Subaru Legacys - info sought

[mudplugger]

I am thinking of buying a different car for my daily commute, something a little faster. At present I use a Fiat Marea TD100 estate which is about the right size, with reasonable fuel economy, and handles well enough (I've even done 5 laps of Nordschleiffe in it), although both bigger and quicker would be good. I have considered Volvo V70 D5, or TDI with a chip, as that seemed quick enough when I had one for a couple of weeks but it did feel a little lardy on the twisties.

This is a family car, so it needs to be safe with a strong shell and airbags, carry several bicycles in the back etc. Its also likely to do around 30,000 miles/annum so comfort and fuel consumption are far more important to me than outright performance. In terms of running costs it is not lost on me that depreciation is the major factor, and I have suffered more of that on my Elise since buying it 3 years ago than I propose to spend on this car!

Looking around I suspect that a Subaru Legacy may fit my needs if I fit it with a LPG kit, perhaps using a toroidal tank in the spare wheel well. Not being in a hurry, I'd happily import one privately and so probably save enough to counter what would otherwise be the first year's depreciation.

Looking at ths ads I see lots of different Legacys for sale though: some are called "quad cam", some "twin turbo", some quote 200bhp, others 270bhp, one even claims 380bhp ... so now I'm confused, what are the options? What came as standard from the factory (so presumably most reliable in daily use?) and what is [heavily] modified?

And is there a model that lets me vary the F/R torque bias so that I can get throttle-controlled oversteer on demand, rather than default understeer?

Any and all advice appreciated.

[GravelBen]

what age cars are you looking at? over the years the different engine options have been 1.8, 2.0 4cam, 2.2, 2.5, 2.5 4cam, 3.0 flat-6, 2.0 turbo, 2.0 twin turbo, and I think 2.5 turbo now.

standard outputs vary from a pathetic 120bhp or less from the early 1.8s to around 280bhp from some standard turbo versions. easily tweaked to 300bhp or so, but much more than that must be fairly heavily modified.

quad cam is basically equivalent to DOHC in a regular engine, but because a boxer engine has 2 heads it technically has 4 cams (dohc on each head).

I don't know of any Legacies with an adjustable centre diff, only certain STi Imprezas. However Legacies still have plenty of grip and nicely balanced handling for a 'family wagon', and AWD traction is obviously excellent.


>> Edited by GravelBen on Sunday 12th February 20:08

[mudplugger]

I guess I'm looking to spend around the £5k mark, plus or minus whatever is necessary to get what I want in terms of the right age for the performance. Then I'll stick on the LPG kit (which I can of course remove again when I sell the car).

I certainly don't want less than 200bhp, 250bhp or more being preferable, so from what you say I guess that will dictate age and therefore price. How much should I be expecting to spend? The lack of bottom-end torque in my Elise always annoys me, so I don't want a gutless daily drive as well (that's why I like my Marea TD, good torque out of corners). TBH I prefer diesels in most respects, but I know the boxer has reasonable bottom-end for a small(ish) petrol engine.

The "excellent AWD traction" to which you refer is, in truth, the only thing that worries me. I well remember nearly crashing an Audi Quattro S1 on tarmac many years ago because I couldn't get the thing to steer on the throttle due to the way the transmission worked. I tried a ProDrive Impreza, with Eibach suspension, a few years back but didn't but it because while it was undeniably quick, it was also (to my mind) not a lot of fun because I couldn't slide it around on the throttle... it simply wouldn't let ago with any semblance of sanity in the driving. Hence my question about variable centre diff, because I believe that such things were available on some of the Imprezas?

[GravelBen]

yeah I can see your point, with most AWD cars (excluding very high powered machines) if you want to slide them around you have to set them up sliding under brakes as you enter the corner, and then use the traction to accelerate out of the slide (except in v. slippy conditions). DCCD-equipped Imprezas are quite different though, with the diff open they have a 64r/36f static torque split, and variable diff lock-up to the point where fully locked all 4 wheels have to turn at the same rate. obviously locked is not good on tarmac but excellent in snow/gravel.

unfortunately they only put the DCCD (driver controlled centre diff) into STi-R coupes and RA sedans, not into the wagons, so that kinda rules it out for your use.

[vixpy1]

Legacy GTB twin turbo estate.. get a manual one and you won't go wrong

[mudplugger]

GravelBen said:

yeah I can see your point, with most AWD cars (excluding very high powered machines) if you want to slide them around you have to set them up sliding under brakes as you enter the corner, and then use the traction to accelerate out of the slide. unfortunately they only put the DCCD (driver controlled centre diff) into STi-R coupes and RA sedans, not into the wagons, so that kinda rules it out for your use.

Yeah, I remember hooning about in a chipped 4x4 Sierra Cosworth doing just that, left foot braking to keep the turbo permanently spinning... but on gravel rally stages! To be frank, it's not a sensible way to drive on public roads with my son in the car, so I won't, ever... but he does enjoy it when I start sliding the Elise around and he absolutely loved the Nurburgring :-) so I want something that we can 'enjoy' together.

Is it really just the diff (and presumably a dash mounted switch) that changes to fit DCCD, or is there much more like gearbox casing, electric motors, shafts, ECU... ? If its not too many components, could I perhaps buy one second-hand and retro-fit it to a (probably older) Legacy? I'm reasonably handy in the workshop, although far from a pro' mechanic.

[mudplugger]

vixpy1 said:

Legacy GTB twin turbo estate.. get a manual one and you won't go wrong

Thanks, what sort of age, price, engine size, bhp etc are they?

Does the GTB designation have any particular meaning? You seem pretty confident about that particular one.

What is the suspension and handling like on that model?

[vixpy1]

mudplugger said:

vixpy1 said: Legacy GTB twin turbo estate.. get a manual one and you won't go wrong Thanks, what sort of age, price, engine size, bhp etc are they? Does the GTB designation have any particular meaning? You seem pretty confident about that particular one. What is the suspension and handling like on that model?

The GTB is the estate, although the B4 saloon is also good. 280bhp, 2 litre twin sequential turbo.. Suspension and handleing is good, but they are softer sprung than the impreza's.

I'm about to put a six speed box and rear diff off an impreza on mine, so will let you know i get on..

for more info on the Legacys... www.uklegacy.com

[GravelBen]

mudplugger said:

Is it really just the diff (and presumably a dash mounted switch) that changes to fit DCCD, or is there much more like gearbox casing, electric motors, shafts, ECU... ? If its not too many components, could I perhaps buy one second-hand and retro-fit it to a (probably older) Legacy? I'm reasonably handy in the workshop, although far from a pro' mechanic.

rather than a switch theres a small dial beside the handbrake, and a column of small light in between the speedo and tacho to show how locked it is.

A transplant may well be possible, the Impreza and Legacy do share alot of mechanicals, though I dont know the exact details of what parts you need for the DCCD. you could try asking on www.scoobynet.co.uk , theres a few guys on there who know a lot about it, and if you search around a bit theres also a fully translated users manual for DCCD hiding on the site as well.

let us know how you get on