Guess the 200hp 4WD 5dr hatchback, 65mpg, £18k brand new

[samoht]

£18k is for the top of the range model with leather interior, lane following etc etc.

Any guesses? No?

The answer is the JDM Nissan Note Aura, specifically, the G FOUR leather edition.

Uniquely, it's a (non plug-in) series hybrid with a 1.2L 82hp triple acting purely as a generator. Drive comes from a 136 PS electric motor up front, backed up by a 68 PS unit at the rear. A small battery provides the 'surge' demand for accelerating away from the lights or overtaking. Without a big EV-size battery, weight is 1370kg, so not excessive for a 4WD family hatch.

The downside of this layout is that while acceleration times will be determined by the 200hp electrical output, sustained top speed will be governed by the 82hp petrol engine. In Japan all cars are governed to 112 mph, which it could likely pretty much sustain on the flat anyway. But if ungoverned, it wouldn't have the sustained top speed you'd expect of a 200hp car. However this is arguably of marginal relevance to most buyers.

What I continue to be surprised by is that this powertrain remains limited to JDM Nissans only. Given the high power, great economy and low cost, I would have thought it would appeal in Europe too, especially in the context of dieselphobia and environmental awareness, the cost and range limitations of EVs, and fleetwide CO2 limits. I appreciate that the generally low speeds of Japanese roads probably flatter it, and new cars are cheap there, yet I can't see many people needing an average of more than 82hp on most journeys, taking into account cruising and braking time.

Thoughts welcome on why Nissan UK will only offer you a 92hp Micra for your £18k, and no-one else has followed this apparently rather appealing route.

Link https://www3.nissan.co.jp/vehicles/new/aura.html

Edited by samoht on Monday 25th April 06:19

[anonymous-user]

That's very elegant, plenty of power for full bore acceleration (which is only every in 10-15 second bursts really) and all the power you need to hold any sane legal speed. Should have farty pensioner car economy combined with really decent acceleration.#

They are planning to sell a serial hybrid version of the Qashqai in the UK, not sure if it has the power benefits of this setup though. I wonder if consumers here are just too stupid to understand it so it wouldn't sell?

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 25th April 10:53

[Jimbo.]

I believe this powertrain - or something very similar to it - will be coming to Europe in the Qashqai soo, under the e-Power label.

Do ICE-generator-wheels (I can’t recall the correct name!) powertrains ever work in passenger car application? I recall Lotus having a two-cylinder concept car, Jaguar with the gas-turbine powered C-X75 concept,, and the BMW i3 range extender, but that aside? Such an arrangement is nothing new, being used in plant and busses for years, but it never seems to have made the jump.

Edited by Jimbo. on Monday 25th April 10:56

Edited by Jimbo. on Monday 25th April 11:02

[jimmytheone]

Ribbed leather seats (for extra pleasure)?

[P700DEE]

Real life mpg?? I bet it's much less. Non plug in Hybrids are worse than ICE in my opinion, you can't create energy!

[Scootersp]

P700DEE said:

Real life mpg?? I bet it's much less. Non plug in Hybrids are worse than ICE in my opinion, you can't create energy!

I get your 'worse' and I agree but they do say "For starters, it’s much more efficient than standard ICE drivetrains while providing decent power output figures" how much remains to be seen. 1.2 engined car vs 1.2 engined car used to power the electric motors sounds like the engine and motor combo can't 'win' but then efficiency might be changed as the 1.2L is never being asked to provide drive? I'm not clever enough to work out what/how. If may be a semi fraud and 'only' provides much higher performance for the same/slightly worse mpg/fossil fuel consumption?

Either way it will be cleaner in towns? and very practical for a user without home charging potential?

[Krikkit]

P700DEE said:

Real life mpg?? I bet it's much less. Non plug in Hybrids are worse than ICE in my opinion, you can't create energy!

A Prius manages to get this kind of economy with a much less advanced drivetrain.

[Automaton]

Jimbo. said:

I believe this powertrain - or something very similar to it - will be coming to Europe in the Qashqai soo, under the e-Power label.

Do ICE-generator-wheels (I can’t recall the correct name!) powertrains ever work in passenger car application? I recall Lotus having a two-cylinder concept car, Jaguar with the gas-turbine powered C-X75 concept,, and the BMW i3 range extender, but that aside? Such an arrangement is nothing new, being used in plant and busses for years, but it never seems to have made the jump.

Edited by Jimbo. on Monday 25th April 10:56

Edited by Jimbo. on Monday 25th April 11:02

Range extender or series hybrid.
I think the vauxhall ampera/Chevrolet volt are ReX (I think that's how we acronymise it)
BMW discontinued it in the i3 and I think the Ampera is gone, so I think that says something about at least their sales success, although sales success isn't always an indicator of quality.

At least the outlander phev can do both series and parallel.

Edited by Automaton on Monday 25th April 11:34

Edited by Automaton on Monday 25th April 11:34

[resolve10]

The strangely ribbed seats bear the sheen of 100,000 miles of minicab use, and the door trims appear to be made from recycled gentlemans slippers. The fact that the matt effect wood trim (which belongs in the 90's) is the nicest part of the interior tells you everything.

As clever as the drivetrain is and as well priced as it is, I couldn't live with that interior..

[Krikkit]

resolve10 said:

The strangely ribbed seats bear the sheen of 100,000 miles of minicab use, and the door trims appear to be made from recycled gentlemans slippers. The fact that the matt effect wood trim (which belongs in the 90's) is the nicest part of the interior tells you everything.

As clever as the drivetrain is and as well priced as it is, I couldn't live with that interior..

Carry on sniffing the VAG soft-touch plastic rubbish instead.

[resolve10]

Krikkit said:

Carry on sniffing the VAG soft-touch plastic rubbish instead.

You've missed the mark unfortunately, I've never owned a VAG product and I currenrly own a Renault and a 20-year old Ford. Not the last word in interior quality.

I acknowledge most people won't have a problem with that Nissan interior, but there's just something about the look and, funnily enough as you mentioned it, smell of Asian car interiors that I can't get on with.

[Radec]

Is there a Nismo version?

[Hoofy]

Reminds me of the i3 Rex (except you can't plug it in?). Dunno why it's not offered here. Sounds like a great idea. Apart from not being able to plug it in!

[anonymous-user]

The seats are weird but I thought the interior looked very good for a car that costs sod all. Not sure who is doing better for £18k, and if you compare it to the sea of grey plastic cheap cars came with until recently it's far nicer.

[samoht]

Radec said:

Is there a Nismo version?

There is.. but only with the basic FF setup, so 135hp instead of the full 200. I actually think it's in the (distant) background in my third pic.
https://www3.nissan.co.jp/vehicles/new/aura/specif...

resolve10 said:

The strangely ribbed seats bear the sheen of 100,000 miles of minicab use, and the door trims appear to be made from recycled gentlemans slippers. The fact that the matt effect wood trim (which belongs in the 90's) is the nicest part of the interior tells you everything.

It seemed comfortable enough with a quick sit, and the ribs presumably give some ventilation. Haven't driven it anywhere though. The Leather package is optional anyway, a more conventional interior is a slightly cheaper option. Fundamentally it's a fairly affordable car though, it's no Infiniti.

P700DEE said:

Real life mpg?? I bet it's much less. Non plug in Hybrids are worse than ICE in my opinion, you can't create energy!

You're right that all the energy comes from burning petrol, and you can't create energy. What you can do however is stop wasting half of it, for example
- use regen braking rather than friction brakes
- keep the engine at the most efficient rpm for the required power at all times
- use a small engine backed up with a small battery for peak power, rather than a larger engine with associated heat, friction and pumping losses, or a turbo that has to run rich on boost
- leave the engine shut off when queueing in traffic or parking

all these efficiencies add up to a significantly more efficient drive, certainly compared to say a 1.6T four-pot with the same acceleration. This model isn't in the rental fleets yet, but I rented the previous-gen ePower Note a few years back and was impressed by how economical it was, so I think it does work out decently well on the road.

Hoofy said:

Reminds me of the i3 Rex (except you can't plug it in?). Dunno why it's not offered here. Sounds like a great idea. Apart from not being able to plug it in!

For plugging it in to be useful, you need a charger available, and a battery big enough for the charged energy to cover a meaningful proportion of usage. At which point the question arises, why not go the whole hog with a full size battery and no ICE.

This concept is a car that can be used just like a petrol car, including by owners without home charging, but with a much better combination of power and economy, and the smoothness of motion of an EV. It's also cheaper and lighter, due to the small battery, than range-extended EVs.

I don't think this is a long-term answer, but it strikes me as a really good fit as a bridging tech for the next 5-10 years until EVs and EV charging are fit for every motorist.

Jimbo. said:

I believe this powertrain - or something very similar to it - will be coming to Europe in the Qashqai soo, under the e-Power label.

Qashqai ePower is coming 'in 2022' according to https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/qas...
Unsure why it's taking them so long, as it's been over five years since its JDM debut, but better late than never IMHO.

[resolve10]

samoht said:

It seemed comfortable enough with a quick sit, and the ribs presumably give some ventilation. Haven't driven it anywhere though. The Leather package is optional anyway, a more conventional interior is a slightly cheaper option. Fundamentally it's a fairly affordable car though, it's no Infiniti.

Fair comment, I hadn't really factored that in. Having said that it would probably be a £25k car in the UK wouldn't it?

I love the styling of the Nismo one, looks great

[Hoofy]

samoht said:

Hoofy said:

Reminds me of the i3 Rex (except you can't plug it in?). Dunno why it's not offered here. Sounds like a great idea. Apart from not being able to plug it in!

For plugging it in to be useful, you need a charger available, and a battery big enough for the charged energy to cover a meaningful proportion of usage. At which point the question arises, why not go the whole hog with a full size battery and no ICE.

This concept is a car that can be used just like a petrol car, including by owners without home charging, but with a much better combination of power and economy, and the smoothness of motion of an EV. It's also cheaper and lighter, due to the small battery, than range-extended EVs.

I don't think this is a long-term answer, but it strikes me as a really good fit as a bridging tech for the next 5-10 years until EVs and EV charging are fit for every motorist.

The i3 Rex is the perfect bridge. The question you asked doesn't arise because I don't want to rely purely on having to charge it. My phone had 20% charge yesterday morning...

[Benmac]

Complete aside but the pics look to have been taken in and just outside the Nissan offices with a little museum / showroom beneath them in Minato Mirai in Yokohama. Used to visit a client with work just round the corner occasionally and enjoy popping in when I was there. There were always a few interesting things in there such as some sort of JDM lunacy (Nismo people carrier for example), race cars, classics or prototypes.

[TWPC]

Automaton said:

Jimbo. said:

I believe this powertrain - or something very similar to it - will be coming to Europe in the Qashqai soo, under the e-Power label.

Do ICE-generator-wheels (I can’t recall the correct name!) powertrains ever work in passenger car application? I recall Lotus having a two-cylinder concept car, Jaguar with the gas-turbine powered C-X75 concept,, and the BMW i3 range extender, but that aside? Such an arrangement is nothing new, being used in plant and busses for years, but it never seems to have made the jump.

Edited by Jimbo. on Monday 25th April 10:56

Edited by Jimbo. on Monday 25th April 11:02

Range extender or series hybrid.
I think the vauxhall ampera/Chevrolet volt are ReX (I think that's how we acronymise it)
BMW discontinued it in the i3 and I think the Ampera is gone, so I think that says something about at least their sales success, although sales success isn't always an indicator of quality.

At least the outlander phev can do both series and parallel.

Edited by Automaton on Monday 25th April 11:34

Edited by Automaton on Monday 25th April 11:34

The Honda hybrid system in the CRV, HRV and Jazz (i-MMD) uses its 2.0 litre ICE as a generator, though at high speeds it is also able to drive the wheels directly.
The battery capacity is low (1.4kWh) so it recharges quickly (via deceleration or charging by the ICE) but has enough oomph to launch and drive the car at low speeds. At medium speeds the ICE turns on and drives the electric motors which drive the wheels. There is also a single speed transmission for the ICE so that at high speeds (A-roads and motorways), the electric motor switches off, the transmission engages and the ICE drives the wheels.

I have never driven one but believe that the theory is that the electric motors are most suited to variable and low speed running while the ICE is more efficient for high, constant speed running. For some reason many in the car press have described the transmission as a CVT when it isn't.

Can anyone with experience comment on what it is like to drive? And how good/bad is the fuel consumption?

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

the Nissan Note and Aura remain JDM or Asia Pacific only due to continued meddlesome Renault bks.

As you may remember the old Note was a reasonable seller in the UK, loved by the elderly for its auto box and practicality, it was also relatively cheap. Then the new Micra came along based on the Clio floor plan, and that had to be build at the Flijn factory in France due to it being under utilised and facing closure ( Renault management don't like making people redundant because it usually ends up with the CEO being shot). Also French govt intervention strong armed a slightly rudderless and distant Japanese Management into having the car built there. The only (very slight) problem was in fact two problems, it was very expensive to produce ( the car cost more out of the factory than the Qashqai did out of Sunderland 16k OOG v 11k OOG)) and the workforce was largely immigrant and due to some odd French law they had to be replaced every 6 months. This led to significant product quality issues ( eg reliability) as just as the work force got competent at building the car, they were sacked. All good so far.

So in order to offset this potentially terminal issue for the Micra, Nissan Japan decided that the Note should be discontinued in the UK and Europe. The thinking being that all those old Note drivers would just buy the Micra ( in fact they all bought Honda Jazzes). The Micra also sold at a loss in Europe, in some part due to the cost of production. And that has led in part to Nissan's decreasing vehicle range in the UK ( that and emissions issues).

So we don't get the Note/Aura or the mild hybrid. Although as another posted stated this is coming in the Qashqai and Juke. Essentially it extends the range of the fuel tank by about 40 %. Close to 1000 miles out of 40 litres isn't bad at all.

It is a funky car that would do well here, especially in London and other Climate Nazi cities but it's not going to happen. Believe me when I tell you that the question has been asked.

Nissan's will be rebadged Renaults in future - let's see how that goes.

As for Nismo Aura. Even though you can import the standard Aura ( and I'd love to just for uniqueness) the Nismo can't be imported due to Type approval issues with the DVLA ( post production modified) YOU can get around it by getting the relevant TDN, but as yet no one has worked out how to present that to the DVLA as it needs to be on the C of C, which Nissan ( uniquely) won't provide.

I am worried about the future of Nissan ( and other Jap manufacturers in the EU). They can't seem to make any money.