MX5 recommended mods
Discussion
Hi Folks,
I've just [3 months ago] bought myself a new toy - a 1991 UK 1.6 mx5, I'm very happy with it, and it's about as mint as it gets for a 16 yr old car.
Having done my first Walshy day the other day [which was fantastic!], I was thinking about making some modifications to it and wondered whether people thought they were sensible or not.
1. New suspension - a mate, who has an elise, recommended lowered and stiffened suspension. After some phoning around - I was quoted 400 quid for springs and shocks, which seemed ok.
Does this seem a reasonable figure?
2. Now the harder one... I want to get a turbo for it as well. I have an '02 plate Golf GTI as well, and I miss the turbo 'rush' in the mazda!!
Having done extensive (!) research, I've settled on a small Greddy turbo that is supposed to give about another 45ish BHP. This one I'm less sure about.. and had a couple of questions.
- do I need an intercooler?
- if I don't get one, will it damage the engine, or just give me less power?
This seems to be coming in at around 1600 quid with the intercooler ( + 300 quid to fit) , which seems pretty reasonable.
The logic behind getting this one, as opposed to a bigger one, is that I won't have to change the brakes and diff, which seems like it might be needed with a larger one - and also, I don't want tonnes of lag from a turbo that takes ages to spin up.
Very Grateful for any experience that people can share!
-ace
I've just [3 months ago] bought myself a new toy - a 1991 UK 1.6 mx5, I'm very happy with it, and it's about as mint as it gets for a 16 yr old car.
Having done my first Walshy day the other day [which was fantastic!], I was thinking about making some modifications to it and wondered whether people thought they were sensible or not.
1. New suspension - a mate, who has an elise, recommended lowered and stiffened suspension. After some phoning around - I was quoted 400 quid for springs and shocks, which seemed ok.
Does this seem a reasonable figure?
2. Now the harder one... I want to get a turbo for it as well. I have an '02 plate Golf GTI as well, and I miss the turbo 'rush' in the mazda!!
Having done extensive (!) research, I've settled on a small Greddy turbo that is supposed to give about another 45ish BHP. This one I'm less sure about.. and had a couple of questions.
- do I need an intercooler?
- if I don't get one, will it damage the engine, or just give me less power?
This seems to be coming in at around 1600 quid with the intercooler ( + 300 quid to fit) , which seems pretty reasonable.
The logic behind getting this one, as opposed to a bigger one, is that I won't have to change the brakes and diff, which seems like it might be needed with a larger one - and also, I don't want tonnes of lag from a turbo that takes ages to spin up.
Very Grateful for any experience that people can share!
-ace
Personally, I would not go for a turbo on a car that age. The engine is sweet, and the car is all about the handling. If you go for the turbo, you would most likely benefit from an upgraded clutch. The standard brakes are fine for the standard car, better in the post '94 model - but for the turbo on a '91, I think a brake upgrade would be pretty much essential, I would have thought. Do go for the upgraded suspension - KYB AGXs with Flyin Miata or Racing Beat springs being a very popular choice, or Koni with Eibach springs being the other. I would check out Performace5 for their handling options.
You don't have to remove the engine to fit a Greddy turbo. And you won't recoup the costs on any mods like that. If you're worried about that, then you'd be better off buying an already modified car.
No intercooler will mean you'll have to run less boost to save damagine the engine. You'll only actually damage the engine without an IC if you up the boost too far and therefore increase the charge temps to the point where you get detonation.
The main problem people have with the Greddy kit is a lack of upgradeability. If, in 6 months down the line, you realise that you want a bit more power, you'll be able to use less of the existing kit than if you'd gone for an FM or BEGI or similar. Superchargers tend to suffer the same fate in that more power generally means a different, bigger charger.
Whether 400 is right for the suspension depends entirely on what springs and shocks they'd be fitting. Depending on money, you may also want to consider getting the bushes done at the same time as the original rubber bushes will likely be shot (one of my winter jobs). I personally have the Absolutely Shocks GAZ setup on my '91 and am very happy with it (bit more money though).
Oh, and brakes/diff - I plan personally on upgrading mine just with a conversion to a 1.8, let alone when I go FI. I've already got Axxis Ultimate pads (excellent - highly recommended) and stainless hoses. You can upgrade to 1.8 brakes by using the same calipers, just fitting the 1.8 brackets, discs and pads (standard discs and Axxis pads are recommended). Upgrading to a 1.8 diff will give you a stronger diff (8" instead of 7" from memory) and if you source the right one, limited slip. Neither of these are particularly expensive.
No intercooler will mean you'll have to run less boost to save damagine the engine. You'll only actually damage the engine without an IC if you up the boost too far and therefore increase the charge temps to the point where you get detonation.
The main problem people have with the Greddy kit is a lack of upgradeability. If, in 6 months down the line, you realise that you want a bit more power, you'll be able to use less of the existing kit than if you'd gone for an FM or BEGI or similar. Superchargers tend to suffer the same fate in that more power generally means a different, bigger charger.
Whether 400 is right for the suspension depends entirely on what springs and shocks they'd be fitting. Depending on money, you may also want to consider getting the bushes done at the same time as the original rubber bushes will likely be shot (one of my winter jobs). I personally have the Absolutely Shocks GAZ setup on my '91 and am very happy with it (bit more money though).
Oh, and brakes/diff - I plan personally on upgrading mine just with a conversion to a 1.8, let alone when I go FI. I've already got Axxis Ultimate pads (excellent - highly recommended) and stainless hoses. You can upgrade to 1.8 brakes by using the same calipers, just fitting the 1.8 brackets, discs and pads (standard discs and Axxis pads are recommended). Upgrading to a 1.8 diff will give you a stronger diff (8" instead of 7" from memory) and if you source the right one, limited slip. Neither of these are particularly expensive.
Thanks Guys - this is all really good advice.
I guess I'm at a crossroads, in that I have a totally Stock car at the moment and I know that as soon as I start tweaking it that
a) there is no going back!
b) I'll start spending money that I'll never recoup if I sell it!
Having said that, I bought it to have a laugh in, and do walshy/track days and the like - so I might as well enjoy it and not be precious about it.
I'll check out the super charger option. When I initially looked at this, it seemed ~ 2x the price of a turbo, which is why i discounted it - but I'll do some more research.
Interesting also about the strut bars. Wehen I was looking around for the car, I went to a japanese import specialist and checked out a couple of cars there. They were all heavily modded and that put me off - but they did all have the strut bars - I thought that they were just for show, seems I was wrong!
I guess I'm at a crossroads, in that I have a totally Stock car at the moment and I know that as soon as I start tweaking it that
a) there is no going back!
b) I'll start spending money that I'll never recoup if I sell it!
Having said that, I bought it to have a laugh in, and do walshy/track days and the like - so I might as well enjoy it and not be precious about it.
I'll check out the super charger option. When I initially looked at this, it seemed ~ 2x the price of a turbo, which is why i discounted it - but I'll do some more research.
Interesting also about the strut bars. Wehen I was looking around for the car, I went to a japanese import specialist and checked out a couple of cars there. They were all heavily modded and that put me off - but they did all have the strut bars - I thought that they were just for show, seems I was wrong!
Los Angeles said:
By a turbo and it will cost to remove the engine to fit it.
Edited by Los Angeles on Tuesday 14th November 23:08
er why would you need to remove the engine ?
My car and all its mods from day one of purchase, described, photos of fitment etc, covers suspension, turbo etc :-
www.mx5ocforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=32029
phatmanace said:
Having said that, I bought it to have a laugh in, and do walshy/track days and the like - so I might as well enjoy it and not be precious about it.
Why not try it with Mr Walsh / Track day as it is first? I had ideas about modding mine, but then had the best track day of my life in my Mk1 Eunos. The only mods are better pads, roll cage and the adjustable suspension that was on the car when I bought it. IMHO, superchargers / turbos might spoil your fun a little on track.
I did a trackday with my Eunos as n/a and I found it highly irritating catching everyone up on the bends, having to slow to their speeds to then have them accelerate effortlessly away on to every straight. With more power like in the old MR2 it makes it more entertaining / difficult exiting bends and straights are no longer boring or frustrating.
steve bowen said:
I did a trackday with my Eunos as n/a and I found it highly irritating catching everyone up on the bends, having to slow to their speeds to then have them accelerate effortlessly away on to every straight. With more power like in the old MR2 it makes it more entertaining / difficult exiting bends and straights are no longer boring or frustrating.
yup - when I went on the walshy day with two mates, one had an elise and one an S2000. I was definatley 'slow boy' - but I still really enjoyed it! The first half of the day, was just the 'left hand bend' test and having tonnes of power wouldn't be much use, but in the afternoon when we did the cone circuit, it would have been nice to have been able to hoof it down the straights more!
the car is definatley brilliant fun, I just wish it had an extra touch of power... I don't want a 230Bhp monster, just enough to:
- Overtake things without worring if I'm going to make it!
- Put a little smile on my face when I boot it on the straight
Makes sense. If I were you, I'd give Phil at Performance 5 a call and have a chat. He's a really nice guy who will talk you through all the options, costs, fitting costs, etc.
When it comes to power having mulled over the options (and i'll continue to do so until I get some cash!), i'd go for the supercharger option. You can still get over 200bhp out of them if you want to. Or keep it cheaper and you'll still see 170bhp ish. But you dont have to put up with the Greddy turbo dodgy manifold problems. Also in my case you cant get the greddy turbo on the 1.8 but even so I just prefer the idea of a supercharger install.
Buy a decent car with the mods on already!!!
In the classifieds, there is a nice blue car (re-sprayed) with all the right mods, nice wheels, sought after RS seats and a proper roll bar, currently running at 170bhp. The guy would take £500 plus a standard MX5 as trade in (or he would when I contacted him a while back).
In the classifieds, there is a nice blue car (re-sprayed) with all the right mods, nice wheels, sought after RS seats and a proper roll bar, currently running at 170bhp. The guy would take £500 plus a standard MX5 as trade in (or he would when I contacted him a while back).
Liokault said:
Buy a decent car with the mods on already!!!
In the classifieds, there is a nice blue car (re-sprayed) with all the right mods, nice wheels, sought after RS seats and a proper roll bar, currently running at 170bhp. The guy would take £500 plus a standard MX5 as trade in (or he would when I contacted him a while back).
In the classifieds, there is a nice blue car (re-sprayed) with all the right mods, nice wheels, sought after RS seats and a proper roll bar, currently running at 170bhp. The guy would take £500 plus a standard MX5 as trade in (or he would when I contacted him a while back).
I had a browse through and couldn't see this one.. I am probably being blind - would you mind posting the link to the ad so that I can take a butchers?
phatmanace said:
Liokault said:
Buy a decent car with the mods on already!!!
In the classifieds, there is a nice blue car (re-sprayed) with all the right mods, nice wheels, sought after RS seats and a proper roll bar, currently running at 170bhp. The guy would take £500 plus a standard MX5 as trade in (or he would when I contacted him a while back).
In the classifieds, there is a nice blue car (re-sprayed) with all the right mods, nice wheels, sought after RS seats and a proper roll bar, currently running at 170bhp. The guy would take £500 plus a standard MX5 as trade in (or he would when I contacted him a while back).
I had a browse through and couldn't see this one.. I am probably being blind - would you mind posting the link to the ad so that I can take a butchers?
It'd be this one I reckon
www.pistonheads.com/sales/107232.htm
I must admit, I've had my eye on it
Couple of urban myths being floated around here.
Greddy kits can get you an approx 40% increase in power, the same as the JR supercharger kit for about 950 quid. The SC will cost you nearer 2 grand. The greddy kit will bolt on in a day working by yourself with a decent socket set and will be reliable at the Greddy recommended boost level for years to come with a few mods to the kit before fitting. Some suppliers already make the mods before selling the kits, but basically the manifold need relief cuts in the flange (hacksaw) and some upgraded bolts. The kit can be fitted by anyone who can fit say an exhaust or change the oil. To get it running nicely you're better off adding some extras to the kit such as a heatshield, a bipes or msd timing device and upgrading the silicone connectors to 4ply, though the Greddy ones will last a year or so. You don't need an intercooler at this boost level. You don't need a dump valve. From here, there are a number of upgrade options but you may be happy with the power level, and it's a reasonable power level to stay at with an otherwise stock early car, with stock clutch diff and brakes.
Greddy kits can get you an approx 40% increase in power, the same as the JR supercharger kit for about 950 quid. The SC will cost you nearer 2 grand. The greddy kit will bolt on in a day working by yourself with a decent socket set and will be reliable at the Greddy recommended boost level for years to come with a few mods to the kit before fitting. Some suppliers already make the mods before selling the kits, but basically the manifold need relief cuts in the flange (hacksaw) and some upgraded bolts. The kit can be fitted by anyone who can fit say an exhaust or change the oil. To get it running nicely you're better off adding some extras to the kit such as a heatshield, a bipes or msd timing device and upgrading the silicone connectors to 4ply, though the Greddy ones will last a year or so. You don't need an intercooler at this boost level. You don't need a dump valve. From here, there are a number of upgrade options but you may be happy with the power level, and it's a reasonable power level to stay at with an otherwise stock early car, with stock clutch diff and brakes.
mxroadster said:
Couple of urban myths being floated around here.
Greddy kits can get you an approx 40% increase in power, the same as the JR supercharger kit for about 950 quid. The SC will cost you nearer 2 grand.
Greddy kits can get you an approx 40% increase in power, the same as the JR supercharger kit for about 950 quid. The SC will cost you nearer 2 grand.
yup - if you discount the intercooler - then the small turbo kit is much cheaper.
I am going to investigate how much I would get for my car if I sold it ( totally wrong time of year though - I know!) as considering I want to sort the brakes, suspension, wheels and power, it might be cheaper to get an already modded car!
Cheers
-Ace
keep it standard'ish and you'll a have a ball, i drove my 1.6 eunos round spa for 2 days solid with no problems. save the money you'll spend on a super charger/turbo for some proper tuition and learn how to carry the speed through the corners onto the straights. i use std' 14 inch wheels, upgraded race brake pads and fluid but still managed eau rouge flat in fourth at 105 mph every lap. mate of mine who works at grey paul in notts has a 285 hp mx5, garret t28 turbo 20psi boost massive intercooler on a std eng. it eats gearboxes diffs, it is frigtening and almost undriveable wheel spins in 5th at 80 mph when on full boost.
Best upgrade to an MX-5? Sell it, buy an RX-7 
Seriously though, power's addictive - you'll pop a small turbo in there and a month down the line you'll start getting that itch again. The next power hike will be even more expensive. The one after that painfully pricey.
Best to spend you money on improving the handling and breaking and actually on track days and tuition.
10mph extra out of a bend onto the streight is worth a few grand's horsepower.
Seriously though, power's addictive - you'll pop a small turbo in there and a month down the line you'll start getting that itch again. The next power hike will be even more expensive. The one after that painfully pricey.
Best to spend you money on improving the handling and breaking and actually on track days and tuition.
10mph extra out of a bend onto the streight is worth a few grand's horsepower.
Hmmm some right internet codswallop going on here...
Sorry to offend but its not all true
THINGS TO DO THAT REALLY IMPROVE THE MX5 remove the tie-down hooks from the mouth which everyone and dealers think are tow hooks - and if used thus will cause damage -
When those items are done then think about more power.
This one always makes me laugh & it's utter internet codswallop, yes they are probably used to tie the car down on the boat, but if you've ever taken them off they are substantially attatched with 3 17mm bolts, made from 6mm plate steel & attatch to the main chassis legs they also weigh 2+kg each. They are also the same part as used on many other Mazda's front & rear!!! They are every bit as structural as the toweyes on my current 1600kg Toyota.
THINGS TO DO THAT OFFER MORE ACCELERATION.
Buy a turbo and it will cost to remove the engine to fit it.
Not true: I fitted one on my own car (HKS) remove intake ducting, remove exhaust manifold & downpipe still attached through the bonnet apperture, fit new maifold & bits all in situ. I did use the existing oil drain on the r/h side of the engine from when this was the old 323 GTX engine, I just used an oil drain crossover pipe that worked fine
Either way none will do if the car has a high mileage.
The engine as mentioned above is almost identical to the 323 Turbo engine, just the rods & pistons are different. The engines are one of the most bombproof available if running fine they'll happily run 200bhp in standard internals without fail. Mine had 140k km's on it when I turbo'd mine it put up with 220bhp for 25k miles, it's now been de-turbo'd is used as an everyday car.
Best to add a cold air duct for a few pounds and gain up to 10 horsepower decent bang for your bucks.
Any dyno test will reveal you'd be lucky to get 3-4bhp from this mod, if that with a reduction torque in low down (so less power at that point) The original ducting is actually quite efficient using tuned length sections & pulse generators. The restriction is not in the intake but the head/valving. Though such a mod will make a nice noise & feel fast!!
Sorry to offend but its not all true
Los Angeles said:
THINGS TO DO THAT REALLY IMPROVE THE MX5 remove the tie-down hooks from the mouth which everyone and dealers think are tow hooks - and if used thus will cause damage -
When those items are done then think about more power.
This one always makes me laugh & it's utter internet codswallop, yes they are probably used to tie the car down on the boat, but if you've ever taken them off they are substantially attatched with 3 17mm bolts, made from 6mm plate steel & attatch to the main chassis legs they also weigh 2+kg each. They are also the same part as used on many other Mazda's front & rear!!! They are every bit as structural as the toweyes on my current 1600kg Toyota.
Los Angeles said:
THINGS TO DO THAT OFFER MORE ACCELERATION.
Buy a turbo and it will cost to remove the engine to fit it.
Not true: I fitted one on my own car (HKS) remove intake ducting, remove exhaust manifold & downpipe still attached through the bonnet apperture, fit new maifold & bits all in situ. I did use the existing oil drain on the r/h side of the engine from when this was the old 323 GTX engine, I just used an oil drain crossover pipe that worked fine
Los Angeles said:
Either way none will do if the car has a high mileage.
The engine as mentioned above is almost identical to the 323 Turbo engine, just the rods & pistons are different. The engines are one of the most bombproof available if running fine they'll happily run 200bhp in standard internals without fail. Mine had 140k km's on it when I turbo'd mine it put up with 220bhp for 25k miles, it's now been de-turbo'd is used as an everyday car.
Los Angeles said:
Best to add a cold air duct for a few pounds and gain up to 10 horsepower decent bang for your bucks.
Any dyno test will reveal you'd be lucky to get 3-4bhp from this mod, if that with a reduction torque in low down (so less power at that point) The original ducting is actually quite efficient using tuned length sections & pulse generators. The restriction is not in the intake but the head/valving. Though such a mod will make a nice noise & feel fast!!
pikeyboy said:
keep it standard'ish and you'll a have a ball, i drove my 1.6 eunos round spa for 2 days solid with no problems. save the money you'll spend on a super charger/turbo for some proper tuition and learn how to carry the speed through the corners onto the straights.
yep - it's a reasonable point. I think that the problem is that i also have golf gti 1.8T, which also isn't a very powerful car, in the general scheme of things. But the turbo 'kick' in the golf really puts a smile on my face, and I miss it in the mx5!
I've had one walshy day, and now really appriciate how easy it is to spin it :-) . Also - I definalty wouldnt go for the 230bhp+ conversion, one because I don't have that much cash, and secondly, I think i'd kill myself - if I could get it up to the same power as my golf (150bhp ish) - i'd be a happy bunny!
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