 arms, M3 bushes, X Brace, Vibratechnics mounts etc. It is a very well resolved road car and now more agile and fun.

Got a few more mods to do (M50, BBTB, 3.64 diff, LSD etc) then I will just keep it as my practical family car for many years to come.

[iguana]

SidewaysSi said:

How do people find the engine mass of the M3? I haven't driven an E36 but I found the front end quite heavy in the E46. Allied to usual dull standard steering and I didn't gel with the front end.

Perhaps it could be sorted with some Vibratechnics mounts?

Shorter rack, more camber, solid guibo etc good effects, well still pretty numb but better, however over priced engine mounts do nothing at all.

[s m]

iguana said:

SidewaysSi said:

How do people find the engine mass of the M3? I haven't driven an E36 but I found the front end quite heavy in the E46. Allied to usual dull standard steering and I didn't gel with the front end.

Perhaps it could be sorted with some Vibratechnics mounts?

Shorter rack, more camber, solid guibo etc good effects, well still pretty numb but better, however over priced engine mounts do nothing at all.

M3 EVO rack is the same ratio as a normal E36 one - will have Lock limiters on so might 'seem' less turns lock to lock but is in effect the same ratio - about 3.2 turns lock to lock instead of about 3.4 without lock limiters.
3 litre M3 is a quirky rack with a lot of straight-ahead 'sneeze factor'. Many people don't like the 'feel' of it.

M-cars usually have substantially more caster than non-M cars that provides more more dynamic -ve camber ( as opposed to static -ve camber ) as wheel is turned away from straight ahead position. Also selef-centreing effect
This was also the reason for the Avus pack eccentric bushes at front on the 328i Sport

By the way Si, the Z3 rack ( or a late E46/Compact rack ) will be a faster ratio than any M3 one, CSL included

[RobM77]

SidewaysSi said:

RobM77 said:

SidewaysSi said:

Sports had different suspension, wider tyres etc. Of course unless replaced, most cars will need a suspension refresh anyway.

This is very true. BMWs seem particularly sensitive to suspension wear. I've replaced suspension on three that I've owned. Generally this will be between 60k and 90k, although it depends on what use the car's had. With my current car I didn't buy a sport at all, I just got the right car without worrying about the suspension and put a full Birds kit on it.

The full Birds kit must be great.

I have just taken delivery of a Mishimoto radiator and Eibach adjustable ARBs which will get fitted this week. Also got hold of a Z3 rack which is going to be rebuilt and put on the car.

Currently mine has the Bilstein B12 kit, E30 arms, M3 bushes, X Brace, Vibratechnics mounts etc. It is a very well resolved road car and now more agile and fun.

Got a few more mods to do (M50, BBTB, 3.64 diff, LSD etc) then I will just keep it as my practical family car for many years to come.

It is thanks, yes. The anti-roll bars especially improve the cornering massively. If I knew what I was doing then I'd play with the geo next. It's a very good setup as it is though for UK roads.

[Kettmark]

Drove my e36 318is to the mot station today. First outing for 5 months. Feels like a breath of fresh air after more modern machinery.