2004 Civic Type R Vs 1999 Integra Type R
Discussion
Hi guys, I am thinking of going with the integra as it is supposed to be the better car.
What do you think? Are the running costs fairly similar? What Should I look out for when buying one?
I like the look of the 1999 integra in the classifieds, can anyone vouch for its condition. I know its a bit pricey, but I think it is worth it.
What do you think? Are the running costs fairly similar? What Should I look out for when buying one?
I like the look of the 1999 integra in the classifieds, can anyone vouch for its condition. I know its a bit pricey, but I think it is worth it.
From my limited knowledge
CTR
Electric power steering
197ps
2.0 16V
Grippy chassis with traction control
0-60 in the sixes
ITR (DC2)
Conventional PAS
190ps
1.8 16V
Limited slip differential
Very well regarded FWD handling. Powerful but peaky engine.
0-60 in the sevens
ITR is the better car IMO but it is uncompromising - which you may find tiresome. ITR (DC2)s will all be getting on a bit now.
CTR
Electric power steering
197ps
2.0 16V
Grippy chassis with traction control
0-60 in the sixes
ITR (DC2)
Conventional PAS
190ps
1.8 16V
Limited slip differential
Very well regarded FWD handling. Powerful but peaky engine.
0-60 in the sevens
ITR is the better car IMO but it is uncompromising - which you may find tiresome. ITR (DC2)s will all be getting on a bit now.
0-60 in the DC2 is low 6's. the DC5 was in the 7's.
depends what you're after in the car. the civic will be a more everyday friendly car. but the teg will be more enjoyable and just as well manoured for daily use.
www.itr-dc2.com
www.civictype-r.com
depends what you're after in the car. the civic will be a more everyday friendly car. but the teg will be more enjoyable and just as well manoured for daily use.
www.itr-dc2.com
www.civictype-r.com
rsvmilly said:
From my limited knowledge
CTR
Electric power steering
197ps
2.0 16V
Grippy chassis with traction control
0-60 in the sixes
ITR (DC2)
Conventional PAS
190ps
1.8 16V
Limited slip differential
Very well regarded FWD handling. Powerful but peaky engine.
0-60 in the sevens
ITR is the better car IMO but it is uncompromising - which you may find tiresome. ITR (DC2)s will all be getting on a bit now.
The CTR doesn't have traction control and really suffers from the lack of an LSD, which the ITR does have.
It depends what your criteria are for making it a better car really. The ITR is the better drivers car, but you will end up with an older car than if you went for the CTR.
NikB said:By better car I was talking about the purer driving machine. I've heard that the steering on the ITR is supposed to be far better than the CTR.
It depends what your criteria are for making it a better car really. The ITR is the better drivers car, but you will end up with an older car than if you went for the CTR.
As to day-to-day use, I've driven a CTR and at 120 it was composed and relatively quiet. I understand that the ITR lost a lot of soundproofing in its quest for lightness.
rsvmilly said:
As to day-to-day use, I've driven a CTR and at 120 it was composed and relatively quiet. I understand that the ITR lost a lot of soundproofing in its quest for lightness.
in that the DC2 has NO sound deadening. its all the better for it. the civic has electrocrappy assist= no feel. the DC2 is more conventional= tonnes of feels.
in terms of drivers car, the civic hasn't got anything on the DC2.
ITR, all the way. But then I'm biased.
I lived with one for 3 years and 50k miles and loved EVERY minute. It was a little loud at M-way speeds, but perfectly habitable, great seats and driving position, huge boot (if shallow), great steering, THAT engine sound, flatters you if you drive it badly, ups it's game to meet you every-single-effing-time if you drive it well. I do regret selling mine, but it needed a lot of work and I just couldn't afford to do it all at the time. I almost certainly will get another one in the future.
As a driving proposition, the CTR is far short in involvement, a bit lacking in adjustability and friendiness, but is bloody close in outright grip and pace. But a CTR will be a fair bit newer (issue now as all ITRs are 5-years old or more), easier to find a good one, and will need less money spending on it.
So...if you've the cash and want the best, definitely ITR. If you've a budget to stick to, CTR will be safer. Also depends what you like - CTR looks modern, ITR looks very 90's Jap.
I lived with one for 3 years and 50k miles and loved EVERY minute. It was a little loud at M-way speeds, but perfectly habitable, great seats and driving position, huge boot (if shallow), great steering, THAT engine sound, flatters you if you drive it badly, ups it's game to meet you every-single-effing-time if you drive it well. I do regret selling mine, but it needed a lot of work and I just couldn't afford to do it all at the time. I almost certainly will get another one in the future.
As a driving proposition, the CTR is far short in involvement, a bit lacking in adjustability and friendiness, but is bloody close in outright grip and pace. But a CTR will be a fair bit newer (issue now as all ITRs are 5-years old or more), easier to find a good one, and will need less money spending on it.
So...if you've the cash and want the best, definitely ITR. If you've a budget to stick to, CTR will be safer. Also depends what you like - CTR looks modern, ITR looks very 90's Jap.
ITR servicing fairly reasonable, but Honda dealers do try it on with 'Type R' rates. Given it's the same techs working I think it's taking the piss.
Find a good specialist, but one that's been around for a while...I used a now-defunct place in Daventry and had some, ah, problems.
Ingress/Egress...piece of cake. For a sports car. No different really to 200SX or Fiat Coupe, and a lot easier than Elise/VX.
Seriously, the ITR is very habitable day-to-day, as long as you're not racking up rocket ship miles, where the suspension and lack of NVH absorption might wear you out.
The only real concern I'd have with buying one now is condition and potential bills...but go in eyes-open and it's a LOT of car for the money.
Find a good specialist, but one that's been around for a while...I used a now-defunct place in Daventry and had some, ah, problems.
Ingress/Egress...piece of cake. For a sports car. No different really to 200SX or Fiat Coupe, and a lot easier than Elise/VX.
Seriously, the ITR is very habitable day-to-day, as long as you're not racking up rocket ship miles, where the suspension and lack of NVH absorption might wear you out.
The only real concern I'd have with buying one now is condition and potential bills...but go in eyes-open and it's a LOT of car for the money.
havoc said:
Ingress/Egress...piece of cake. For a sports car. No different really to 200SX or Fiat Coupe, and a lot easier than Elise/VX.
Make sure the side squabs of the drivers seat are not collapsed due to people of "generous" build getting in and out without moving the seat back. Can be fixed but is pricey due to the cost of new alcantara.
Other than that, the doors open wide and apart from being low, they are easy to get in and out of - my mother who is late 50s and with a bad back didn't have any snags.
Glen
>> Edited by GlenMH on Saturday 21st January 18:19
Harry Flashman said:
Fit a Quaife LSD to the CTR for about £500. Job done.
i have been informed that doing this will knacker the EPS (electric power steering) - might be easier to import a JDM-spec Civic Type-R - it's cheaper, yet it has 220bhp (like the DC5 Integra), hydraulic power-steering and that missing LSD...
I've got a CTR, came to it from a leon cupra. The lack of feel in the steering will surprise you at first and you will probably also find it ridiculously light! You do get used to this fairly quickly however, within a day or two the weight of the steering felt perfectly normal although still lacking in feel. It is no worse than the cupra, though certainly not as good as my old mondeo! 
CTR also has all the (controllable) lift-off oversteer you could want and is surprisingly resistant to understeer. The Integra is better although I've never driven any. The DC2 was too old for me and the DC5 too expensive and group 20 insurance!
With regards an LSD, it does suffer at lowish speeds for not having one. Instead of buying an imported civic just buy the Honda LSD that they put on them, fairly sure that it wont wreck your power steering that way, I think they're around £300?
Running costs really do vary with the type of use they get, during the week mostly driving in London I usually only see around 21mpg and on average get about 230ish miles out of a £42 fill up. People who use them moslty on M-ways get around high 20's low 30's mpg. Boundless, constant Vtec-ing will empty a tank in not much more than 160 miles as I discovered!
>> Edited by .Z. on Sunday 22 January 14:49
CTR also has all the (controllable) lift-off oversteer you could want and is surprisingly resistant to understeer. The Integra is better although I've never driven any. The DC2 was too old for me and the DC5 too expensive and group 20 insurance!
With regards an LSD, it does suffer at lowish speeds for not having one. Instead of buying an imported civic just buy the Honda LSD that they put on them, fairly sure that it wont wreck your power steering that way, I think they're around £300?
Running costs really do vary with the type of use they get, during the week mostly driving in London I usually only see around 21mpg and on average get about 230ish miles out of a £42 fill up. People who use them moslty on M-ways get around high 20's low 30's mpg. Boundless, constant Vtec-ing will empty a tank in not much more than 160 miles as I discovered!
>> Edited by .Z. on Sunday 22 January 14:49
ITR is the better drivers car, but very uncompromising as already said.
Adding a slippy diff to the CTR will not knacker the EPS, but will cost considerably more than £500 unfortunately !!
The quaife diff is £500+ on its own, while the box is out, you may as well add a new (uprated) clutch and flywheel... inc labour you're looking at >£1200....
It will totally transform the CTR though...
Adding a slippy diff to the CTR will not knacker the EPS, but will cost considerably more than £500 unfortunately !!
The quaife diff is £500+ on its own, while the box is out, you may as well add a new (uprated) clutch and flywheel... inc labour you're looking at >£1200....
It will totally transform the CTR though...
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