S2000 OR TT 240 QUATTRO
Discussion
I've driven an S2000 and was very impressed, although it wasn't the driver's car I was hoping for in terms of handling or feedback and the seating position seemed to be designed for a 5 foot woman. I've never driven an Audi TT, but my best guess is that there is no steering feel, and it is heavy and understeerey. Therefore out of those two I would go for the S2000, but obviously drive the TT first! I wouldn't mind betting that the Honda would be better built, more reliable and cheaper to run as well.
No she's got a mazda eunos, the 1.8l special edition 
Beemer-5 said:
I had an S2000, lovely car, great engine and reliability, but the handling gets a bit exciting.
RobM77 said:
I've driven an S2000 and was very impressed, although it wasn't the driver's car I was hoping for in terms of handling or feedback and the seating position seemed to be designed for a 5 foot woman.
Interesting comparisons: Beemer-5 says 'exciting handling', Rob says 'not enough of a drivers car re: handling'.
I can answer that dichotomy. There are two settings for the pre-04 cars - Factory, and UK-Optimum.
I had the alignment done on my S2000 yesterday, and originally I had closer to UK-Optimum, otherwise known as 'granny-spec'. So yesterday we reduced castor substantially, giving a lot more steering feedback. It's no Elise, but it's easily enough now (felt very like the v.8 STi I drove last year), and you get a good feel for what's happening...before it was a bit syrupy, a bit cotton-wool. At the same time I reduced front and rear camber to Factory settings, and set rear-toe to minimum tolerance.
It now handles so much better, feels far more alive. I love it - before it was merely good, if a little numb. Now it handles a lot more like my old 'teg, and I grinned the whole drive home!!!
But it's a car that has to be driven, and it's a car which can bite in the wet or if you're very clumsy...although I'm firmly of the opinion that if you're driving rwd in the wet you exercise caution, which to me is just common-sense.
In short: If you know how to drive a car properly, and want a fun car, get an S2000. It is sensitive to suspension set-up (it felt like a completely different car), but it is involving, rewarding, and above all it's a Honda.
If you want something safe, secure, with a lot of image and not enough finesse/involvement, get the TT.
Edit: Rob, my wife is a 5'3" woman, and she's if anything a little close to the wheel. I'm 5'10" and it's just perfect!
Edited by havoc on Monday 26th June 15:28
havoc said:
Beemer-5 said:
I had an S2000, lovely car, great engine and reliability, but the handling gets a bit exciting.
RobM77 said:
I've driven an S2000 and was very impressed, although it wasn't the driver's car I was hoping for in terms of handling or feedback and the seating position seemed to be designed for a 5 foot woman.
Interesting comparisons: Beemer-5 says 'exciting handling', Rob says 'not enough of a drivers car re: handling'.
I can answer that dichotomy. There are two settings for the pre-04 cars - Factory, and UK-Optimum.
I had the alignment done on my S2000 yesterday, and originally I had closer to UK-Optimum, otherwise known as 'granny-spec'. So yesterday we reduced castor substantially, giving a lot more steering feedback. It's no Elise, but it's easily enough now (felt very like the v.8 STi I drove last year), and you get a good feel for what's happening...before it was a bit syrupy, a bit cotton-wool. At the same time I reduced front and rear camber to Factory settings, and set rear-toe to minimum tolerance.
It now handles so much better, feels far more alive. I love it - before it was merely good, if a little numb. Now it handles a lot more like my old 'teg, and I grinned the whole drive home!!!
But it's a car that has to be driven, and it's a car which can bite in the wet or if you're very clumsy...although I'm firmly of the opinion that if you're driving rwd in the wet you exercise caution, which to me is just common-sense.
In short: If you know how to drive a car properly, and want a fun car, get an S2000. It is sensitive to suspension set-up (it felt like a completely different car), but it is involving, rewarding, and above all it's a Honda.
If you want something safe, secure, with a lot of image and not enough finesse/involvement, get the TT.
Edit: Rob, my wife is a 5'3" woman, and she's if anything a little close to the wheel. I'm 5'10" and it's just perfect!
Edited by havoc on Monday 26th June 15:28
That's really interesting to read all about the handling changes that you've made. I couldn't help but be tempted to part with cash when I looked at the S2000 because the design inside and out is so clean and neat, and the execution of it is performed with such quality. I found the handling on the standard model that I drove just not quite as sporty or as involving as I had hoped for. I was hoping for a step on from an MX5, and instead it just felt a little squidgy and, as you say, remote. That's why I'm so interested to read your post
The steering feel was also pretty poor - could have been much better. Everyone has a different take on handling and feedback I suppose. I bought an Elise in the end, and that level of handling and feedback is what I want everyday. For the weekend or for the track, I would ideally like a Caterham. Those are my two benchmarks really.
My comment regarding a 5 foot woman was the height of the steering wheel. It was in my lap!! It felt plainly ridiculous - I felt like I was in a kiddies pedal car.
Rob,
Read your review.
OK - steering wheel. I guess you've chunky legs...mine are more cricket-player than rugby-player, and I've no problem. And it's just the right distance from my shoulders.
Steering feel. Massive change by adjusting the castor. Previously it was syrupy...well-weighted and linear weighting while cornering, but only getting info over rough surfaces. Now it's lighter (little too light perhaps - as I said, Scooby-like), but still linear loading and more grainy. Still not QUITE a 'teg, Focus or MX-5, let alone an Elise, but clearly better than MR2, IMHO.
Engine. It does need a thicker mid-range, certainly for the poke it's supposed to have. But it pulls in the mid-range about as quick as my Focus TDCi...the lack of torque is deceptive, it feels slower but isn't really, never feels under-endowed in the rush-hour commute, and you've always that PERFECT gearbox!
Noise. Needs a bit more bass and 'snarl' (says he coming from a 'teg, the best 4-pot sound around), even in VTEC...but there's now't wrong with the volume change at VTEC.
Throttle-steering. Still new to rwd, still learning it. Not easy, but I did get it spot on once, coming through a fast-tight-S (right turn off r'bout, then sudden sweeper left as accelerating)...got the tail about 5deg out on the second part of the corner, little oppo smoothed it into line without any jerkiness. And TBH, even with the old settings it'd need to be wet/greasy AND you driving hard for you not to catch the back-end...you get plenty of notice. New rear settings (less toe-in, less camber)...will let you know, not done much aggressive driving yet. But they SHOULD be smoother if a bit quicker to break.
Passive rear-steer. A Honda trait. Missing before, now quite happily there, feels great...back-end wants to get involved when cornering hard, but feels confident, not unnerving. I grinned from ear-to-ear after one wide roundabout!!!
Compared to VX220: Not as direct steering, steering feel notably less, less overall feedback (but still good, esp. thru seat). Doesn't feel quite as 'race car'. Can feel extra weight.
But...better exhaust noise, throttle response, gearbox, and pedal-weighting. Better build quality, practicality, and ease-of-access to everything. Better visibility, top-up and -down.
Both have good seats and driving position...Honda's feels a bit more comfy and a bit more 'normal'. But both are nice.
Hope this helps,
Martin
Read your review.
OK - steering wheel. I guess you've chunky legs...mine are more cricket-player than rugby-player, and I've no problem. And it's just the right distance from my shoulders.
Steering feel. Massive change by adjusting the castor. Previously it was syrupy...well-weighted and linear weighting while cornering, but only getting info over rough surfaces. Now it's lighter (little too light perhaps - as I said, Scooby-like), but still linear loading and more grainy. Still not QUITE a 'teg, Focus or MX-5, let alone an Elise, but clearly better than MR2, IMHO.
Engine. It does need a thicker mid-range, certainly for the poke it's supposed to have. But it pulls in the mid-range about as quick as my Focus TDCi...the lack of torque is deceptive, it feels slower but isn't really, never feels under-endowed in the rush-hour commute, and you've always that PERFECT gearbox!
Noise. Needs a bit more bass and 'snarl' (says he coming from a 'teg, the best 4-pot sound around), even in VTEC...but there's now't wrong with the volume change at VTEC.
Throttle-steering. Still new to rwd, still learning it. Not easy, but I did get it spot on once, coming through a fast-tight-S (right turn off r'bout, then sudden sweeper left as accelerating)...got the tail about 5deg out on the second part of the corner, little oppo smoothed it into line without any jerkiness. And TBH, even with the old settings it'd need to be wet/greasy AND you driving hard for you not to catch the back-end...you get plenty of notice. New rear settings (less toe-in, less camber)...will let you know, not done much aggressive driving yet. But they SHOULD be smoother if a bit quicker to break.
Passive rear-steer. A Honda trait. Missing before, now quite happily there, feels great...back-end wants to get involved when cornering hard, but feels confident, not unnerving. I grinned from ear-to-ear after one wide roundabout!!!
Compared to VX220: Not as direct steering, steering feel notably less, less overall feedback (but still good, esp. thru seat). Doesn't feel quite as 'race car'. Can feel extra weight.
But...better exhaust noise, throttle response, gearbox, and pedal-weighting. Better build quality, practicality, and ease-of-access to everything. Better visibility, top-up and -down.
Both have good seats and driving position...Honda's feels a bit more comfy and a bit more 'normal'. But both are nice.
Hope this helps,
Martin
Edited by havoc on Thursday 29th June 10:32
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