Discussion
I am considering exchanging my car pretty soon. I currently own a 1998 model M3 Evo Coupe which only gets used on sunny weekends as I have a company car and the wife is looking after a friends Polo at the moment.
Has anyone had an experience of an S2000 that they would be happy to share information on. Points regarding performance, handling, economy, service from dealers, warranty issues, component failures, etc.
The car would become an everyday runner as the Polo has to be returned soon. So the wife would be driving it to work and back (No worries as she used to drive my 300bhp Sapph Cossie, she knows not to curb wheels!!) Is an S2000 something that she would get along with.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Other possibles include the Porsche Boxster or TVR Griffith.
Has anyone had an experience of an S2000 that they would be happy to share information on. Points regarding performance, handling, economy, service from dealers, warranty issues, component failures, etc.
The car would become an everyday runner as the Polo has to be returned soon. So the wife would be driving it to work and back (No worries as she used to drive my 300bhp Sapph Cossie, she knows not to curb wheels!!) Is an S2000 something that she would get along with.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Other possibles include the Porsche Boxster or TVR Griffith.
I had one, I now have another one on order thanks to black ice and a bank.
The S2000 is good value for money, it was designed and built by Honda to celebrate their 50th birthday and is a showcase of all they feel they do well - great engine, fantastic gearbox and fantastic dry-weather handling. I have often taken the S2000 on track days even though I have a '7'esque car to use. It surprises many people with it's on-track performance and the machinery it can keep up with.
Dealers are OK if you choose carefully (look for a dealer with a mechanic qualified to work on the NSX, the Civic/Accord monkeys don't have a clue generally), servicing is cheap and not much goes wrong with them.
However as a daily driver it's flawed - in the wet it demands respect and in the snow/ice it's almost impossible. The setup just isn't benign enough for the weather we experience in this country, there is nothing in the way of traction control and 240bhp goes through the rear wheels - if you're not used to RWD and/or that amount of power and you don't have a BIG dose of respect for the car you can easily come a cropper. For the really bad days, you need a second car. I took mine out on an icy day in January and ended up rolling it down a bank and writing it off - I was doing 25mph(!) and have done all sorts of driver training in the last couple of years including a car control course with Don Palmer where I spent the whole day going sideways.
As I say, I have another one on order and can heartily recommend them as reliable and quick alternatives to the usual TT, Z3(4?), SLK alternatives at simlar prices. However, if your other half wants an easy to get along with, easy to drive car I would go for the Boxster (although for the same price as a new S2000 you won't get much....).
Hope this helps.
>> Edited by Mark Benson on Tuesday 18th February 11:01
The S2000 is good value for money, it was designed and built by Honda to celebrate their 50th birthday and is a showcase of all they feel they do well - great engine, fantastic gearbox and fantastic dry-weather handling. I have often taken the S2000 on track days even though I have a '7'esque car to use. It surprises many people with it's on-track performance and the machinery it can keep up with.
Dealers are OK if you choose carefully (look for a dealer with a mechanic qualified to work on the NSX, the Civic/Accord monkeys don't have a clue generally), servicing is cheap and not much goes wrong with them.
However as a daily driver it's flawed - in the wet it demands respect and in the snow/ice it's almost impossible. The setup just isn't benign enough for the weather we experience in this country, there is nothing in the way of traction control and 240bhp goes through the rear wheels - if you're not used to RWD and/or that amount of power and you don't have a BIG dose of respect for the car you can easily come a cropper. For the really bad days, you need a second car. I took mine out on an icy day in January and ended up rolling it down a bank and writing it off - I was doing 25mph(!) and have done all sorts of driver training in the last couple of years including a car control course with Don Palmer where I spent the whole day going sideways.
As I say, I have another one on order and can heartily recommend them as reliable and quick alternatives to the usual TT, Z3(4?), SLK alternatives at simlar prices. However, if your other half wants an easy to get along with, easy to drive car I would go for the Boxster (although for the same price as a new S2000 you won't get much....).
Hope this helps.
>> Edited by Mark Benson on Tuesday 18th February 11:01
I expect to take delivery of a new S2000GT before the end of March that will be the daily driver for my wife.
She is a good driver and has experience of powerful rear drive cars (Nissan 200SX) but I'm very aware of the S2000's high power, lack of any traction control and reputation for wagging it's tail, so plan to fit Racelogic traction control at least before next winter.
See www.racelogic.co.uk/ (click the Traction Control button)
At £645+vat it seems a sensible precaution for a car that surely should have it fitted as standard.
Apparently Honda do a roaring trade in new wheels for the S2000 (back steps out and meets kerb bending wheel) so we may actually recoup the TC outlay on new wheels AND of course you can always remove it and fit it to your next car if required or even sell it on.
She is a good driver and has experience of powerful rear drive cars (Nissan 200SX) but I'm very aware of the S2000's high power, lack of any traction control and reputation for wagging it's tail, so plan to fit Racelogic traction control at least before next winter.
See www.racelogic.co.uk/ (click the Traction Control button)
At £645+vat it seems a sensible precaution for a car that surely should have it fitted as standard.
Apparently Honda do a roaring trade in new wheels for the S2000 (back steps out and meets kerb bending wheel) so we may actually recoup the TC outlay on new wheels AND of course you can always remove it and fit it to your next car if required or even sell it on.
I have owned a 2002 model for 9 months and would recommend one wholeheartedly.
Dealers:
No where near as knowledgeable as they should be. Make sure you find a good one for servicing etc.
Margin on a new car is roughly 5.5 %. I got £1000 off mine (no trade-in). Free mats and a full tank (I did a right car wrong car and it worked !)
Reliability:
Flawless. Cars were recently recalled to have new spark plug and a revised oil jet fitted to the engine. The spark plugs would occasionally unwind themselves and the no 4 cylinder suffered oil
starvation if driven very hard round sweeping bends (like on a track). Honda added 12 months to the engine and drivetrain warranty.
Performance:
Someone once said "drive it like you stole it". You have to, to get the best from the engine. Below 6000 rpm its as fast as any 2.0 litre hot hatch. Once you hit vtec zone the noise is fantastic . Autocar tested it a 0 - 60 in 5.7, standing quarter in 14.7. Faster than a standard Boxster, a lot slower that a Griff !
Handling:
The poor chap who crashed hit black ice - it doesn't matter what you drive, you go off the road on black ice. The OEM tyres are designed for ultimate dry weather grip. Saying that, the handling is not as bad as many would have you believe. It weighs 1250 kilos, has 240 bhp and is rear wheel drive. What do you expect FFS. The 2002 models onward have revised suspension which has removed a lot of the snap from the back end. Since you are coming from an M3, I'm sure you know what you are doing - just don't expect the car to be as gentle in its break away. 1999 - 2001 cars can have their suspension realigned to 2002 settings.
Steering:
The cars worst feature. Direct, a nice quick rack, but to numb.
Running costs:
Insurance is group 20. My insurance quote was cheaper than an E36 M3 though. Servicing is dirt cheap when compared to a Griff (£95 - £300 depending on mileage). On a blast I get in the high teens mpg. On a cruise 35 mpg. Tyres every 12 - 14000 miles based on the current wear rate (£450 - 500 a set from Bracknell tyres IIRC)
Warranty issues etc:
Apart from those mentioned above, some 1999 - 2001 cars had problems with the gearbox and clutch. Honda technical service bulleting 054 and 055 (TSB's) cover this. If you are buying used, ask if these have been done. Don't worry if they haven't - not all cars were affected.
Get yourself over to www.s2ki.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=5eeff927051efd5ae33ab1188441886d&forumid=25
everything you need to know is over there.
Dealers:
No where near as knowledgeable as they should be. Make sure you find a good one for servicing etc.
Margin on a new car is roughly 5.5 %. I got £1000 off mine (no trade-in). Free mats and a full tank (I did a right car wrong car and it worked !)
Reliability:
Flawless. Cars were recently recalled to have new spark plug and a revised oil jet fitted to the engine. The spark plugs would occasionally unwind themselves and the no 4 cylinder suffered oil
starvation if driven very hard round sweeping bends (like on a track). Honda added 12 months to the engine and drivetrain warranty.
Performance:
Someone once said "drive it like you stole it". You have to, to get the best from the engine. Below 6000 rpm its as fast as any 2.0 litre hot hatch. Once you hit vtec zone the noise is fantastic . Autocar tested it a 0 - 60 in 5.7, standing quarter in 14.7. Faster than a standard Boxster, a lot slower that a Griff !
Handling:
The poor chap who crashed hit black ice - it doesn't matter what you drive, you go off the road on black ice. The OEM tyres are designed for ultimate dry weather grip. Saying that, the handling is not as bad as many would have you believe. It weighs 1250 kilos, has 240 bhp and is rear wheel drive. What do you expect FFS. The 2002 models onward have revised suspension which has removed a lot of the snap from the back end. Since you are coming from an M3, I'm sure you know what you are doing - just don't expect the car to be as gentle in its break away. 1999 - 2001 cars can have their suspension realigned to 2002 settings.
Steering:
The cars worst feature. Direct, a nice quick rack, but to numb.
Running costs:
Insurance is group 20. My insurance quote was cheaper than an E36 M3 though. Servicing is dirt cheap when compared to a Griff (£95 - £300 depending on mileage). On a blast I get in the high teens mpg. On a cruise 35 mpg. Tyres every 12 - 14000 miles based on the current wear rate (£450 - 500 a set from Bracknell tyres IIRC)
Warranty issues etc:
Apart from those mentioned above, some 1999 - 2001 cars had problems with the gearbox and clutch. Honda technical service bulleting 054 and 055 (TSB's) cover this. If you are buying used, ask if these have been done. Don't worry if they haven't - not all cars were affected.
Get yourself over to www.s2ki.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=5eeff927051efd5ae33ab1188441886d&forumid=25
everything you need to know is over there.
Thankyou all for the reference material.
Very helpful.
The handling characteristics are going to be similar to the M3 in the rear drive aspect. Even though the BM has 321bhp I have never really come into trouble even in the wet as the LSD (25% slip) seems to do its job very well. I assume that the difference in the Honda's dynamics is that it is lighter and has more frontal weight distribution such that the rear gets less traction.
We propose to test drive a 2002 model at Cloverleaf Honda in Ascot on the weekend so I shall let you know how we get on. BTW Has anyone used this dealer or can recommend a more S2k knowledgeable dealer in the Surrey/N.Hants/Berks area.
I am currently paying £800 fully comp on the M3 as it is group 20 with 20% loading. However it is only on a limited mileage policy (3000pa), as the wife's commute will command more then we will probably return to Admiral who have been very good in the past.
As for servicing and running I believe that I will save a small fortune as Baron's of Farnborough charge £95ph labour and an Inspection 2 service tips the scales at £950 without any extras such as pads/discs/tyres etc. Rear tyres are currently costing me £160+ each (best from Roadwheel of Bagshot) so maybe another saving there.
Finally, what is the build quality of the interior like as I had a Honda Civic SE as a hire car recently and my god, it looked so brittle. Nasty plastic! I suppose it is part of Jap ownership. Is the S2k similar or a lot better?
TIA
James
Very helpful.
The handling characteristics are going to be similar to the M3 in the rear drive aspect. Even though the BM has 321bhp I have never really come into trouble even in the wet as the LSD (25% slip) seems to do its job very well. I assume that the difference in the Honda's dynamics is that it is lighter and has more frontal weight distribution such that the rear gets less traction.
We propose to test drive a 2002 model at Cloverleaf Honda in Ascot on the weekend so I shall let you know how we get on. BTW Has anyone used this dealer or can recommend a more S2k knowledgeable dealer in the Surrey/N.Hants/Berks area.
I am currently paying £800 fully comp on the M3 as it is group 20 with 20% loading. However it is only on a limited mileage policy (3000pa), as the wife's commute will command more then we will probably return to Admiral who have been very good in the past.
As for servicing and running I believe that I will save a small fortune as Baron's of Farnborough charge £95ph labour and an Inspection 2 service tips the scales at £950 without any extras such as pads/discs/tyres etc. Rear tyres are currently costing me £160+ each (best from Roadwheel of Bagshot) so maybe another saving there.
Finally, what is the build quality of the interior like as I had a Honda Civic SE as a hire car recently and my god, it looked so brittle. Nasty plastic! I suppose it is part of Jap ownership. Is the S2k similar or a lot better?
TIA
James
My mate has just bought one of these in black, and it really looks the business! We went out for a country lane blast last week, and I had real difficulty keeping up with him (was in my Griff). He knew the lanes and I didn't, but even so - great car! (plus the dash looks like something out of Knight Rider!)
James,
The S2000 dash is 'driver focussed' in that all the instruments and controls are clustered round the driver's hands which makes the rest of the dash look like a large expanse of plastic - but it makes all the controls vey easy to use for the driver.
Quality is better than a lot of Japanese interiors, but don't expect BMW standard. Switches have a good positive feel though, in general it feels well screwed together.
Marshalls of Reading are probably the most knowledgeable in your area, I work in Reading and have used them for servicing, they seem to know what they're doing.
Weight distribution is 50:50 - I think the comments about being 'twitchy' in the wet are a bit overstated, as I said originally, it's 240bhp and no traction control - I don't think a lot of people realise quite what that means, and come from a FWD hatch to an S2000 expecting to be able to drive it the same in wet and dry. if you and your wife have RWD experience then I wouldn't worry too much.
HTH
Mark.
The S2000 dash is 'driver focussed' in that all the instruments and controls are clustered round the driver's hands which makes the rest of the dash look like a large expanse of plastic - but it makes all the controls vey easy to use for the driver.
Quality is better than a lot of Japanese interiors, but don't expect BMW standard. Switches have a good positive feel though, in general it feels well screwed together.
Marshalls of Reading are probably the most knowledgeable in your area, I work in Reading and have used them for servicing, they seem to know what they're doing.
Weight distribution is 50:50 - I think the comments about being 'twitchy' in the wet are a bit overstated, as I said originally, it's 240bhp and no traction control - I don't think a lot of people realise quite what that means, and come from a FWD hatch to an S2000 expecting to be able to drive it the same in wet and dry. if you and your wife have RWD experience then I wouldn't worry too much.
HTH
Mark.
Hi James,
Although not as knowlegeable as owners like Mr Benson, I can say that I had no problems living with the S2000 for a few days when testing one for Pistonheads.
Don't worry about all that 'back wheels hitting the kerb it the wet' stuff. It rained torrentially during the test period, so I can tell you that if you drive it sensibly it's not a problem. In fact I found it was the front tyres that slid first, but that was pushing it a bit fast into a greasy roundabout.
Even in torrential rain the hood never leaked and there's a decent size boot, so it should be practical enough as a daily driver. And so much more exclusive than a Boxster...
Although not as knowlegeable as owners like Mr Benson, I can say that I had no problems living with the S2000 for a few days when testing one for Pistonheads.
Don't worry about all that 'back wheels hitting the kerb it the wet' stuff. It rained torrentially during the test period, so I can tell you that if you drive it sensibly it's not a problem. In fact I found it was the front tyres that slid first, but that was pushing it a bit fast into a greasy roundabout.
Even in torrential rain the hood never leaked and there's a decent size boot, so it should be practical enough as a daily driver. And so much more exclusive than a Boxster...
As much as I like S2000, i couldn't afford one, so I got summit else.... I imported a 94 MR2 Turbo... Now before you think of the hardresser comments, (which I get all the time!), just think of a mid-engine-rear wheel drive configuration, with a factory 245 bhp turbo engine! Mine is running at 280 with a few cheap mods. Great fun, and will keep up with damn almost anything in the twisties, and has the grunt to get to 160+ on the..erm.. private road! Ahem. Well worth considering, especially as not that many people realise the potential, much to their embarrasment! 0-60 in 5.2, and Toyota reliability! Wicked stuff! Just don't buy a red one!... Ooops..I've rambled on in my excitment... Yikes
PS... You can get 2 sets of clubs in the back! I know...I took 2 sets to Scotland!
>> Edited by Andy Mac on Wednesday 19th February 17:16
PS... You can get 2 sets of clubs in the back! I know...I took 2 sets to Scotland!
>> Edited by Andy Mac on Wednesday 19th February 17:16
No drive yet!!!!
Went to Guildford Honda and the sales guy just wasnt interested. Even told me that the car didnt have LSD?!??!
Anyway have booked up at Cloverleaf Honda Ascot for a test on Wednesday so I shall keep you posted.
Nicer inside than I thought. That engine looks a bit small! I suppose I am used to seeing a 3.2 six pot though.
Went to Guildford Honda and the sales guy just wasnt interested. Even told me that the car didnt have LSD?!??!
Anyway have booked up at Cloverleaf Honda Ascot for a test on Wednesday so I shall keep you posted.
Nicer inside than I thought. That engine looks a bit small! I suppose I am used to seeing a 3.2 six pot though.
The small engine is a feature. It's pretty much 2l displacement, but tiny - just like an F1 engine according to my salesman 
.
I would take your golf clubs with you. The boot is decent, but nothing compared to a Mk2 MR2. They may fit in, but well worth checking.
Mine should come in June, and I can't wait. The only consistent advice that I have heard is to get the OEM tyres off before it gets cold. I haven't heard anyone say that they have any grip at all in anything more than a light drizzle
.
On your test drive, get the roof off, windows down and wind the engine to 9000 revs in a few gears.
You are a better man than me if you can resist after that.
Rich
. I would take your golf clubs with you. The boot is decent, but nothing compared to a Mk2 MR2. They may fit in, but well worth checking.
Mine should come in June, and I can't wait. The only consistent advice that I have heard is to get the OEM tyres off before it gets cold. I haven't heard anyone say that they have any grip at all in anything more than a light drizzle
. On your test drive, get the roof off, windows down and wind the engine to 9000 revs in a few gears.
You are a better man than me if you can resist after that.
Rich
daydreamer said: The only consistent advice that I have heard is to get the OEM tyres off before it gets cold. I haven't heard anyone say that they have any grip at all in anything more than a light drizzle
It's the temperature, not the wet where the OEM S02s are a 'problem'. They actually shed water OK for such a wide tyre, the problem is the compound needs a bit of heat to get to operating temperature. They don't have to be hot, but at low temperatures the rubber remains quite solid, reducing the tyre's effectiveness.
Bridgestone and Honda developed a special Potenza S02 (the S02JZ) for the S2000, but I'm guessing it was developed in Japan and/or the US, and tested in warmer conditions.
The UK climate isn't warm enough in winter for the OEM tyres to quickly reach operating temp, and if the road is wet, it's even more difficult for them to retain heat.
In warmer weather, they will grip very well, even in the rain.
M3EVO said: Can anyone recommend a good alternative piece of rubber?
My current M3 uses Michelin Pilot Sports which give great grip in the wet and dry. They dont wear quickly either like Yoko's etc. Are these suitable for the S2000?
Some of the guys on www.s2ki.com have switched to Goodyear eagle F1 GSD3. Please note that the size of a rear S02JZ is 225, but it has a contact patch nearer that of a 245. Most owners if switching from the S02, use 245/45 on the rear.
DRIVEN.
General - Well I must admit that the overall build quality and finish is superb and running costs are simply budget compared to the M3. 3yr Warranty is great and extendable to give up to 90k cover. Very good. Salesman at Cloverleaf was superb.
Handling - Last night in Berkshire the roads were dry and I experienced a firm but forgiving ride which appeared to ride over bad surfaces well. Turn-in on tight bends was instant with no hint of understeer and although I never really pushed it the back end kept in check. There was very little body roll. It did squirm a little as the rear tyres lit up on hard acceleration but not a great deal as the car remained pointing towards the chosen horizon.
Brakes - I slowed down when the lorry pulled out. From very fast to slow enough, (public road so I shall not reveal figures). Very good but I imagine they could fade after a couple of laps on a track.
Engine - The worst and best bit. I still don't think that I have ever heard a nice sounding 4-pot at full song, however this one came near it. It reminded me of my old E30 M3 2.3l. Very similar drive. Now do not take this personally (s2k owners). Due to the nature of the engine ie. 9000rpm peak power produced at 8600rpm I would imagine that peak torque is produced fairly high up the revs as well. This is noticeable during a road drive as you have to work the gear-box hard to make good progress. The light flywheel keeps the engine spinning nicely through the gears but a drop of 2-3 gears is necessary to get past cars/lorries safely. I found this frustrating.
Overall - Not as quick as I thought it would be and didnt leave me astounded as the M3 did after driving for the first time. The thing is the BM has reproduced that same feeling everytime I have driven it since. I dont think the Honda could do this. My wife is yet to look at the car before we make a decision. What I need to know is, are there any modifications to the car (chip, airbox, exhaust) that will give a stronger midrange? If the car had that little bit more it would have sold it there and then. I enquired about Mugen products but the dealer knew nothing about them.
Any ideas?
TIA
James
General - Well I must admit that the overall build quality and finish is superb and running costs are simply budget compared to the M3. 3yr Warranty is great and extendable to give up to 90k cover. Very good. Salesman at Cloverleaf was superb.
Handling - Last night in Berkshire the roads were dry and I experienced a firm but forgiving ride which appeared to ride over bad surfaces well. Turn-in on tight bends was instant with no hint of understeer and although I never really pushed it the back end kept in check. There was very little body roll. It did squirm a little as the rear tyres lit up on hard acceleration but not a great deal as the car remained pointing towards the chosen horizon.
Brakes - I slowed down when the lorry pulled out. From very fast to slow enough, (public road so I shall not reveal figures). Very good but I imagine they could fade after a couple of laps on a track.
Engine - The worst and best bit. I still don't think that I have ever heard a nice sounding 4-pot at full song, however this one came near it. It reminded me of my old E30 M3 2.3l. Very similar drive. Now do not take this personally (s2k owners). Due to the nature of the engine ie. 9000rpm peak power produced at 8600rpm I would imagine that peak torque is produced fairly high up the revs as well. This is noticeable during a road drive as you have to work the gear-box hard to make good progress. The light flywheel keeps the engine spinning nicely through the gears but a drop of 2-3 gears is necessary to get past cars/lorries safely. I found this frustrating.
Overall - Not as quick as I thought it would be and didnt leave me astounded as the M3 did after driving for the first time. The thing is the BM has reproduced that same feeling everytime I have driven it since. I dont think the Honda could do this. My wife is yet to look at the car before we make a decision. What I need to know is, are there any modifications to the car (chip, airbox, exhaust) that will give a stronger midrange? If the car had that little bit more it would have sold it there and then. I enquired about Mugen products but the dealer knew nothing about them.
Any ideas?
TIA
James
There is not much that you can do to give the car more midrange apart from fit a turbo or supercharger as some of our American and Japanese cousins have. I will admit that driving mine on very tight and twisty roads requires a lot of gear changing, but having owned two Hondas before I guess I am used to the high rev range and have adapted my driving style to suit. Its unrealistic to expect a 2litre 4-pot to give anything like the response of a 3.2 litre 6-pot, it is after all 84 bhp and 100+ lb ft down on the M3, even though it is 200 kilos lighter. It sounds like you need to drive a Boxster or a TT225 if you want a convertible or wait for the 350Z later in the year. The Boxster will not disappoint (although its slower in a straight line than the S2000 and £6k more), as for the TT, well its nicely built (it weighs over 1600 kilos in convertible form !), "nice" to drive, but no sports car. Finally, you can of course get a cheaper TVR Chimaera or Griffith and spend the difference running and maintaining it. I would not use one as everyday transport though.
You are correct about the power difference between the M3 and the S2000 but I thought that the difference in body weight would compensate a little. Anyway, we are both going to go out this weekend and have a good look around at what is available. I would like to have my wife's opinion on the car as she will be driving it more than I will. I know for a fact that I would be able to use this car on a track day without any problems. Watch this space.
PS I would never go for the Audi as I really despise the styling. Just a personal thing.
PS I would never go for the Audi as I really despise the styling. Just a personal thing.
I test drove an S2000 when I had my Chimaera and came away thoroughly underwhelmed. I jsut found it too hard work to enjoy really despite being a fanatastic car in most other areas.
I have just bought an E36 M3 GT and it makes me grin every time I touch the Go pedal - The TVR did that and it is the main thing missing from the S2000 IMHO.
There ain't no replacement for displacement as a wise man once said!!
I have just bought an E36 M3 GT and it makes me grin every time I touch the Go pedal - The TVR did that and it is the main thing missing from the S2000 IMHO.
There ain't no replacement for displacement as a wise man once said!!
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