A year with the P1
Discussion
After a year with the P1 I thought I'd give my thoughts. I've done about 13k miles on motorway, 'A' roads and one track day. I'm not a believer that cars should be cosseted and hidden away for weekend use only, I need a car to be partially practical at least.
On that basis the P1 has to be as close to a practical supercar as you can get, certainly for the sort of budget that most of us stretch to. I bought the car for 24k last year, and I estimate it's probably dropped around 4-5k value this year - fairly average I'd say. Servicing has been light, as it's needs to visit Gatwick Subaru every 7,500 miles. £170 for interim services is very reasonable, although after 28k miles in total I'm now edging towards the £500 30k miles service.
Inside it's on the line between basic and luxory. Basic in that there are very few toys - no computers or gadets to alter the diff settings etc, but luxory in that what's there is well made. The seats are hugging and comfortable although being recaros you're always aware that their primary function is to hold you in place.
Being only 2 doors it can be awkward becuase the doors have to open a long way before you can get out. (Don't park too close to walls), but the door openings are huge which meant I was able to take a 12ft Xmas tree poking out of the window last year.
So what's it like to drive... well.....
0-60 in 4.6 seconds with 0-100 in 12. But as per usual the figures don't tell the full story. As an A to B vehicle this is astonishing. Flashes from other drivers are commonplace when 'making progress' simply because of the rate that you can safely sustain when travelling cross country. I can't help feeling if these drivers had a chance to sit in the P1 as passenger or driver, they would appreciate how quickly you can go and safely pass other traffic. The only caveat is that you let the other driver see you coming.
Acceleration in 1st and 2nd is explosive. A short ratio between 3rd and 4th helps keep the sensation of surging forwards and 5th is reserved for motorway use only. The gearing gives a theoretical top speed of around 160, which I came close to verifying in France with 3 people and a full weekend of luggage aboard. RS6 eat your heart out
There's fairly constant gearbox/4wd whine although this has been present in every Impreza I've ever owned/been in. It just adds to the "rally effect" IMHO, but it might not be to some people's taste. Again, there are disadvantages to the forced induction, but if you keep the engne singing towards it's 8,200 rpm redline you rarely see that - just the throttle response suffers as it spins up compared to the instant response of a NA car. In truth there's little above 7,500 and the torque curve drops away sharply leaving you to change usually around 7k rpm when "pushing on". In most day to day situation you find a natural change point at around 5,500 rpm but there's torque a-plenty if you do want to short change, just make sure your next gear arrives after the magic 3,000 rpm. In day to day driving you can get caught 'off boost', but hey this is a turbo'd car.
On the track day several people were suprised by the outright pace and braking capbility of the car. The 330mm Prodrive uprated brakes certainly help, and are big enough to keep stopping the car lap after lap without problems. My only issue now is that as the discs get thinner they have started to warp but with replacements just around the corner I'm not too concerned.
As you'd expect, the cornering is impressive - but unlike the standard WRXs the suspension on the P1 is very firm so it does feel more twitchy than those used to the "roll but grip" of the standard turbo. The P1 rolls a little and you certainly feel it on the track, but you get to feel the changes in grip instead of them being disguised so well that the first you know of it is when you're pulling yourself out of a hedge. It's incredibly sensitive to set up (or is it just that I notice it) so if you clip a kerb then a geometry check is a must.
Press on into corners on the track and go beyond the edge. No problem you're expecting, but is it? Hmm, chronic understeer. The front ploughs in and runs well wide. Avoid them temptation to wind on more lock and do the opposite. Wind off a half turn and the car does respond, but the understeer is disappointing. I'm assured that Prodrive do have a modification for this, but makes the car more unstable at the rear for bumps and jumps. If I was going on a track again this modification would be top of the list- there are times when I miss the wild power oversteer of the Griff. Trail braking does help, or plain old fashioned life-off oversteer. It's fun, but the P1 is pretty unshakeable in the dry and the back end only steps out a little before the 4wd whips it back in.
So what problems have I had? Well, there was a brief skirmish with a tyrewall whilst being driven by he who will remain nameless (!) at Folembray which resulted in panel damage but the body shop soon had the car looking tip top again. As with most Subarus the outside panels are lightweight making things look worse than they are, but underneath there was very little damage apart from an air con radiator. A front shock absorber has failed and been replaced under warranty, and that's it.
My only concern is that the car is so fast it's only a matter of time until my license goes too. Overtaking is too easy and it's a very able cruiser when you need to pound out the motorway miles.
So, there's my observations so far. The only disappointment is the understeer the rest is pure magic - but in day to day use you'd never know, and EVO have it down as quicker than the 'Rari 360.
I can myself holding onto this car for some time yet, but the FQ300 looks rather nice.....
On that basis the P1 has to be as close to a practical supercar as you can get, certainly for the sort of budget that most of us stretch to. I bought the car for 24k last year, and I estimate it's probably dropped around 4-5k value this year - fairly average I'd say. Servicing has been light, as it's needs to visit Gatwick Subaru every 7,500 miles. £170 for interim services is very reasonable, although after 28k miles in total I'm now edging towards the £500 30k miles service.
Inside it's on the line between basic and luxory. Basic in that there are very few toys - no computers or gadets to alter the diff settings etc, but luxory in that what's there is well made. The seats are hugging and comfortable although being recaros you're always aware that their primary function is to hold you in place.
Being only 2 doors it can be awkward becuase the doors have to open a long way before you can get out. (Don't park too close to walls), but the door openings are huge which meant I was able to take a 12ft Xmas tree poking out of the window last year.
So what's it like to drive... well.....
0-60 in 4.6 seconds with 0-100 in 12. But as per usual the figures don't tell the full story. As an A to B vehicle this is astonishing. Flashes from other drivers are commonplace when 'making progress' simply because of the rate that you can safely sustain when travelling cross country. I can't help feeling if these drivers had a chance to sit in the P1 as passenger or driver, they would appreciate how quickly you can go and safely pass other traffic. The only caveat is that you let the other driver see you coming.
Acceleration in 1st and 2nd is explosive. A short ratio between 3rd and 4th helps keep the sensation of surging forwards and 5th is reserved for motorway use only. The gearing gives a theoretical top speed of around 160, which I came close to verifying in France with 3 people and a full weekend of luggage aboard. RS6 eat your heart out
There's fairly constant gearbox/4wd whine although this has been present in every Impreza I've ever owned/been in. It just adds to the "rally effect" IMHO, but it might not be to some people's taste. Again, there are disadvantages to the forced induction, but if you keep the engne singing towards it's 8,200 rpm redline you rarely see that - just the throttle response suffers as it spins up compared to the instant response of a NA car. In truth there's little above 7,500 and the torque curve drops away sharply leaving you to change usually around 7k rpm when "pushing on". In most day to day situation you find a natural change point at around 5,500 rpm but there's torque a-plenty if you do want to short change, just make sure your next gear arrives after the magic 3,000 rpm. In day to day driving you can get caught 'off boost', but hey this is a turbo'd car.
On the track day several people were suprised by the outright pace and braking capbility of the car. The 330mm Prodrive uprated brakes certainly help, and are big enough to keep stopping the car lap after lap without problems. My only issue now is that as the discs get thinner they have started to warp but with replacements just around the corner I'm not too concerned.
As you'd expect, the cornering is impressive - but unlike the standard WRXs the suspension on the P1 is very firm so it does feel more twitchy than those used to the "roll but grip" of the standard turbo. The P1 rolls a little and you certainly feel it on the track, but you get to feel the changes in grip instead of them being disguised so well that the first you know of it is when you're pulling yourself out of a hedge. It's incredibly sensitive to set up (or is it just that I notice it) so if you clip a kerb then a geometry check is a must.
Press on into corners on the track and go beyond the edge. No problem you're expecting, but is it? Hmm, chronic understeer. The front ploughs in and runs well wide. Avoid them temptation to wind on more lock and do the opposite. Wind off a half turn and the car does respond, but the understeer is disappointing. I'm assured that Prodrive do have a modification for this, but makes the car more unstable at the rear for bumps and jumps. If I was going on a track again this modification would be top of the list- there are times when I miss the wild power oversteer of the Griff. Trail braking does help, or plain old fashioned life-off oversteer. It's fun, but the P1 is pretty unshakeable in the dry and the back end only steps out a little before the 4wd whips it back in.
So what problems have I had? Well, there was a brief skirmish with a tyrewall whilst being driven by he who will remain nameless (!) at Folembray which resulted in panel damage but the body shop soon had the car looking tip top again. As with most Subarus the outside panels are lightweight making things look worse than they are, but underneath there was very little damage apart from an air con radiator. A front shock absorber has failed and been replaced under warranty, and that's it.
My only concern is that the car is so fast it's only a matter of time until my license goes too. Overtaking is too easy and it's a very able cruiser when you need to pound out the motorway miles.
So, there's my observations so far. The only disappointment is the understeer the rest is pure magic - but in day to day use you'd never know, and EVO have it down as quicker than the 'Rari 360.
I can myself holding onto this car for some time yet, but the FQ300 looks rather nice.....
Yeah - the P1 is basically the Japanese 2 door with the STi engine (280 bhp as standard). Then Prodrive do lots of lovely things to the suspension and Subaru UK sell it.
So you get quite a few drivers in interesting machinery who think "pah, I'll eat an Impreza alive". A few brief moments later I'm easing back into a comfortable cruise with a small spec in the rear view mirror.
Boxsters are the worst for this! 
Cheers for the comments though!
So you get quite a few drivers in interesting machinery who think "pah, I'll eat an Impreza alive". A few brief moments later I'm easing back into a comfortable cruise with a small spec in the rear view mirror.
Boxsters are the worst for this! Cheers for the comments though!
JakeR said:
Made my Chim seem almost sluggish. gripped like nothing else and inspired huge confidence.
awesome car...
They are rather fun.....however a good Chimaera should be faster in the dry(although less forgiving)
smifffy said:
the understeer is disappointing.
Smifffy, how about trying left foot braking into/through corners? I find it's possible to get the back end out into a slight oversteer, that can then be held on the throttle (for fast 2nd gear & slow 3rd gear corners) - for fast 3rd gear corners it's pretty neutral, with power oversteer available.
I've had my P1 for 3 years today I think (happy birthday P1!) - here's some of my thoughts to add to Smifffys:
0-60 might be in 4.6 seconds, but with the Prodrive big brake upgrade 60-0 is in about 2.5 seconds - when my brother & I went out to test 'em, I managed to bruise his ribs from the seatbelt (and he was bracing himself)!!
Handling is very dependant on the rubber, with different characteristics depending on the make - original Pirelli PZeros are good in the dry, but after about half of their life they get completely crap in the wet & make the car understeer like a pig.
Bridgestone SO3PPs were excellent from beginning to end of their life, in all conditions - these were tires that seemed completely suited to the character of the car, plenty of grip, slightly edgy, but loads of feedback.
I'm currently running Goodyear F1s, on recommendation from the Evo mag's test, & I find them cr*p - they are very woolly, & I get snaking under heavy braking. Yes they seem to have a very mild breakaway, but this doesn't seem to suit the car at all (when going round the corner on the limit, minor turns of the steering wheel seem to make no difference, although you can still adjust with throttle/brake.
Mine has cost rather more than Smifffy's to run (and my Chimaera come to think of it, but still worth it though)
Having had a Scooby before, and aware of the light gauge metal that they use for all of the bolts & clips under the bonnet, the first thing I did when I brought the car home was to waxoyl all of them - 3 years on, this seems to have worked quite well, in that they aren't all corroded pieces of metal.
Stuff that needed doing - rebuilt gearbox at 6 months (factory hadn't tightened a bolt enough - done under warranty)
Standard disks/brakes fade fairly easily when pushing on, so I forked out £1500 for the Prodrive 330mm big brake upgrade - these only lasted me about 1.5 years (pads lasted less - @ £260 a pair) & they warped (with more than half their life left on 'em) - had 'em skimmed, but they warped again. )
I'm now waiting to be beta tester for some KAD replacement disks via Scoobysport (promised delivery tomorrow, but then they've been saying that every day for the last 2 weeks, and my car is off the road till it gets 'em
) My centre exhaust & backbox also disintegrated a few months ago, but were replaced under warranty.
The wiring loom to the headlights has also had to be replaced, cos both my headlight connectors had been arcing, causing them to melt the plastic/metal & burn out (probably due to the wonderful Scottish weather/salted roads etc)
Oh, also the Oxygen sensor would randomly give spurious signals, switching on the MIL light in the middle of no-where...
It still makes my hairs prickle when I look at it though
- my favourite drive was 2 New-years ago, when I drove up to Orkney - 250 miles of the journey through 1-3 inch snow - hardly anyone else on the road at 2am through the Highlands, every corner a sideways rally moment, using gears to slow down 'cos the ABS brakes are useless in the snow....just fantastic!!!!!(last 15 miles got a bit hairy though - took the shortcut to Thurso, and a blizzard hit me, so I had to pootle along what I hoped was the middle of the road, hopping out every few mins to clear the snow off the lights. ) >> Edited by CraigAlsop on Wednesday 12th November 23:11
Craig, good post.
I've got the brake upgrade too, so I'd love to hear how you get on with the new discs. As above, mine have warped too, although they are starting to approach the end of their life. Either way, I'd love to hear how you get on.
I've got the P Zero tyres too. To be honest I'm not that impressed, I find they lack outright grip. I agree with you that they are poor in the wet, I never feel I can commit to a corner when it's wet - the steering is telling me I'm driving on ice.
In the last few months of my previous Impreza I had SO3 PPs too and I thought they were fantastic although the softer compound led to replacement rather more quickly than the P Zeros which have lasted over 13k miles now. I think my SO3 PPs lasted about 8k miles and they give little warning when they're about to let go!
What pads do you use Craig? At the moment I'm using a new Prodrive uprated set supplied by the dealer. They seem a good compromise, in that they take a mile or two to warm through, but offer fade free hard braking from then on. The first few stops out of the garage can be interesting though!
I've tried lift off oversteer and left foot braking to get the rear end out, which you have to be in full hooligan mode to succeed in - but maybe I need to get Prodrive to play with the settings a little? In day to day driving it's irrelevant but if I do another track day in the P1 I'll definitely go for the new settings. (There was a reader's letter in Evo about this last month).
Cheers
I've got the brake upgrade too, so I'd love to hear how you get on with the new discs. As above, mine have warped too, although they are starting to approach the end of their life. Either way, I'd love to hear how you get on.
I've got the P Zero tyres too. To be honest I'm not that impressed, I find they lack outright grip. I agree with you that they are poor in the wet, I never feel I can commit to a corner when it's wet - the steering is telling me I'm driving on ice.
In the last few months of my previous Impreza I had SO3 PPs too and I thought they were fantastic although the softer compound led to replacement rather more quickly than the P Zeros which have lasted over 13k miles now. I think my SO3 PPs lasted about 8k miles and they give little warning when they're about to let go!
What pads do you use Craig? At the moment I'm using a new Prodrive uprated set supplied by the dealer. They seem a good compromise, in that they take a mile or two to warm through, but offer fade free hard braking from then on. The first few stops out of the garage can be interesting though!
I've tried lift off oversteer and left foot braking to get the rear end out, which you have to be in full hooligan mode to succeed in - but maybe I need to get Prodrive to play with the settings a little? In day to day driving it's irrelevant but if I do another track day in the P1 I'll definitely go for the new settings. (There was a reader's letter in Evo about this last month).
Cheers
smifffy said:
Craig, good post.
I've got the brake upgrade too, so I'd love to hear how you get on with the new discs. As above, mine have warped too, although they are starting to approach the end of their life. Either way, I'd love to hear how you get on.
Woohoo! Disks arrived today, so car is MOT'd & legal for another year. Scoobysport were supposed to send me some pads as well (not sure which ones to be honest), but they forgot to do this
, so I just got the dealer to put standard pads on it (I believe Ferodo DS2000 pads) - I wasn't aware of any other options - this must be the 2nd time they changed - 1st pads were too harsh & the dust eat into the paint, so they changed to the DS2000 pads apparently. I'm gonna do a round trip up to the North West coast of Scotland this weekend, driving through the Highlands, so hopefully they should be bedded in by then - weather forecast looks terrible....just the way I like it.....
They do seem to look the business - I'll see if I can get round to posting a picture in a few days...
smifffy said:
I think my SO3 PPs lasted about 8k miles and they give little warning when they're about to let go!
Sounds about right
- I managed 12K I think smifffy said:
I've tried lift off oversteer and left foot braking to get the rear end out, which you have to be in full hooligan mode to succeed in - but maybe I need to get Prodrive to play with the settings a little? In day to day driving it's irrelevant but if I do another track day in the P1 I'll definitely go for the new settings. (There was a reader's letter in Evo about this last month). Cheers
Yeah I remember that letter too
It has to be said though that I think the balance is about right - if you want it, it's there, you just have to drive it full-on & if you drive normally, it behaves safely with mild understeer. It's like there's a speed that you can't get to if you just drive a little bit faster round a corner & you understeer, but if you drive a lot faster, it all comes together & you get controllable oversteer - the old adage slow-in, fast-out just doesn't work in this case.
I was lucky enough to be taken round Knockhill by Robbie Head (then Subaru works Test driver), & I was impressed by how committed he was through each corner - there was nothing I thought I couldn't do technically, but being *that* committed through *every* corner was something else - he had the car completely on the grass on each side of the track before & after each corner, on one of the laps but because he entered each corner probably 15-20MPH faster than us lesser mortals, the chassis behaved differently, without a hint of understeer. (See here - this was his warmup lap - he really went to town on the next one....)
>> Edited by CraigAlsop on Thursday 13th November 23:45
smifffy said:There's a little bit more - these were just little mpegs from my Sony digital camera, as he got faster, I just decided to enjoy the ride
Got any more of that video Craig? Nice early turn in on the 2nd corner!
It'd be good to see some piccies of the discs. Are they grooved too, like the Prodrive ones?
Have a look under here - there's a few more mpeg clips, also some of Mike Wood from Prodrive, who's always good value for money....
New disks are grooved, but not as deep, and the grooves are straight. First impressions are OK, although they appear to have a (currently) very minor wobble under braking, so I'll see how I get on this weekend (it may be that my suspension bushes have some play, which I imagine could contribute to this) - I have also got my dealer to hold some Prodrive disks in stock for me, in case I'm not satisfied...
smifffy said:Just got back from my Highland Weekend - new KAD brakes are now almost much run in I think - stopping power seems to be excellent, although I still occasionally get some vibrations whilst braking through the 50MPH level - now think that this is just because the pad material hasn't completely covered the disk yet. I've uploaded a pic here - as you can see the wheel is a bit grubby from 600 miles of motoring - many along single track roads & mountain passes
It'd be good to see some piccies of the discs. Are they grooved too, like the Prodrive ones?
Interestingly the noise/feel of the brake is much more like the competition cars that I have driven (at Jonathan Palmer day) - a very aggressive, almost grinding kind of noise/vibration, but very effective.
I think that these are better than the original Prodrive Alcons, but with more noise & vibration (to some extent I'm nitpicking here, as it's no-where near the amount of vibration I had from the warped disks that were taken off)
Ok - interesting. Let me know how you get on as they bed in. Sounds like a great trip through the highlands - next time I get some time between contracts I think I may well take a few days to trundle up North for some fun!
I found when I had the uprated pads fitted I got much more braking noise, which sounded like a deep pitched humm. To be honest it doesn't bother me whatsoever, as long as the car stops - repeatedly and quickly
I'm going to try and get these pads & discs to last a little longer yet, so will reap the benefit from your experience!
>> Edited by smifffy on Monday 17th November 10:06
I found when I had the uprated pads fitted I got much more braking noise, which sounded like a deep pitched humm. To be honest it doesn't bother me whatsoever, as long as the car stops - repeatedly and quickly
I'm going to try and get these pads & discs to last a little longer yet, so will reap the benefit from your experience!
>> Edited by smifffy on Monday 17th November 10:06
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